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Holland is also a capable defender from what I've read and seen. I think he has Thompson twins, whitmore potential. If he turns out to be a star like big star his game is kinda jaylen eque. Maybe marrion. He mirrors those athletes well and does alot of the same things. He's a slasher wing with big athleticism maybe even a crash type player.

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MugzZo wrote:Holland is also a capable defender from what I've read and seen. I think he has Thompson twins, whitmore potential. If he turns out to be a star like big star his game is kinda jaylen eque. Maybe marrion. He mirrors those athletes well and does alot of the same things. He's a slasher wing with big athleticism maybe even a crash type player.

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The measurements are so important to me

If he’s a legit 6’8” or at least 6’7” with a 6’9” wingspan and he weighs in with a healthy weight then that’s a legit wing and someone who I’m excited to pick

If, as I’m concerned about, he is barely 6’6” or even worse 6’5” barefoot without a great wingspan, then the lack of shooting is a much bigger concern.

EmpireFalls wrote:

MugzZo wrote:Holland is also a capable defender from what I've read and seen. I think he has Thompson twins, whitmore potential. If he turns out to be a star like big star his game is kinda jaylen eque. Maybe marrion. He mirrors those athletes well and does alot of the same things. He's a slasher wing with big athleticism maybe even a crash type player.

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The measurements are so important to me

If he’s a legit 6’8” or at least 6’7” with a 6’9” wingspan and he weighs in with a healthy weight then that’s a legit wing and someone who I’m excited to pick

If, as I’m concerned about, he is barely 6’6” or even worse 6’5” barefoot without a great wingspan, then the lack of shooting is a much bigger concern.

Castle is listed at 6'6 and looks a good bit shorter than Holland by what they look like on the court. I think Holland is the modern 6'7 in terms of he's 6'5 1/2 or over barefoot.

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looking at some footage it looks like Holland tries to play a bit like Crash, have to like that. His shot is no where near as ugly as MKG's, so I wouldn't hate the pick.

In this crap shoot of a draft, getting an energetic defender who isnt afraid of hard work isn't a terrible choice. Hopefully he would grow into a better Cody

Thought experiment for the injury replacement crew.
ie: Melo, Mark

Let's say we draft Clingan because we are worried about Mark, but Melo gets hurt. Does Clingan being there really do a lot for us?

Opposite side, let's say we draft Topic because we are worried about Melo, but Mark gets hurt. Does Topic being there help?

Essentially which is better? No Melo, but Mark and Clingan. or No Mark, but Melo and Topic.

We have the assets to find a Mark replacement, or someone that can at least be a solid if not ideal replacement. We can't realistically trade for a LaMelo replacement unless we strike gold on a talented but overlooked player (like Nash back in the day).

So yeah I'm a big NO on using our pick on Clingan. I wouldn't hate drafting Topic because finding a primary playmaker is one of the hardest things to do. It wouldn't be a bad thing at all to have him AND a healthy LaMelo.

LofJ wrote:We have the assets to find a Mark replacement, or someone that can at least be a solid if not ideal replacement. We can't realistically trade for a LaMelo replacement unless we strike gold on a talented but overlooked player (like Nash back in the day).

So yeah I'm a big NO on using our pick on Clingan. I wouldn't hate drafting Topic because finding a primary playmaker is one of the hardest things to do. It wouldn't be a bad thing at all to have him AND a healthy LaMelo.

I also think Topic is a just a really good scorer and probably underrated as a shooter.

we're tied with Portland for the 3rd pick...amy idea of how they break the tie?

NMBSurfin wrote:we're tied with Portland for the 3rd pick...amy idea of how they break the tie?

Doesn't really matter, top 4 have same odds. San Antonio is the lottery loser by losing the last game. Not that it matters, they are always lucky in the draft

I would be happy with Sarr, ZR, Topic, or Holland.
I'd rank it 1. Topic, 2. ZR, 3. Sarr, 4. Holland.

Anyone else we draft will likely will be in the G-league the majority of the year next year (Clingan might play with an injury, possible he is Walker Kessler at the most) so its hard for me to get excited about them. Honestly think NSJ is a lottery pick this year, that's how horrid this draft is

Of course there will be the random superstar in the 10-40 range of this draft, but that's pure luck so it doesn't really matter

amcoolio wrote:

NMBSurfin wrote:we're tied with Portland for the 3rd pick...amy idea of how they break the tie?

Doesn't really matter, top 4 have same odds. San Antonio is the lottery loser by losing the last game. Not that it matters, they are always lucky in the draft

Wait what?

Are you saying the top 4 teams all have the same odds in the draft?

So basically we have the same odds as Detroit of winning the #1 pick. I guess that's a good thing. Knowing the NBA they will likely reward us the #1 pick in a very weak draft smh.

JustBuzzin wrote:

amcoolio wrote:

NMBSurfin wrote:we're tied with Portland for the 3rd pick...amy idea of how they break the tie?

Doesn't really matter, top 4 have same odds. San Antonio is the lottery loser by losing the last game. Not that it matters, they are always lucky in the draft

Wait what?

Are you saying the top 4 teams all have the same odds in the draft?

So basically we have the same odds as Detroit of winning the #1 pick. I guess that's a good thing. Knowing the NBA they will likely reward us the #1 pick in a very weak draft smh.

Pistons and Wizards have 14.0%, Portland and Charlotte have 13.3%. All four have roughly 50% at a top 4 pick. They flattened the odds of the top 4 a few years ago, no longer does the worst record have 25%

If this draft is as bad as people think it is. Taking a player with a definite NBA skill would be wise.

Shooting - Reed, Knecht
Passing - Topic
Defense - Castle, Holland
Rebounding - Edey, Clingan

Only 2-3 of those guys are potential top 5 picks.

If there is a draft to trade down a few picks, this is it.

amcoolio wrote:

JustBuzzin wrote:

amcoolio wrote:
Doesn't really matter, top 4 have same odds. San Antonio is the lottery loser by losing the last game. Not that it matters, they are always lucky in the draft

Wait what?

Are you saying the top 4 teams all have the same odds in the draft?

So basically we have the same odds as Detroit of winning the #1 pick. I guess that's a good thing. Knowing the NBA they will likely reward us the #1 pick in a very weak draft smh.

Pistons and Wizards have 14.0%, Portland and Charlotte have 13.3%. All four have roughly 50% at a top 4 pick. They flattened the odds of the top 4 a few years ago, no longer does the worst record have 25%

Thanks for explaining. Lol we might really get the #1 pick lol

No way in hell we trade out of a high lottery position. There is a very narrow focus on 5-6 players when you're drafting top 5. This concentrated effort is more likely to help the scouts tease out the finer details and run deep dive analysis.

Last draft we canceled Amen Thompson and Cam Whitmore and devoted all resources to Scoot and Miller. And look at the result of the decision.

MasterIchiro wrote:Last draft we canceled Amen Thompson and Cam Whitmore and devoted all resources to Scoot and Miller.

I cannot imagine that this is true, but if so that would be a reason to fire a GM. You don't just ignore prospects out of a fear of being spread too thin.

Stephon Castle still the guy for me. I know his shot scares some people off, but he's getting like 8 shot attempts per game. It's possible he will be a better offensive player in a much faster pace league. He reminds me of Westbrook when he was at UCLA. He had all the skills but his jumpshot was questionable. I think Castle can play both pg/sg so if Melo goes down he can slide into that big pg role and with the ball in his hands more he should be more aggressive scoring.


I'm real confident Castle is going to be the best player of this class.

Castle might be the best player, maybe it is Sarr, Topic, or Holland. We probably still won't know by this time next year. None of them have proven they are ready to help a team right now. There isn't any Brandon Miller level guy.

The only two guys I see that are defiantly ready to help a team are Knecht and Edey.

JMAC3 wrote:Thought experiment for the injury replacement crew.
ie: Melo, Mark

Let's say we draft Clingan because we are worried about Mark, but Melo gets hurt. Does Clingan being there really do a lot for us?

Opposite side, let's say we draft Topic because we are worried about Melo, but Mark gets hurt. Does Topic being there help?

Essentially which is better? No Melo, but Mark and Clingan. or No Mark, but Melo and Topic.

It comes down to if you believe in Mann and Micic more at PG or Nick R and Grant Williams more at center.

Either way replacing Melo with Topic is a plan to replace a guy who was injured last year with a guy who was injured last year.

Replacing Mark with Clingan is a plan to replace a guy who was injured with a 7 footer who has a history of foot injury and can't shoot free throws.

We need more guys that box out so we stop getting pushed around by the Beef Stews of the world. Draft the guy who weights 300 lbs and plays physical.

GoBobs wrote:

JMAC3 wrote:Thought experiment for the injury replacement crew.
ie: Melo, Mark

Let's say we draft Clingan because we are worried about Mark, but Melo gets hurt. Does Clingan being there really do a lot for us?

Opposite side, let's say we draft Topic because we are worried about Melo, but Mark gets hurt. Does Topic being there help?

Essentially which is better? No Melo, but Mark and Clingan. or No Mark, but Melo and Topic.

It comes down to if you believe in Mann and Micic more at PG or Nick R and Grant Williams more at center.

Either way replacing Melo with Topic is a plan to replace a guy who was injured last year with a guy who was injured last year.

Replacing Mark with Clingan is a plan to replace a guy who was injured with a 7 footer who has a history of foot injury and can't shoot free throws.

We need more guys that box out so we stop getting pushed around by the Beef Stews of the world. Draft the guy who weights 300 lbs and plays physical.

Seconded. The only area where we disagree is that I think it makes more sense to trade down if we're going to target Edey rather than burning a top five pick on him.

I love Clingan and think he has even better defensive instincts than Mark and better ability to finish through contact down low. The two potential red flags you point out have given me pause as well; the injury track record so far is concerning. Additionally, he's going to be a hack a Shaq target in end game situations due to his abysmal free throw shooting. If not for those two things, I think he'd be my guy.

As for Edey, I think to function best, he needs to ideally be paired with a long and mobile stretch 4 (a Christian Wood, Jabari Smith or Johnathan Isaac type) which we really don't have. Doesn't mean we couldn't acquire that elsewhere or have Edey contribute productive minutes off the bench in the interim though while also serving as Mark insurance. He would be a massive upgrade over Richards

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