Eye of the Tiger: The Tidjane Salaun Thread

[KembaWalker]

i swear he's actually regressing as the season goes on, and the starting point was really really really low

preseason Salaun was pretty sick tbf
Might be the best stretch he ever has with this org lol

[Walt Cronkite]

It's not worth engaging but I can't help myself, so I'll point out that in a road win last night, here were the contributions of the nearly 24 year old finished product rookie and the 19.5 year old developmental project:

Knecht 3 pts 1-5 fg (1-4 3p) 5 TR (1or) 1 stl, 1to, 1pf -16 in 13 mp
Salaun 3pts 1-5 fg (1-2 3p) 6TR (2or) 1 stl, 1to, 0pf -3 in 18 mp

Don't let the win get in the way of finding something to bellyache over. Rookies make rookie mistakes, Tiddy sure is guilty of that, but he had a more positive contribution to his team than the guy a lot of you wanted in his place.

I also think EC let something slip a few weeks ago when he said Tidjane's english was a work in progress. He quickly corrected and did the thing where he said how much better his french is than his own, but I think it's an under considered factor in Tiddy looking more lost when he is on the court without Moussa. I don't understand everything LaMelo says all the time and english is my first language.

[MasterIchiro]

It's not worth engaging but I can't help myself, so I'll point out that in a road win last night, here were the contributions of the nearly 24 year old finished product rookie and the 19.5 year old developmental project:

Knecht 3 pts 1-5 fg (1-4 3p) 5 TR (1or) 1 stl, 1to, 1pf -16 in 13 mp
Salaun 3pts 1-5 fg (1-2 3p) 6TR (2or) 1 stl, 1to, 0pf -3 in 18 mp

Don't let the win get in the way of finding something to bellyache over. Rookies make rookie mistakes, Tiddy sure is guilty of that, but he had a more positive contribution to his team than the guy a lot of you wanted in his place.

I also think EC let something slip a few weeks ago when he said Tidjane's english was a work in progress. He quickly corrected and did the thing where he said how much better his french is than his own, but I think it's an under considered factor in Tiddy looking more lost when he is on the court without Moussa. I don't understand everything LaMelo says all the time and english is my first language.

Well body language is readable and translatable. Salaün's body language is screaming, "take me off the court. I don't belong here!"

We all have a different eye test.

The man makes over 7 million dollars. Surely his agency provides a translator.

[EmpireFalls]

At some point I’d just like to see him look like he can possibly play the game of basketball, that’s really my only standard

[Walt Cronkite]

Translator on the court is Moussa, otherwise he's on his own, that's the point.

What did Knecht's body language scream?

[HornetJail]

At some point I’d just like to see him look like he can possibly play the game of basketball, that’s really my only standard

He really needed like 2-3 more years in Europe to just learn the basics of the game. I don't see how it happens for him on his rookie contract.

[KembaWalker]

At some point I’d just like to see him look like he can possibly play the game of basketball, that’s really my only standard

He really needed like 2-3 more years in Europe to just learn the basics of the game. I don't see how it happens for him on his rookie contract.

But why does he need that time? This isn’t some raw African prospect that didn’t touch a ball till he was 15. His parents were players, his sister is a pro and he came up through the standard French high level prospect pipeline. I don’t get what basics he could pick up in 2 years that he couldn’t have picked up in the last 4. He isn’t gonna do some super secret professional drills and suddenly have some breakthrough at age 22 where he just learns how to dribble competently or learn what a good shot is.

I don’t wanna write the kid off but Salauns future will be secured by taking things out of his game not adding them on. He simply has to shoot a million shots until he can hit catch and shoot 3s at 38% at his height and grab some boards. That’s his game

[yosemiteben]

I don’t wanna write the kid off but Salauns future will be secured by taking things out of his game not adding them on. He simply has to shoot a million shots until he can hit catch and shoot 3s at 38% at his height and grab some boards. That’s his game

I definitely agree that as things sit right now, it appears that C&S 3s and rebounding are the building blocks for his role going forward, and I'd add defensive switchability.

I'm not sure I agree that things can't be added to a 19 year olds game, but I agree that he has elements that he can build on that will make him rotation worthy long term.

[fatlever]

Right, if that three point shot doesn't become at least league average In the next two years, he becomes pretty unplayable pretty quickly under a real functioning team. There's just no way this dude adds to his game - dribble drives, passing instincts, post up, finishing at rim, mid range game. His game 100 percent is going to be... be big and physical, hustle, rebound, play defense and make corner threes. That's it. low ceiling. But valuable plug and play hybrid big 5th starter type, but only if he can get there in terms of the three point shooting and defensive awareness.

[SWedd523]

It's not worth engaging but I can't help myself, so I'll point out that in a road win last night, here were the contributions of the nearly 24 year old finished product rookie and the 19.5 year old developmental project:

Knecht 3 pts 1-5 fg (1-4 3p) 5 TR (1or) 1 stl, 1to, 1pf -16 in 13 mp
Salaun 3pts 1-5 fg (1-2 3p) 6TR (2or) 1 stl, 1to, 0pf -3 in 18 mp

Don't let the win get in the way of finding something to bellyache over. Rookies make rookie mistakes, Tiddy sure is guilty of that, but he had a more positive contribution to his team than the guy a lot of you wanted in his place.

I also think EC let something slip a few weeks ago when he said Tidjane's english was a work in progress. He quickly corrected and did the thing where he said how much better his french is than his own, but I think it's an under considered factor in Tiddy looking more lost when he is on the court without Moussa. I don't understand everything LaMelo says all the time and english is my first language.

I don't really understand what one has to do with the other.

They can both be struggling in a vacuum. Knecht playing poorly (or not) has no bearing whatsoever on Tiddy playing poorly.

There are 19yo unfinished products out there playing much better than Tiddy and 19yos who have been worse. None of that matters.

Look at him in a vacuum. He sucks.

It's okay to say that.

The conversation is can he improve?

What are his splits month over month so far? I'd be interested to see if there's any improvement there or not because one would expect more growth out of a raw kid than a finished product.

[Walt Cronkite]

I don't really understand what one has to do with the other.

They can both be struggling in a vacuum. Knecht playing poorly (or not) has no bearing whatsoever on Tiddy playing poorly.

There are 19yo unfinished products out there playing much better than Tiddy and 19yos who have been worse. None of that matters.

Look at him in a vacuum. He sucks.

It's okay to say that.

The conversation is can he improve?

What are his splits month over month so far? I'd be interested to see if there's any improvement there or not because one would expect more growth out of a raw kid than a finished product.

Wanted to put the h2h performance since it just happened and Dalton is one of the two or three guys we might've "missed out" on that were available with the Salaun selection. They can both struggle or not, but if the players had those same performances last night but their teams were swapped, there would be hand wringing that the raw french player just outplayed our walking bucket. Grass is always greener.

Here are Salaun's splits:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/salauti01/splits/2025
Looks trending up based on 3pt%, TS%, ORtng. Fg% down, but hes WAY up on FTA, so he's getting fouled on those misses. Drtng stable so improvements not at the cost of defensive performance.

Seems like improvement, which matches my eye test, but we all have our biases. My own is that I want this kid to succeed because I like the Hornets and they are better if he works out than if he doesn't and he seems like a nice kid that will run through the wall if you tell him to and I didn't have an investment in any of the other guys under consideration and figured he would take time to mold.

[HornetJail]

At some point I’d just like to see him look like he can possibly play the game of basketball, that’s really my only standard

He really needed like 2-3 more years in Europe to just learn the basics of the game. I don't see how it happens for him on his rookie contract.

But why does he need that time? This isn’t some raw African prospect that didn’t touch a ball till he was 15. His parents were players, his sister is a pro and he came up through the standard French high level prospect pipeline. I don’t get what basics he could pick up in 2 years that he couldn’t have picked up in the last 4. He isn’t gonna do some super secret professional drills and suddenly have some breakthrough at age 22 where he just learns how to dribble competently or learn what a good shot is.

I don’t wanna write the kid off but Salauns future will be secured by taking things out of his game not adding them on. He simply has to shoot a million shots until he can hit catch and shoot 3s at 38% at his height and grab some boards. That’s his game

Because simply not everyone is ready for it at 18.

He does need to be playing basketball somewhere but is just totally overmatched at this level and keeps digging his own grave with every passing game.

He could get reps being glued to the D-League and learn enough but for how many years?

It was just a really really really bad move for us or any other team, to trust him with a high draft pick. I really want to know what they say in workouts or film because it's one of the least comprehensible draft picks I've ever seen in 20+ years following the league. He's like the stereotypical 2nd round prospect with decent physical tools that came in three years too early... except he was drafted 6th.

[amcoolio]

Well said. He likely won't be ready for rotation minutes until his rookie contract is over.

I know I justified the pick at the time, noting his rapid improvement in the French league. But we haven't seen improvement yet. I just don't think this team really needed to take the 1 in 50 shot on a player like this with the current makeup of the roster and the damaged psyche of the fanbase. I guess we can chalk it up to this draft being really really bad. But this team can't afford to miss anymore

[luciano-davidwesley]

It's not worth engaging but I can't help myself, so I'll point out that in a road win last night, here were the contributions of the nearly 24 year old finished product rookie and the 19.5 year old developmental project:

Knecht 3 pts 1-5 fg (1-4 3p) 5 TR (1or) 1 stl, 1to, 1pf -16 in 13 mp
Salaun 3pts 1-5 fg (1-2 3p) 6TR (2or) 1 stl, 1to, 0pf -3 in 18 mp

Don't let the win get in the way of finding something to bellyache over. Rookies make rookie mistakes, Tiddy sure is guilty of that, but he had a more positive contribution to his team than the guy a lot of you wanted in his place.

I also think EC let something slip a few weeks ago when he said Tidjane's english was a work in progress. He quickly corrected and did the thing where he said how much better his french is than his own, but I think it's an under considered factor in Tiddy looking more lost when he is on the court without Moussa. I don't understand everything LaMelo says all the time and english is my first language.

I don't really understand what one has to do with the other.

They can both be struggling in a vacuum. Knecht playing poorly (or not) has no bearing whatsoever on Tiddy playing poorly.

There are 19yo unfinished products out there playing much better than Tiddy and 19yos who have been worse. None of that matters.

Look at him in a vacuum. He sucks.

It's okay to say that.

The conversation is can he improve?

What are his splits month over month so far? I'd be interested to see if there's any improvement there or not because one would expect more growth out of a raw kid than a finished product.

I generally agree here but to expect consistent improvement every month is unrealistic.

Development is usually not linear. Some guys improve rapidly at times and plateau for periods at other times.

Then there's the 25 year old late bloomers. Charting and predicting player development is extremely difficult.

[EmpireFalls]

Right, if that three point shot doesn't become at least league average In the next two years, he becomes pretty unplayable pretty quickly under a real functioning team. There's just no way this dude adds to his game - dribble drives, passing instincts, post up, finishing at rim, mid range game. His game 100 percent is going to be... be big and physical, hustle, rebound, play defense and make corner threes. That's it. low ceiling. But valuable plug and play hybrid big 5th starter type, but only if he can get there in terms of the three point shooting and defensive awareness.

Thanks so much for articulating this concisely.

My pushback has always been, what’s the point of investing all this draft capital and playing time in someone whose ceiling is that low? What’s the payoff for all this development? As you said his skillset caps out at like a 5th starter type, which is the easiest player to replace. You can find those guys in free agency or get them for a couple seconds at the deadline.

And yet, we somehow convinced ourselves that the right move was to draft the low floor low ceiling guy at #6 overall. I will never understand it.

[KembaWalker]

I still think if we were prepared to punt the rebuild back years by trading Mark for a distant first we should have done the same thing with the draft pick like the Spurs did. We’d be so much better off with a distant unprotected first and a swap or whatever that trade was with a Lore-ARod Wolves than we are with Salaun

[fatlever]

The chances of this working out for Jeff Peterson are extremely low. The hit rate on someone like him was always going to be extremely low percentage. We'll be able to backseat armchair this for the next five years playing what if. It was a move that shocked all of us at the time. To me it never made sense to do a swing for the fences type pick as your first pick as the new GM on a team desperate for actual MBA players that could complement the core.

The assumption is that Jeff probably over bought into his ability to shoot threes. the mechanics are ok but the results have always been bad. The other assumption is that Jeff was trying to build a new culture on the team full of guys that would run through a brick wall. There are plenty of other ways to do this without wasting high draft pick on this type of move. Example being picking up moose and bringing in guys like okogie Mid season.

I think all of us could probably name 10 other rookies in this draft that we would take right now over him if we had the Chance.

The real move that probably should have been made on draft night was either trading up trading back or trading out of the draft completely.

But anyway, here we are. Let's just hope and pray that by his third year he can at least be a functional 3D forward.

He needs to go back to Greensboro as soon as okogie is healthy.

[JustBuzzin]

Jeff has no vision look at who he hired as HC and look at who he drafted.

He came from the Hawks who haven't won jack. He hired his buddy. His message is let's suck for 5 years and get the success later down the line.

Nah I don't have 5 years Mr. Peterson. Pack your ish and hit the door jack!

[yosemiteben]

He came from the Hawks who haven't won jack.

No he didn't, he came from the Nets.

He also hired a head coach that had just won a title as top assistant and who before that was top assistant with a perennial contender.

I don't see any traction in arguing that Lee was a bad hire.

[JustBuzzin]

He came from the Hawks who haven't won jack.

No he didn't, he came from the Nets.

He also hired a head coach that had just won a title as top assistant and who before that was top assistant with a perennial contender.

I don't see any traction in arguing that Lee was a bad hire.

What has Lee brought to this offense?