Defensive Reasons - The PJ Hairston Thread

RevolDas · Post #1141 » by **RevolDas** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:35 am

2/8 FG%, 5 Points, 3 boards, 2 assists, 3 fouls in 25 mins.

I kinda understand the reason to keep the J & J on the bench to provide extra fire power since the 1st unit already have Kemba/Lamb/Al, but both Lin and Lamb plays less them than PJ did. That doesn't make sense to me.

BobsBuddy · Post #1142 » by **BobsBuddy** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:50 pm

Why we keep PJ when we could trade him for a pure 3 is beyond me?
6624058 PJ for Early NYK.... Jackson would love to have PJ in the Triangle.
Early at least has his head on straight and is teachable.... :nod:

LamarMatic7 · Post #1143 » by **LamarMatic7** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:38 pm

BlackOutBuzz wrote:
LamarMatic7 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:and you'll have the opportunity to earn a nice contract next summer. It's all on you. Let's see what you can do with this opportunity."

The weird part is that such a strategy is basically a lose-lose for us. Either he continues to be mediocre or he breaks out and we lose him during the summer, when we could have had him for two more years on a petty salary.

A first round pick's earning potential - at least the first 4 years - is capped the second he is drafted. Most rookies play out their rookie-scale deal, but even those that don't are bound to the amounts relative to their draft spot until they reach year 5.

For instance: Austin Rivers. The Pelicans declined Rivers' fourth year option, which was just over $3.1M, before a couple trades left Austin on his dad's team. The Clippers then wanted to keep Austin, but by rule weren't able to overturn New Orleans' decision to decline the fourth year. In addition, any new contract the two sides came up with could not exceed in the first year what he would've made on that 4th year had his option been exercised.

So this summer they agreed to a 2-year deal (the second a player option) starting at that same amount - $3.1M - which has always been the most he could make in the 2015-16 season, ever since he was taken 10th overall on draft day 2012.

As this pertains to PJ, Hairston's option amount was only $1.25M, so he won't be breaking the bank anytime soon. But still, that's about $270K better than the minimum for a third year player. So in that sense he does have something to play for. Wouldn't be surprised to see us re-offer him that at year's end should he continue to start for us.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I knew the part about us not being able to exceed Hairston's original option amount for years three and four. That's why I called it a lose-lose for us since the part I didn't know was that other teams couldn't exceed it as well.

Great insight, BlackOutBuzz! Thanks!

BlackOutBuzz · Post #1144 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:02 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:
BlackOutBuzz wrote:
LamarMatic7 wrote:The weird part is that such a strategy is basically a lose-lose for us. Either he continues to be mediocre or he breaks out and we lose him during the summer, when we could have had him for two more years on a petty salary.

A first round pick's earning potential - at least the first 4 years - is capped the second he is drafted. Most rookies play out their rookie-scale deal, but even those that don't are bound to the amounts relative to their draft spot until they reach year 5.

For instance: Austin Rivers. The Pelicans declined Rivers' fourth year option, which was just over $3.1M, before a couple trades left Austin on his dad's team. The Clippers then wanted to keep Austin, but by rule weren't able to overturn New Orleans' decision to decline the fourth year. In addition, any new contract the two sides came up with could not exceed in the first year what he would've made on that 4th year had his option been exercised.

So this summer they agreed to a 2-year deal (the second a player option) starting at that same amount - $3.1M - which has always been the most he could make in the 2015-16 season, ever since he was taken 10th overall on draft day 2012.

As this pertains to PJ, Hairston's option amount was only $1.25M, so he won't be breaking the bank anytime soon. But still, that's about $270K better than the minimum for a third year player. So in that sense he does have something to play for. Wouldn't be surprised to see us re-offer him that at year's end should he continue to start for us.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I knew the part about us not being able to exceed Hairston's original option amount for years three and four. That's why I called it a lose-lose for us since the part I didn't know was that other teams couldn't exceed it as well.

Great insight, BlackOutBuzz! Thanks!

Honestly that seems to be an ambiguous point in the CBA. It seems to address the team that declines the option, but doesn't really specify whether other teams have the ability to exceed the amount either. Some Clippers writers seemed to think Rivers may get more than his would be option since it was the Pelicans that declined the option, not LA. In the end, though, he got the exact amount. So I'm sure the "spirit of the rule" is that one can't exceed their option amount - even with another team - even if the CBA doesn't explicitly spell it out.

Maybe I'll dig to see if there are any other examples of this.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Braggins · Post #1145 » by **Braggins** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:21 am

How did PJ shoot 37% from 3 in the d-league? Has he always sucked at shooting but just had a hot d-league run, or has he actually been regressing as a shooter? Is it a mental thing? His shot looks nice and he gets it off quickly. Last season I was fairly confident in his shot when he would take good looks, but now he pretty much only shoots open 3s and he still has a horrible percentage and half his shots brick horribly. Apparently hes a solid defender and finisher at the rim now, though? Idk, this dude just doesnt make any sense to me.

Post #1146 » by **JDR720** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:30 am

he was a good shooter at UNC too. im not sure, it could be mental, something off with his form or he just isn't in rhythm

his dx video (shooting is around the 2:30 mark), how is his form now compared to then? i feel like he has some inconsistencies in his form.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXN7xsfg78Y[/youtube]

i want us to put him on the D-league team to see if he can refind his shot.

i think someone posted that he is shooting 40% on threes that aren't kemba passes. so, just dont let kemba pass to him? lol

Post #1147 » by **yosemiteben** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:41 am

He has never played for a disciplined coach or needed to apply much effort on the defensive end and he's always been a volume shooter, so his role in the league is totally different from what got him here.

I keep hoping that that shot will start falling.

DY_nasty · Post #1148 » by **DY_nasty** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:04 am

Kinda funny how PJ Hairston is turning into Raja Bell instead of a legit scoring option

Liver_Pooty · Post #1149 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:47 am

Please be a fast healer MKG.

Zappa012 · Post #1150 » by **Zappa012** » Sun Dec 6, 2015 2:38 am

i feel like he's a "nothing to lose" scorer, better off the bench.

To me the ideal situation is: SG-Lamb SF-Batum and Hairston with the actual role of Jeremy off the bench.

That Clifford guy should make a try at least.

ChokeFasncists · Post #1151 » by **ChokeFasncists** » Mon Dec 7, 2015 1:27 am

Dang, the guy is shooting 90% FT but he never shoots a midrange. For the last ten games, he is 27%FG 19%3pt. I thought he would get better but this just doesn't cut it.

RevolDas · Post #1152 » by **RevolDas** » Mon Dec 7, 2015 3:39 am

Against the Bulls on Saturday he was 0/3 from the field and all 3 are 3 pointers, 0 FT, 0 board, 0 assist, 1 steal, 1 TO in almost 20 mins on the court. And that's it. It's not that he plays really bad but it's more like he's invisible out there for 20 mins. In fact out of the 10 players who got play time that game he's the only one who scored 0 points. Even Hansbrough who plays only 3:40 got 2 points.

So far this season he has started all 16 games, averages 16.8 mins with 30.9 FG%, 23.4 3PFG%, 2.1 boards, 0.7 assist, 0.3 steal, 0.3 block, 0.4 TO, and 3.9 points. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the starting SG of Charlotte Hornets.

euphorbus · Post #1153 » by **euphorbus** » Mon Dec 7, 2015 12:42 pm

Some have suggested that Hairston is a placeholder for Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. It could also be that he is a placeholder for an incoming small forward who will only be available on December 15, when 2015 free agents can be traded. The trade may already be in place. Just speculation, but you never know.

I checked his defensive stats: Hairston is last in DefRtg, and last among rotation players in Defensive Win Share, as well as Defensive +/-. I am not saying he is a poor player, only that as a second-year pro, he has been thrust into, or entrusted with, a starting role he cannot handle.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHO/2016.html

Bence · Post #1154 » by **Bence** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 7:37 am

Just on a footnote: it's such a shame that PJ changed his beard-style. Now it's harder for me to call him the Amish Pineapple like I used to this season.

kinein · Post #1155 » by **kinein** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 8:13 am

yosemiteben wrote:He has never played for a disciplined coach or needed to apply much effort on the defensive end and he's always been a volume shooter, so his role in the league is totally different from what got him here.

I keep hoping that that shot will start falling.

The days of volume shooters being the alphas is over.

I think Steph Curry, and others like the rookie Zingis w/ the knicks have demonstrated that your volume, will never beat the efficient shooters, and teamplay/sharing the ball - feeding off each other, and feeding the hot hand.

In a different era, a different time, with different rules - pre-internet.

Post #1156 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 2:02 pm

kinein wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:He has never played for a disciplined coach or needed to apply much effort on the defensive end and he's always been a volume shooter, so his role in the league is totally different from what got him here.

I keep hoping that that shot will start falling.

The days of volume shooters being the alphas is over.

I think Steph Curry, and others like the rookie Zingis w/ the knicks have demonstrated that your volume, will never beat the efficient shooters, and teamplay/sharing the ball - feeding off each other, and feeding the hot hand.

In a different era, a different time, with different rules - pre-internet.

I don't really understand your point. Steph and Kristaps are both primary scoring options for their teams. PJ would love to have 12 FGAs per game, that's just not his role.

Zappa012 · Post #1157 » by **Zappa012** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 3:33 pm

i don't understand really well advanced stats (in this case defRtg and DefWinShares), but this guy said: " the Hornets score 113.1 points and give up 99.9 per 100 possessions when he plays"

Maybe because he strechtes the floor even by shooting poorly?

http://www.todaysfastbreak.com/nba-east/southeast/charlotte-hornets/making-sense-charlotte-hornets-p-j-hairston/

Post #1158 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 3:41 pm

Zappa012 wrote:i don't understand really well advanced stats (in this case defRtg and DefWinShares), but this guy said: " the Hornets score 113.1 points and give up 99.9 per 100 possessions when he plays"

Maybe because he strechtes the floor even by shooting poorly?

http://www.todaysfastbreak.com/nba-east/southeast/charlotte-hornets/making-sense-charlotte-hornets-p-j-hairston/

That article is about a month old. His current stats:

On - 105.9 ORTG, 101.9 DRTG (4.1 net rating)
Off - 103.1 ORTG, 98.2 DRTG (4.9 net rating)

Snidely FC · Post #1159 » by **Snidely FC** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 9:05 pm

I don't mind PJ starting and playing 15 mins a game. He has terrific size for a wing, and he is only 22.

There seems to be a lot of PJ is in Lamb's way, the same as Kemba is in Lin's way. People have their favorites. I think in a star-less system like CHA the team wins with depth. This team needs contributions from PJ, Lamb, Kemba and Lin. We need them all.

Other people complain this team can't develop young players. Isn't that what they are doing with PJ? The Spurs do this with players. They give them minutes in a well defined role. Guys like Danny Green, Tiago Splitter, Paddy Mills and Aaron Baynes, go from being no names to people asking how they got to be so good.

Last year I would guess Clifford told PJ his role was to stretch the floor. When he touched the ball it went up. This year PJs role is to play defense like a linebacker and bust screens. Shoot only within the flow and when open. He expends a ton of effort on the defensive side and rushes his shot on offense. When or if his offense slows down he can be a valuable commodity. But you get there with playing time. He is a second year pro. Most young draft picks take several years til you know what you got. Before he got in foul trouble vs DET he hit some shots and you begin to see how he can end up an asset. He's only 22. I think people are being impatient.

steady · Post #1160 » by **steady** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 9:57 pm

Snidely - I like your posts, including this one, so this is just to offer an alternative view.

I just think the chances of the Hornets resigning PJ is very slim. If they had wanted to do that, they would have taken the extension. Also while there may be room on the roster for him this year, it is very hard to see him getting minutes when MKG comes back.

So for me -- I would lean on side of exploring whether PJ could be eased out of starting line up -- because Hornets should be thinking about developing a group of guys who are going to be around long term. Is PJ going to be here long term? I would say no, based on declining the extension. In that case, is it needed in order to fill a hole that the roster has? That might have seemed true early in the season, after MKG went down. But I am not sure if that is the case anymore. Particularly when Cody starts, and the starters are much better defensively than they are with Jefferson.

And, if they don't need him, why are they giving valuable PT to a player who will likely not be here next year, and who can just walk this summer. Why have him be the one developing chemistry with Batum and Kemba and other core pieces? Play him on a selective basis - but having him start every game ...