Leap Year - The Kemba Walker Thread III

[DY_nasty]

A quality PG means everything for an offense. The Clippers are a prime example. They were garbage with Deandre Jordan, Blake Griffin, and a healthy Eric Gordon all on the team. They didn't turn the corner until they traded for Chris Paul. Lowry in Toronto is another great example.

That said with the passing and shooting we added this past offseason we should be able to have a decent offense despite Kemba's shortcomings. That goes out the window though if we lose Batum.

Our offense has been good pretty much all season, despite the shortcomings of many of our players, including but not exclusively Kemba.

No it hasn't.

For a lot of reasons... not specifically Kemba either but .... no it hasn't. Lets not make things up. We have a (mostly) 1 dimensional offense that for several reasons can't survive even the most basic perimeter pressure and are inconsistent night in and night out.

[Braggins]

its a negative against him because .... it should be? lol

Silly, so every player that doesn't make the all star team deserves to be criticized for not making it and Kemba having 50 point games and coming really close to making it somehow makes it worse for hIm?

kemba's been horrible on d all year long too. i didn't even think that was up for debate. but cool. let if fly.

Actually, all I said is that he doesn't refuse to play defense and that you were using hyperbole. If you want to post stats that show that Kemba has had a massive negative effect on our defense that would constitute calling him horrible then go for it. I tried to look them up but am not the greatest with nba.com stats. I think his defensive on/off per 100 possession in 2013/2014 was like +2. It was pretty bad last season, but I would say based on the eye test he has been average to somewhat below average outside of last season.

i like to think i hate on everyone pretty evenly given their roles on the team, and give credit where due as well (i spent most of last year crapping on clifford but now i praise him at every chance, i'm really impartial on hawes, was down on lamb before it was cool, etc)

You bash Kemba more than anyone and usually don't let up even when hes playing well. Doesn't really matter though, just saying.

tell me how kemba's an even average defender this year. lets just start there. hey remember the good old days when kemba would shoot like crap but still play great man defense and scrap for a full 48? yeah me too. wish more people would call him out on it. you should too. it won't hurt.

Hes hussled his ass off this year. There have been a few games where the effort wasn't there, but there have been many more games where he hustled on defense more than anyone on the team. Hes been playing through knee soreness recently and we've been severely undermanned. It isn't surprising that his defense has stood out a little more in a negative way recently.

[Braggins]

A quality PG means everything for an offense. The Clippers are a prime example. They were garbage with Deandre Jordan, Blake Griffin, and a healthy Eric Gordon all on the team. They didn't turn the corner until they traded for Chris Paul. Lowry in Toronto is another great example.

That said with the passing and shooting we added this past offseason we should be able to have a decent offense despite Kemba's shortcomings. That goes out the window though if we lose Batum.

Our offense has been good pretty much all season, despite the shortcomings of many of our players, including but not exclusively Kemba.

No it hasn't.

For a lot of reasons... not specifically Kemba either but .... no it hasn't. Lets not make things up. We have a (mostly) 1 dimensional offense that for several reasons can't survive even the most basic perimeter pressure and are inconsistent night in and night out.

Our offense was top 10 or borderline top 10 until we got the injury bug last month. There hasn't been much issue when people were healthy.

[DY_nasty]

Yeah. A guy who's supposed to be the franchise player not making the all-star game should absolutely be considered a knock against him. Really fair unless your team is outright tanking. No? Whether that's directly on him, or the organization, its still up for discussion and its grounds for fair criticism.

I say that Kemba refuses to play D because he does at times. Ever since he got paid he's shown that he's happy to sleep on D, allowing his man to beat him off-ball regularly. And this year, he's let the entire league beat him off the dribble. When guys get into lane without a screen vs this team? The possession may as well be forfeit. Someone is getting an easy bucket.

Also, Kemba's hustle is when he wants to hustle. I'd love to see him hustle and not get beat off-ball. Hustle and hit a big early when they seal instead of dribbling holes in the court. Hustle and cut when someone else is handling it, and not just when the ball is supposed to come his way. Too often he'll pass to Lin or Batum and float out 5ft behind the 3pt line just giving the D a break. Diving for loose balls and crashing the glass is easy. There's plenty of other time on the court where he's chilling.

And again, I bash Kemba because he's the guy. It comes with job description. And when he's done very little to make significant changes to his game over 5 years. We've done the whole blameeveryoneelse thing for a while now. Drafted and made roster additions specifically around him. What's the point of just ignoring how he loves to sleep between the 1st and 4th quarter? Would it make you that much happier if people never brought up how he's still astonishingly mediocre in transition? Should I smile at the fact that he's in his 5th year and just now embracing the baseline? Kemba could split a trap with the best in the league a few years ago, now suddenly he can't at all? He could go 2-14 back in 2013 and still be all over the floor and an impact, now he's simply a ghost on those nights? The talk of the last 3 seasons was that Kemba needed more shooting to really orchestrate an offense - now that we have more shooters, all he does is chuck with everyone else

i'm a dick for that i guess

everyone's hurt too . the thing with kemba is that he's played inconsistent even when healthy

just tired of making excuses for him. can't even properly discuss our other stuff because of it. kemba's our rubio. he's not the problem, he's also simply not the solution.

as long as you have a decent argument for anyone on the team, i'm more than happy to shoot a dialogue with you or anyone. and i'll happily sit and hold an L too (shoutout to lamarmatic for bringing the numbers and film on plenty of occasions) if a great point is made.

but when someone doesn't or cries that i'm just being a jerk because it makes my teeth white? hey... they sound a lot more butthurt than I do tbh

its not like im propping lin up because of a good game. and i'm pretty sure i've trashed kemba in games where he dropped 40 before. call a mod if you think i'm pushing some agenda

Our offense has been good pretty much all season, despite the shortcomings of many of our players, including but not exclusively Kemba.

No it hasn't.

For a lot of reasons... not specifically Kemba either but .... no it hasn't. Lets not make things up. We have a (mostly) 1 dimensional offense that for several reasons can't survive even the most basic perimeter pressure and are inconsistent night in and night out.

Our offense was top 10 or borderline top 10 until we got the injury bug last month. There hasn't been much issue when people were healthy.

It hasn't been good outside of December. Since then, we've largely been dependent on just being hot. We don't create easy buckets or reverse the ball at all. Its just bad basketball, our defensive issues have been much worse than our offense's but its still pretty concerning. The only thing injures have shown is that we've managed to bandaid and placate and Kemba through the glaring problems.

[Braggins]

Yeah. A guy who's supposed to be the franchise player not making the all-star game should absolutely be considered a knock against him. Really fair unless your team is outright tanking. No? Whether that's directly on him, or the organization, its still up for discussion and its grounds for fair criticism.

I say that Kemba refuses to play D because he does at times. Ever since he got paid he's shown that he's happy to sleep on D, allowing his man to beat him off-ball regularly. And this year, he's let the entire league beat him off the dribble. When guys get into lane without a screen vs this team? The possession may as well be forfeit. Someone is getting an easy bucket.

Also, Kemba's hustle is when he wants to hustle. I'd love to see him hustle and not get beat off-ball. Hustle and hit a big early when they seal instead of dribbling holes in the court. Hustle and cut when someone else is handling it, and not just when the ball is supposed to come his way. Too often he'll pass to Lin or Batum and float out 5ft behind the 3pt line just giving the D a break. Diving for loose balls and crashing the glass is easy. There's plenty of other time on the court where he's chilling.

And again, I bash Kemba because he's the guy. It comes with job description. And when he's done very little to make significant changes to his game over 5 years. We've done the whole blameeveryoneelse thing for a while now. Drafted and made roster additions specifically around him. What's the point of just ignoring how he loves to sleep between the 1st and 4th quarter? Would it make you that much happier if people never brought up how he's still astonishingly mediocre in transition? Should I smile at the fact that he's in his 5th year and just now embracing the baseline? Kemba could split a trap with the best in the league a few years ago, now suddenly he can't at all? He could go 2-14 back in 2013 and still be all over the floor and an impact, now he's simply a ghost on those nights? The talk of the last 3 seasons was that Kemba needed more shooting to really orchestrate an offense - now that we have more shooters, all he does is chuck with everyone else

i'm a dick for that i guess

everyone's hurt too . the thing with kemba is that he's played inconsistent even when healthy

just tired of making excuses for him. can't even properly discuss our other stuff because of it. kemba's our rubio. he's not the problem, he's also simply not the solution.

as long as you have a decent argument for anyone on the team, i'm more than happy to shoot a dialogue with you or anyone. and i'll happily sit and hold an L too (shoutout to lamarmatic for bringing the numbers and film on plenty of occasions) if a great point is made.

but when someone doesn't or cries that i'm just being a jerk because it makes my teeth white? hey... they sound a lot more butthurt than I do tbh

its not like im propping lin up because of a good game. and i'm pretty sure i've trashed kemba in games where he dropped 40 before. call a mod if you think i'm pushing some agenda

No it hasn't.

For a lot of reasons... not specifically Kemba either but .... no it hasn't. Lets not make things up. We have a (mostly) 1 dimensional offense that for several reasons can't survive even the most basic perimeter pressure and are inconsistent night in and night out.

Our offense was top 10 or borderline top 10 until we got the injury bug last month. There hasn't been much issue when people were healthy.

It hasn't been good outside of December. Since then, we've largely been dependent on just being hot. We don't create easy buckets or reverse the ball at all. Its just bad basketball, our defensive issues have been much worse than our offense's but its still pretty concerning. The only thing injures have shown is that we've managed to bandaid and placate and Kemba through the glaring problems.

Where exactly was I making excuses for him and what am I excusing? Hes having a career best season. None of my points have had anything to do with claiming you are a jerk for criticizing him or that he doesn't have flaws. I just disagree that the extent to which you bash him is really warranted.

If he is horrible on defense then provide some stats. I know his defensive stats were bad enough last season that I wouldn't really disagree with calling him horrible. He was a bit below average in 2013/2014 statistically and by the eye test. I haven't felt like his defense has been a major problem this season but I haven't seen advanced defensive stats in a while. I would guess he has been a slight negative or around even overall this season. He had a few bad defensive games earlier in the season and his effort has been fairly inconsistent the last 2-3 weeks (but good overall imo) so the numbers could easily be worse than I would expect. I'm not saying he doesn't need to get better or that he can't be a liability in certain situations, but I don't think hes been that bad.

Lets see how our offense looks after we hopefully get healthy here soon. We do have some holes but I'm not really that worried about it. If MKG's return can elevate us back to a top 10 defense we can easily get into the playoffs with an average offense, but I think we have the potential to be at least a little better than average.

[ChokeFasncists]

Come on... Kemba's 50 point game was easily a better individual performance than Lin's individual performance against the Cavs. The win against the Cavs was a team victory and not Lin's victory. MKG had more to do with us winning that game than anything.

That's where the paradox comes in. When Lin plays well, it's MKG, Marv and Cody that shined. But when Kemba plays well, it's Kemba that plays well. Another question is, where were they during the 21 games losing streak? If you are one of them who would you prefer to play with? It's impossible to score 50 every game and win, whereas it's possible to get everyone to play well and win.

PS* Holy cow, the following conversation was tl;bdr (too long; but did read), too much to get in. lol

[fatlever]

It could also easily be said that when Lin doesn't play well its the fault of the coaches, Kemba, his injuries, too many minutes, too little minutes, playing wrong position etc... It goes both ways. We can do this silly back and forth for eternity.

We are a better team with both Kemba and Lin.

I also don't think it is fair to suggest that if we had Lin for the past 3 years we wouldn't have lost all those games to Lebron. We've dealt with a massive rebuilding year and a ton of injuries in two of those 3 years. The year we got swept in the playoffs and lost 8 games to Lebron and the Heat, we were a pretty good team, but that Heat team was fantastic. We lost Jefferson in the first half of the first game of the playoff series and that year our entire offense was based around Jefferson. There is no shame in losing to that Heat team a bunch of times.

[ChokeFasncists]

It could also easily be said that when Lin doesn't play well its the fault of the coaches, Kemba, his injuries, too many minutes, too little minutes, playing wrong position etc... It goes both ways. We can do this silly back and forth for eternity.

We are a better team with both Kemba and Lin.

True, but hey, I was responding to his post. (OTOH, I'm not sure I understand, you're trying to make excuses for Lin not playing well?)

I also don't think it is fair to suggest that if we had Lin for the past 3 years we wouldn't have lost all those games to Lebron. We've dealt with a massive rebuilding year and a ton of injuries in two of those 3 years. The year we got swept in the playoffs and lost 8 games to Lebron and the Heat, we were a pretty good team, but that Heat team was fantastic. We lost Jefferson in the first half of the first game of the playoff series and that year our entire offense was based around Jefferson. There is no shame in losing to that Heat team a bunch of times.

Na, that's not what I meant. People are saying it was a team win, or mainly cuz of MKG and not Lin. I'm saying, not necessarily.

[phillycheese]

I have to agree with Dy_Nasty on many of the points. Kemba has been the face of the franchise , the one that gets to start all the possessions, the one whose role remains unchanged and except for one instance this year, the one whose minutes are more or less guaranteed. He has been 100% catered to. So if the team loses a close game with the ball in his hands, not once, twice but three times in the final minute and the team fails to score then it is on him. Sorry, you take the glory, you take the blame. Granted Kemba is not scared to take the responsibility, but I don't know if his talent / makeup is sufficient to warrant being given that responsibility. So unless the coach reins him in, Kemba will not be counted on to do it himself, as it is not his instinct to. I feel the coaching has to take some of the heat for it as well.

[Roy Tarpley]

It's frustrating that Kemba, despite having added talent this year with Batum, Lin, and Lamb, is averaging a career high for shot attempts per game.

Not trying to pick on Kemba (as a Lin fan, there have been several games this season where I've said Lin simply sucked) but when you're the team's top player, you're supposed to shoulder the greatest scrutiny and burden. When Kemba is your best player (or he thinks he's the team's best player), your team is in trouble.

This is just one man's opinion, but someone who has watched the NBA over 30 years.

[PG13]

It's not just the number of shots he takes. It's the fact that he likes to shoot under all circumstances, whether he's hot or he's cold. A lot of times he decides to take the shot when the better option is to make plays for his teammates. Sometimes he'll take a contested jump shot when he could have passed to a more open teammate with lots of time on the clock. Even if he makes them I'm not impressed. He's a good shooter but basketball is a team sport, a PG should try to distribute the ball and get everyone involved, make everyone happy instead of freezing your teammates out. People play harder on both ends when you get them involved.

It has become obvious to me that he just loves to shoot. People can stop saying that he's "carrying the team". He shoots a lot even when his teammates are playing well and don't need his heroball.

[bws94]

My question is, who do you go to for handling and scores in crunch time if not Kemba? Batum hasn't distinguished himself in those situations. Lin would be fine if you could trust his handles. But you can't really or you hold your breath when he has the ball. So who has the ability to handle the pressure and dribble through it and at times make big shots? Kemba. That ability should be appreciated in my opinion.

Kemba's shortcoming is he's not a great passer really. He can do some nice passes, sometimes, but he's not the passer Batum and Lin are. There has to be a way to combine the talents of Kemba, Lin and Batum to involve the team and everyone so that Kemba's tendency of not just wanting, but at times needing, to take over the game is limited.

I see a lot of Kemba letting Batum run the facilitating show when the team is running on all cylinders. But when guys aren't knocking down shots or Batum is in one of his TO prone games, then Kemba goes into more of his shoot-first mentality. I do think that some of Kemba's shooting a lot comes out of the fact that he can handle the ball great and create shots for himself and he'll do it when others aren't. It's when they are that I have problems with him. And he does create shots for others a decent amount of times. He does have a good amount of assists.

He tries on defense, he's just not that big and he's just not that sound defensively. But he at times gets steals, he rebounds. He has heart. That's what I like about him. He has bad tendencies, but so do a lot of other Hornets.

[fatlever]

One thing that has frustrated me about Kemba recently is he often plays defense with his hands down on his sides, even when he is engaged in on the ball defense. That seems like something that any good coach would immediately correct.

[BigSlam]

One thing that has frustrated me about Kemba recently is he often plays defense with his hands down on his sides, even when he is engaged in on the ball defense. That seems like something that any good coach would immediately correct.

That seems like something that any good player wouldn't do so no coach would have to immediately correct.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[fatlever]

One thing that has frustrated me about Kemba recently is he often plays defense with his hands down on his sides, even when he is engaged in on the ball defense. That seems like something that any good coach would immediately correct.

That seems like something that any good player wouldn't do so no coach would have to immediately correct.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Yeah, that also.

[JDR720]

his defense has been decent for the most part, the closer to the rim he gets the more he struggles because of his size.

looking at his tracking defense stats, he is an average 3pt defender, slightly below average midrange defender and bad paint/close defender. putting his hands up should help him though, perhaps lessening his offensive role will help him on defense. he is our only player that can consistently create his own shot so thats probably not a realistic thing this season.

[ChokeFasncists]

It's frustrating that Kemba, despite having added talent this year with Batum, Lin, and Lamb, is averaging a career high for shot attempts per game.

To be fair, he was doing very well in that area at the beginning of the year when guys were healthy. His FG% went way down with Al out and Batum/Lin hobbled.

It'd be interesting to see whether he'll get back to the beginning of the year form or it was an anomaly.

Another concern is whether he and MKG are a good fit offensively.

[BigSlam]

It's frustrating that Kemba, despite having added talent this year with Batum, Lin, and Lamb, is averaging a career high for shot attempts per game.

To be fair, he was doing very well in that area at the beginning of the year when guys were healthy. His FG% went way down with Al out and Batum/Lin hobbled.

It'd be interesting to see whether he'll get back to the beginning of the year form or it was an anomaly.

Another concern is whether he and MKG are a good fit offensively.

Not field goal percentage, field goal attempts per game.

I think it's an interesting thing to consider.

We were all looking forward to Kemba having more offensive weapons around him that he could use and to take the pressure off him, yet even with the additional offensive weapons around him not only has his assists per game gone down (in fact outside of his rookie season his assists per game are the lowest they have been in his career) but his field goal attempts per game have gone up and are the highest per game of his career.

So how is he utilizing the additional offensive weapons around him?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[qiantom]

It's frustrating that Kemba, despite having added talent this year with Batum, Lin, and Lamb, is averaging a career high for shot attempts per game.

To be fair, he was doing very well in that area at the beginning of the year when guys were healthy. His FG% went way down with Al out and Batum/Lin hobbled.

It'd be interesting to see whether he'll get back to the beginning of the year form or it was an anomaly.

Another concern is whether he and MKG are a good fit offensively.

Not field goal percentage, field goal attempts per game.

I think it's an interesting thing to consider.

We were all looking forward to Kemba having more offensive weapons around him that he could use and to take the pressure off him, yet even with the additional offensive weapons around him not only has his assists per game gone down (in fact outside of his rookie season his assists per game are the lowest they have been in his career) but his field goal attempts per game have gone up and are the highest per game of his career.

So how is he utilizing the additional offensive weapons around him?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

He has utilized them by increasing his shooting efficiency? I think his eFG% and TS% are both the highest of his career. He just likes to shoot. The better players he has around him, the better shooting opportunities he can get for himself and so he shoots more. He does not look to set up teammates and I do not think that is gonna change at this point of his career. I think the organization has pretty much given up on that too, which is why they got Batum to be the main facilitator on offense.

[ChokeFasncists]

It's frustrating that Kemba, despite having added talent this year with Batum, Lin, and Lamb, is averaging a career high for shot attempts per game.

To be fair, he was doing very well in that area at the beginning of the year when guys were healthy. His FG% went way down with Al out and Batum/Lin hobbled.

It'd be interesting to see whether he'll get back to the beginning of the year form or it was an anomaly.

Another concern is whether he and MKG are a good fit offensively.

Not field goal percentage, field goal attempts per game.

I was talking about both. His attempts went up and his FG% went down. That's doubly not good. I don't think anyone would have a big problem with his increased attempts if his FG% increases to above 50.

I think it's an interesting thing to consider.

We were all looking forward to Kemba having more offensive weapons around him that he could use and to take the pressure off him, yet even with the additional offensive weapons around him not only has his assists per game gone down (in fact outside of his rookie season his assists per game are the lowest they have been in his career) but his field goal attempts per game have gone up and are the highest per game of his career.

So how is he utilizing the additional offensive weapons around him?

His assists number went down probably cuz of Batum and Lin.

OTOH, he probably uses the additional offensive weapons around him to distract the defense so he has more space to work with.