Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

[13th Man]

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[yosemiteben]

yes and no.

just because he is playing backup PG and can slide over to SG the way the coaching staff wants him to play doesn't mean he's playing his game when he's on the court.

My post was in response to the argument that he's been inconsistent because of uncertainty in his role. I think we've been perfectly clear and consistent in what is expected of him. I'm not super interested in arguing about how he could be used based on how he played two seasons ago in a completely different situation.

Then don't argue.

How about you take my quote in context and then you won't confuse yourself into thinking I'm arguing with you.

[yosemiteben]

Man I can't wait until we have enough data points that people don't have to bring up games from like two and three years ago to support arguments about Lin, either for or against him.

Folks around here generally don't care how Lin played before he put on a Hornets uniform.

Why not? I just have a pet peeve with people speaking for others in generalizations.

Because WGAF what he did a few seasons ago? Most around here are glad he's here but don't need arguments about he how he played with Harden in the 2013-14 season to appreciate his value.

Have you seen any folks that were Hornets fans before this summer bring up Lin's play in Houston or New York in analyzing Lin's play? It's just not that relevant, we care about who he is now in the role that he's here to play.

[Roy Tarpley]

I can see both sides. Early on, when people were saying Lin is just a backup PG, some Lin fans took that as saying he only has the potential to be a backup PG. So they, including myself, had to turn to past record and empirical evidence (e.g., Lin's starting role on multiple playoff teams, his multiple 30 pt outbursts, his triple double off the bench, etc.) to prove otherwise.

On the other hand, longtime Hornets fans on this site, while recognizing that Lin could start on quite a few NBA teams, are focused on the season at hand, in which Lin was clearly given a role as the backup PG, and he has accepted it. So what's the point of discussing ad nauseam past seasons?

Notwithstanding the miscommunication, I think we're all on the same page. As the season progresses, we're all understanding Lin's value and we'll get more current "data points" to have fun debates.

[gafun]

yes and no.

just because he is playing backup PG and can slide over to SG the way the coaching staff wants him to play doesn't mean he's playing his game when he's on the court.

.....,,consistent in what is expected of him. I'm not super interested in arguing about how he could be used based on how he played two seasons ago in a completely different situation.

Then don't argue. Like Hansbrough coming in for mop up duty. Is that's all he is? Or given consistent minutes like he had for the pacers or early on with the raptors both playoff teams BTW he would actually play better score more rebound more than he is doing in the limited minutes he has played.

As long as this team keeps winning then there's little need to change. Let's see what happens if the Hornets go on a slump.

"as this team keeps winning, then no need to change"? But if the team ignore some critical problems such as defense match and iso, it could lose some games sooner or later. We are few games to the top, few games away out of top 10. The margin of the errors is very small. If you use the game's advanced stats, you can find out which lineups and players actually have positive impacts on the game. If an lineup has 30 points, its opponent lineups has 35 . If the other lineup has 20 points, but it made better defense so that its opponent lineup only has 16 points. Now if we have last possession - if we win, the credits usually go to the first lineup. If we lose, the first lineup still gets better individual stats. The blame would go to the second line up because it has lower scores. But the advanced stats would tell you , no matter we score the final shot or not, there is the problem is on the first lineup. If you check Hornets 22 games advanced stats, you would believe we might had better chance to win the Boston game if Clifford kept the lineup which started the 4th quarter (Lin was pg) to finish the game. The defense was collapsed since Clifford changed the lineup around 6 mins mark.

[bws94]

Lineups by themselves don't reveal matchup difficulty. The defensive plays of one or two players, or a rim protector taken out of the game, impacts the production numbers of a lineup. The Celtics and Hornets had their best performing lineups in to close the game. The Celtics made more plays than the Hornets, Hornets lose. Now the coach's job is to prepare for the next opponent with film and practice, and so far Clifford and his staff have done the job well.

[bigbob]

Lin maybe good at making shoot in the clutch but not making decision. His turnover that allowed the Blazers to tie the game is ...

The first mistake you made was ignoring Beverlys TO afterwards.


Game 3
But your ignoring that he was also the reason why Daniels hit that game-winner after Harden lost the ball, only Lin's hustle and also awareness, where to go with the ball and what to do after that decisive save made that possible.

You also ignore his impact on opposing teams:

Game 5
The Trail Blazers said the two shots Lin hit as the shot clock expired were deflating.

"He threw up some crazy shots," Lillard said. "That's when you know a guy is having a good night. They would put one up at the end of so many good defensive possessions, and it's going in. That let you know what kind of night it was."

Lin also hit two big jump shots, including a three-pointer, just before the shot clock buzzer. They were major dagger shots for the Blazers after they played 23 seconds of tough defense.

“Those were two big momentum plays for them and kind of took a little bit out of us,” Blazers coach Terry Stotts said. “Both those plays we had a good defensive stand and then he throws it up at the end.”

Just as you take away, you must give credit where its due. Every player in the NBA has had a bad shot or bad moment.


Lets not forget, the Lin led bench in the last game, this past week the bench outscored the opposing teams 34-10. Lin also created much of the situation where the Hornets had more than 8 minutes of bonus in the 4th Qtr by wrecking havoc on the other teams Defensive plans.

Lin and the team are getting better and better.

You may live in the past with some commentary on teams that don't exist as a unit anymore but the rest of us are in the NBA 2015-2016 season.

though he is right, lin made some amazing plays that series but also some terrible bone headed mistakes. The 1 turnover he made was at a crucial moment in the game when it would have changed the whole series. Don't forget the missed layup LOL. Hes a great player, he can play well against anyone if he is given the right opportunity BUT, when he was on the rockets, he was a double edged sword. He could crush the other teams momentum right when we needed it, OR he could crush the rockets momentum. It was a love/hate relationship with lin, way too much drama. So far, hes doing better this year but im not going to say hes no longer the double edge sword he used to be. The # of games played this season is far too low to make any conclusions, but I can say that his handles, defense and confidence on the court all seems to have improved. Not sure what that means, but it could be a good sign for lins basketball future.

[bigbob]

Man I can't wait until we have enough data points that people don't have to bring up games from like two and three years ago to support arguments about Lin, either for or against him.

Folks around here generally don't care how Lin played before he put on a Hornets uniform.

Why not? I just have a pet peeve with people speaking for others in generalizations.

Because WGAF what he did a few seasons ago? Most around here are glad he's here but don't need arguments about he how he played with Harden in the 2013-14 season to appreciate his value.

Have you seen any folks that were Hornets fans before this summer bring up Lin's play in Houston or New York in analyzing Lin's play? It's just not that relevant, we care about who he is now in the role that he's here to play.

I agree with you that it doesn't matter what he did in the past, but the past shows what kind of player a person is. And the fact is, Lin is clutch, even if alot of people don't want to admit it. He might suck half the game, comitt 10 turnovers but in the clutch he generally plays really well. He already showed that this season...against one team in OT where he scored all the points to secure the win. Even last game against the celtics, he brought the game back to 1 point with less than 1 minute left. Right after that play when isaaiah thomas brought the ball back, lin nearly forced a jump ball on him but was thrown off (little guy has alot of power), and cody zeller bumped into thomas slightly which IT used to his advantage and sold the refs as a hardcore flop. It was a funny play actually, IT is a joker. On a side note, did anyone notice how pissed coach cliff was about that flop?? Dude was literally shtting his pants. Then when IT travelled on that final play and reff didn't call anything, I think Cliff bust a vein or something LOL. Looked like he wanted to murder IT.

I don't know about walker, or other players but lin is clutch period. Batuum is the worst when it comes to clutch. Im not saying Lin is better than Batuum, because he's not. Batuum makes some crazy shots, and is always a double double threat. The truth though is,in the last second of the game I would bench Batuum, put in Lin, zeller, marvin williams, jeremy lamb and frank kaminsky. In my opinion, those guys are the biggest clutch players on the hornets.

[Roy Tarpley]

Eh, you can make the same "double-edged sword" argument about Kemba or Batum. Kemba can score 35 points one night and shoot 3-15 the next. Batum can score a triple-double one night and have 9 turnovers the next. Lin is just salient because of what he represents.

[bws94]

Kemba is most definitely clutch. Arguably the most clutch for the team this season.

[bigbob]

Eh, you can make the same "double-edged sword" argument about Kemba or Batum. Kemba can score 35 points one night and shoot 3-15 the next. Batum can score a triple-double one night and have 9 turnovers the next. Lin is just salient because of what he represents.

that is true for any player one game to the next, but when someone makes amazing plays and then game killing plays within minutes i think its more evident. I think it was game 4 of rockets vs blazers, he was playing crazy good, 20+ points, then we wind down near end of 4th quarter:
1) missed easy layup leading to OT 2) in OT turns ball over during a crucial possession 3)when harden loses the ball in the final 10 seconds of OT, down by 1 point, lin hustles, grabs ball then a crazy pass to troy daniels on the perimeter to hit a 3pointer and turn momentum for good.

Damn double edge sword...lol

Usually when someone is playing good, theyre GOOD, with lin its good and bad, and pray the good outweighs the bad. Even alot of games this season you can see the same behaviour. Recently though, the last few games, i can tell he has improved his handles and defense so maybe we can get rid of that double edge sword label on him for good.

[fatlever]

Kemba has hit more game winning, game tying or just HUGE shots than I can count. He has plenty of faults, but hitting big shots isn't one of them.

[leeramundo]

I'd trust Kemba over anyone in a clutch situation as well. The guy's been clutch so many times already this season on top of just shooting incredibly well overall. He's got the athleticism and handles to get off a shot for himself that nobody else really has on the team. I don't know about Batum, he hasn't been particularly clutch this season and I don't know too much about his history in these situations. I still don't have a problem with him taking the shot the other night though. He's our best three point shooter. He's got height and length to get a good shot off. Him not passing to the open Lin... You can see clearly that as soon as he got the ball, even before he got the ball, he was going to shoot it. He probably didn't even see Lin, nor was looking for anyone else. That's fine with me. It's an assertive and focused play. If he gets a good look, he was gonna take it. Would it have been a better play if he had passed it off? Maybe, maybe not.

Lin is clutch, but let's just forget about that shot guys. It was a wasn't a great shot but Batum taking it wasn't this ridiculous thing that shouldn't have happened. It's just unfortunate it didn't go in. Let's move on.

[lin is ok]

I'd trust Kemba over anyone in a clutch situation as well. The guy's been clutch so many times already this season on top of just shooting incredibly well overall. He's got the athleticism and handles to get off a shot for himself that nobody else really has on the team. I don't know about Batum, he hasn't been particularly clutch this season and I don't know too much about his history in these situations. I still don't have a problem with him taking the shot the other night though. He's our best three point shooter. He's got height and length to get a good shot off. Him not passing to the open Lin... You can see clearly that as soon as he got the ball, even before he got the ball, he was going to shoot it. He probably didn't even see Lin, nor was looking for anyone else. That's fine with me. It's an assertive and focused play. If he gets a good look, he was gonna take it. Would it have been a better play if he had passed it off? Maybe, maybe not.

Lin is clutch, but let's just forget about that shot guys. It was a wasn't a great shot but Batum taking it wasn't this ridiculous thing that shouldn't have happened. It's just unfortunate it didn't go in. Let's move on.

the airball made it hard to bear , if he clanked it on the rim it would have have been easier to stomach.

[gafun]

I do think the last shot could impact the game as much as the last 6 mins poor defense and lack of ball movements. One shot might only impact one close game. The arrangement of lineups and players' roles could impact playoff spot.


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[ChokeFasncists]

Missed some threes, sheet happens.

[spaceballer]

Not particularly surprising, but Yahoo released data showing that Jeremy was the most searched athlete in Taiwan this year. Runner up is Steph Curry. And both ahead of the home-grown Taiwanese athletes like the guy playing baseball in the MLB.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2015/12/17/453719/Jeremy-Lin.htm

I wonder if Michael Jordan has any business interests in Taiwan or if he's tried to capitalize on this, whether as part of his Hornets operations or ancillary ventures. Or maybe he's expecting Jeremy to be a one year rental and moving on next season. And even if that happens, he should still try to capitalize on it this season. More money coming into the Hornets and saved up may make it easier to pay luxury taxes later on if needed to push the team over the hump if and when they become competitive contenders in future years.

[Vae Victus]

Lin seemed to have a strong 1st half against the Magic. Started the 3rd surprisingly (although Batum was sick) and proceeded to do jack **** right after. Is the kemba/lin backcourt simply not gonna work at all im guessing?

[gafun]

Lin seemed to have a strong 1st half against the Magic. Started the 3rd surprisingly (although Batum was sick) and proceeded to do jack **** right after. Is the kemba/lin backcourt simply not gonna work at all im guessing?

Kemba looked much less energy today. Lin's shooting was too much off in 2rd h


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[Vae Victus]

Haha Lin played the most mins today, so clearly the loss is squarely his fault