Signed By Indiana - The Jeremy Lamb Thread

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Eh, my view is that it really doesn't matter that much if Lamb shares responsibility for the bench sucking. To be clear I think that he does, but it's an irrelevant observation.

Things that matter in regards to Lamb,
1. He is producing well this year overall.
2. He has played really well with the starters in his minutes with them.
3. There are other players, currently starting, that might help the bench as a whole play better.

I can buy the argument that it matters less who starts, than it does who finishes games. But Lamb is finishing less than I would like him to.

I can buy the argument that his defense, while better, is still problematic this year. I would just argue that it would make more sense to pair him with MKG and Howard then who, theoretically, could help mitigate that.

And I'll also feel free to admit that had Batum not been injured or if MKG had found his 3 point shot we might not be having this discussion. Ditto for maybe if Cho had actually found a backup PG that could play.

Finally, for the record, I was 100% behind trading Lamb before the season started ... and I'm 100% against it now. This team has plenty of problems at the moment, but Lamb isn't one of them.

[yosemiteben]

True. As a part of the bench unit Lamb is responsible for how bad the bench performs but at the same time he’s the least responsible out of all of the bench players for how bad they’ve been.

I guess that’s the answer Yosemite wants.

Was that so hard?

The martyr complex and defensiveness about Lamb baffles me. He is good. No one is challenging that. His flaws contribute to the bench's shortcomings. That also should not be controversial. Lamb, like all players, has strengths and weaknesses. The current bench lineup brings out his weaknesses.

I've talked at length about Frank's struggles, and Bacon's, and Monk's. I don't think it is even necessary to comment on JOB's struggles. I still like the conceptual fit of MCW, but I did not expect him to fall off the cliff in terms of FG% around the basket on easy layups and I've said a few times that I think he's having mental issues. He deserves the criticism he gets about his shooting and blown layups.

You and I would get along a lot better if you didn't have such a fondness for trolling.

[catch20two]

I still like the conceptual fit of MCW

That’s where you lost me at lol.

[yosemiteben]

I still like the conceptual fit of MCW

That’s where you lost me at lol.

Maybe just read the last sentence then.

[catch20two]

I still like the conceptual fit of MCW

That’s where you lost me at lol.

Maybe just read the last sentence then.

I read the whole post the first time around. I also told you before the season started immediately after the signing that he has a history of missing layups throughout his career. He also has a history of being the weakest link in the rotation. I watched him in Philly. I watched him in Milwaukee. I watched him in Chicago. He’s been utter trash on each of those teams. He hasn’t lasted more than a season and a half on none of those squads that desperately needed a PG.

[catch20two]

Back on topic. I hate discussing MCW in a Lamb thread nevertheless any of our player’s threads. His lack of talent might be contagious and taint Lamb.

Lamb should be starting. If not starting then he should be getting 30+ minutes per game. We have too much versatility on this roster not to utilize having our best players on the floor almost at all times.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

So the THEORY of a tall, defensive PG to pair with Monk as he adjusted to the NBA was a decent idea. It's just that the reality of MCW is super bad for all the reasons you mention. I'm positive that the front office saw the same things you did Catch, but I'm also willing to be that they talked themselves into thinking that it would be different here - probably in no small part because of the theoretical fit and Kemba's pushing him. If your star PG comes to you and asks you to sign guy X as his backup you've got to consider it.

And yeah, MCW belongs in the MCW thread. Sorry

[316Hornets]

I'm sort of up in the air on whether we should consider trading Lamb. If this season is a wash, then freeing up a spot for Monk by trading Lamb could pay dividends later on down the road. We also have to realize that Lamb may not be affordable for us after his current contract ends in 2019 and that's even if he wanted to stick around after getting so few opportunities.

Imo, best case scenario is we give Lamb starting duties for the next couple months. Hopefully, he shows off and continues his hot shooting with the starting unit. If by the time the trade deadline rolls around we have little to no shot at playoffs, trade Lamb for future picks.

[Joest2003]

The martyr complex and defensiveness about Lamb baffles me.

Probably has something to do with you saying things like "he can't organize an offense or set up his teammates consistently so we need to go find someone who can"

We have so many problems on the team especially on the bench and you single out one of our best players and say we need to replace him?

Either that's a extremely bad basketball evaluation or a good troll job.

[yosemiteben]

The martyr complex and defensiveness about Lamb baffles me.

Probably has something to do with you saying things like "he can't organize an offense or set up his teammates consistently so we need to go find someone who can"

We have so many problems on the team especially on the bench and you single out one of our best players and say we need to replace him?

Either that's a extremely bad basketball evaluation or a good troll job.

I didn't say we need to replace him. I'm not the one arguing that we have to change the lineups, remember? That's you.

I don't think it's controversial to say he's an ISO player though. He's not a setup guy, he gets tunnel vision and he looks to score. This is the first season he's averaged above 3 assists per 36 despite having unusually high usage each year since joining the league. He can't organize an offense, that's not his strength. Do you really disagree?

[Joest2003]

The martyr complex and defensiveness about Lamb baffles me.

Probably has something to do with you saying things like "he can't organize an offense or set up his teammates consistently so we need to go find someone who can"

We have so many problems on the team especially on the bench and you single out one of our best players and say we need to replace him?

Either that's a extremely bad basketball evaluation or a good troll job.

I didn't say we need to replace him. I'm not the one arguing that we have to change the lineups, remember? That's you.

I don't think it's controversial to say he's an ISO player though. He's not a setup guy, he gets tunnel vision and he looks to score. This is the first season he's averaged above 3 assists per 36 despite having unusually high usage each year since joining the league. He can't organize an offense, that's not his strength. Do you really disagree?

I havent been arguing about lineups I just been saying my opinion. Which was Lamb was playing good with starters and the second unit has no playmakers and that is batums strength.

I never said Lamb can organize an offense. Why would he have to? He is a shooting guard are we depending on MKG to run offense too? just seems like a real odd take. Lamb Is averaging over double the assist as MKG in the same MPG and more than our backup PG.

Again just seems odd to judge a shooting guard on his play making skills and suggest we replace him because of it. Like your looking for something to criticize.

[catch20two]

Yosemite said Lamb can’t do the job of a PG with the second unit “so we have to go find someone who can“. Newsflash blind fury! Batum is that guy.

[yosemiteben]

My point is we need to fix the second unit. To do that we need to fix what's wrong with it.

IMO, part of the problem is a lack of playmaking / passing. To fix that we should switch plus passing skills for minus passing skills. Noting that Lamb has minus passing skills is not arbitrarily looking for reasons to criticize him, it's trying to figure out how to fix the bench.

[Joest2003]

Yosemite said Lamb can’t do the job of a PG with the second unit “so we have to go find someone who can“. Newsflash blind fury! Batum is that guy.

Lol the irony

[Joest2003]

My point is we need to fix the second unit. To do that we need to fix what's wrong with it.

IMO, part of the problem is a lack of playmaking / passing. To fix that we should switch plus passing skills for minus passing skills. Noting that Lamb has minus passing skills is not arbitrarily looking for reasons to criticize him, it's trying to figure out how to fix the bench.

Well since your so hell bent on shooting guards creating offense we have the perfect guy for the job.

[catch20two]

My point is we need to fix the second unit. To do that we need to fix what's wrong with it.

IMO, part of the problem is a lack of playmaking / passing. To fix that we should switch plus passing skills for minus passing skills. Noting that Lamb has minus passing skills is not arbitrarily looking for reasons to criticize him, it's trying to figure out how to fix the bench.

The way to fix the bench should start with Cho bringing in a serviceable backup PG. MCW never has been serviceable. You remember the Jeremy Lin year? Well that was probably the only year our bench hasn’t been horrendous at the very moment Kemba went to the bench.

Sure we can trade Lamb to go find another PG to play alongside MCW that sound about as stupid as stupid does.

[catch20two]

My point is we need to fix the second unit. To do that we need to fix what's wrong with it.

IMO, part of the problem is a lack of playmaking / passing. To fix that we should switch plus passing skills for minus passing skills. Noting that Lamb has minus passing skills is not arbitrarily looking for reasons to criticize him, it's trying to figure out how to fix the bench.

Well since your so hell bent on shooting guards creating offense we have the perfect guy for the job.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone contradict themselves so much within one topic this much ever lol.

[yosemiteben]

You guys just are ignoring the context of this discussion.

It started with you guys talking about how great Lamb is and how he deserves to start, and your constant criticism of Batum.

When I continued to harp on the bench and not the starters being the problem, then switching Lamb for Batum makes sense not because Lamb is so good but in fact because a skill set is missing on the bench. You and catch have both said this, yet my bringing it up is somehow contradictory and ironic.

I know Batum solves the problem more than Lamb. I like the idea of him getting more run with the bench. I don't hate the idea of Lamb starting, but it should be viewed 100% from the perspective of how we can fix the bench.

I have said it before and will say it again - what annoys me is the hyperdefensiveness about Lamb. He can be moved because it will make a lineup better, but only if others in the lineup and specifically not Lamb are considered responsible for the weakness. Any potential criticism of Lamb must be offset with praise for Lamb and criticisms of other players.

[catch20two]

You guys just are ignoring the context of this discussion.

It started with you guys talking about how great Lamb is and how he deserves to start, and your constant criticism of Batum.

When I continued to harp on the bench and not the starters being the problem, then switching Lamb for Batum makes sense not because Lamb is so good but in fact because a skill set is missing on the bench. You and catch have both said this, yet my bringing it up is somehow contradictory and ironic.

I know Batum solves the problem more than Lamb. I like the idea of him getting more run with the bench. I don't hate the idea of Lamb starting, but it should be viewed 100% from the perspective of how we can fix the bench.

I have said it before and will say it again - what annoys me is the hyperdefensiveness about Lamb. He can be moved because it will make a lineup better, but only if others in the lineup and specifically not Lamb are considered responsible for the weakness. Any potential criticism of Lamb must be offset with praise for Lamb and criticisms of other players.

No. You fail to put it into context. I’m not ignoring it. I don’t even think I’ve mentioned Lamb and the adjective or adverb great in the same sentence all season lol.

The context is that Lamb is having a better season than Batum.

The context is that the starting lineup performs better with Lamb in the lineup than Batum.

The context is that the 2nd unit needs a playmaker that makes MCW’s ineffectiveness expendable.

The context is that Batum is our second best playmaker and have had some success with keeping the 2nd unit afloat this season as a de facto PG.

The context is that Lamb doesn’t even have to start but he should be seeing 30+ minutes per game.

The context is that Batum needs to be either staggered into the 2nd unit more or moved to the bench for the betterment of the team.

That’s the context that you choose to ignore so you can pin us into a irrational wall that Lamb has been a detriment to the team because he’s not as good as Batum at running the offense. That’s been openly admitted. Batum is essentially a PG in a SF/PF body.

[Joest2003]

I have said it before and will say it again - what annoys me is the hyperdefensiveness about Lamb.

I'm hyperdefensive because I pointed out how ridiculous it is that you said we need to replace Lamb because he doesn't create offense for others consistently on the second unit?

Lol ok man. Whatever makes you feel better

Hyperdefensive is everyone 2 years ago when I said Cody was soft and wanted more than 2 double doubles a season and everyone got so mad at me for saying something negative about zeller. Surprised I didn't get banned.