Z-Rex: The Cody Zeller Thread

[JDR720]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/0 ... eller.html

“When Cody went to practice at Indiana, probably if he’s at 70 percent concentration, he’s still the only 7-footer there. Those guys can’t keep him from doing things. Here, if he’s not on,” he’ll be dominated.

“He’s made gains. But he needs to learn how to act like a pro, think like a pro, practice like a pro, play like a pro. That’s not easy to do at 20 or 21 years old,” Clifford said.

“It’s his hips, his core, his back. It takes some time,” Clifford said.

“Everyone on the court is so talented that there is not much room for error,” Zeller said. “On defense if you’re a step late, it’s an easy layup. If you hesitate a little bit on offense it’s the difference between two points and a turnover.”

“I’ve always been undersized,” Zeller said. “Even when you’re not the strongest guy, you need to play strong. It’s outworking your guy, using advantages you do have. Obviously I can put on some weight, but I’m never going to be 280.”

“I’ve dealt with pressure my whole life,” said Zeller

“You just have to worry about what coaches are telling you, what your teammates are saying. Not worry about what the media is saying or the fans. They aren’t in the locker room, they aren’t on the practice court.”

“People think by throwing them out there, they get better. I don’t agree,” Clifford said. “I want a role that 1) he earns and 2) that he can play well in. If that’s 16 minutes right now, then that’s what he needs to be.”

[mrknowitall215]

“I’ve always been undersized,” Zeller said.

Undersized? How, mentally? There's players half Zeller's size that finish better than him around the rim

[fatlever]

“I’ve always been undersized,” Zeller said.

Undersized? How, mentally? There's players half Zeller's size that finish better than him around the rim

that quote made me confused as well. undersized compared to his older brothers? i know he previously talked about how he had to play guard growing up because his brothers were bigger, since they were older and they played down low.

[Eoghan]

"That guy has hips like a woman" - Butt-head, on Robert Plant.

[mrknowitall215]

Bobcats want to see No. 4 pick Zeller get stronger

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — Cody Zeller isn't a small man, standing 7-foot tall and weighing 240 pounds.

But the Charlotte Bobcats want to see the rookie power forward get stronger.

Coach Steve Clifford said Zeller needs more "functional strength" in his hips, core and back if he's going to have a bigger impact at the NBA level.

The Bobcats selected Zeller with the No. 4 pick in the 2013 draft hoping he'd become an impact player right away and compete for a starting spot with Josh McRoberts.

That hasn't happened yet.

Instead, Zeller has settled into a backup role for Charlotte, averaging five points and 3.8 rebounds in 16.7 minutes per game. At times, like Wednesday night against the Clippers' Blake Griffin, he's been pushed around in the low post on defense.

Clifford said the Bobcats haven't lost confidence in the former Indiana star, but stressed Zeller needs "a good summer" to become stronger.

"Guys come in and they can lift, but to play well at this level... Hey, when Blake Griffin hits something, normally he goes straight (to where he wants to be) and the other guy goes that way," Clifford said.

Zeller said building strength is something he plans to work on in the offseason, but in the meantime will do the best with the tools he possesses.

"I've always been undersized," Zeller said. "Even when you're not the strongest guy you need to play strong. It's outworking your guy, using advantages you do have. Obviously I can put on some weight, but I'm never going to be 280 (pounds), one of those guys."

Clifford said that while Zeller has "exceptional ability" and lauds his basketball IQ and work ethic, he said some of that hasn't shown through on the court because of his lack of strength.

Until Zeller gets stronger, Clifford said he isn't going to push him to do more than he's capable of handling.

So while other top ten rookie draft picks like Victor Oladipo, Ben McLemore, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Trey Burke are averaging more than 23 minutes per game, Clifford said Zeller might have to be content with making the most of his 16 minutes per game.

Clifford said he doesn't believe in playing Zeller just for the sake of gaining experience.

"With so many guys their confidence is just shot because people think that by throwing them out there they get better," Clifford said. "I don't agree with that. I want a role that, one, he earns and, two, that he can play well in."

Clippers coach Doc Rivers said he knows transitioning from college to the NBA isn't easy, but he's seen Zeller play and is confident he has the ability to succeed.

He expects Zeller will improve in the second half of the season and even more next year once he's had a chance to play against teams multiple times.

"It's just tough, the speed and the size alone is so difficult," Rivers said. "And the higher the (draft) pick the more you're a target. I think he's had some good games. He's been up and down, as you'd expect. ... But this league is hard. It's hard when you know the league, let alone when you don't know the league."

Zeller certainly isn't the first top 10 pick to struggle to find his way in the NBA.

This season's top pick, Cleveland's Anthony Bennett, is averaging only 2.4 points per game and 10.4 minutes.

Oladipo, Zeller's college teammate and the No. 2 overall pick, has excelled as a rookie averaging 13.7 points in 31.8 minutes, but No. 3 pick Otto Porter is averaging just 1.8 points in 9.7 minutes per game.

Of the top 10 rookie draft picks, Zeller is fifth in minutes played per game.

The 21-year-old Zeller said turning pro has been a "learning process," but feels like he's improving.

He also said he's embracing his role.

"I'm not getting the stats, but I understand what the team needs," Zeller said. "We've got Big Al (Jefferson) inside. We've got Kemba (Walker). I do a lot of the dirty work — be an energy guy. That's what coach wants from me and I embrace my role. I'll do whatever it takes to win."

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/23 ... -pick.html

[Red Larrivee]

An "undersized" 7-footer with the 4th pick in the draft? What a steal.

The sad part is Kelly Olynyk, a similar talent who was taken nine spots later is having a better season than Zeller. Olynyk has even made some 3-pointers.

Zeller, advertised as a stretch four by Rod Higgins and Rich Cho despite only attempting two 3-pointers from the college line, has attempted one 3-pointer this season and is hitting 26% of his jump shots.

All of this is rounded out by awful defense, average rebounding, and having zero impact on the game with his "great" athleticism. There's no question Zeller can jump better than your typical big man, but he doesn't impact the game athletically and never did. He has draft-combine athleticism, not in-game athleticism.

The Bobcats wouldn't be any worse if they had taken Nerlens Noel and let him recover from ACL surgery. Noel won't score, but at the very least he'll impact the game athletically, defend, and fit better next to Al Jefferson.

[mrknowitall215]

An "undersized" 7-footer with the 4th pick in the draft? What a steal.

The sad part is Kelly Olynyk, a similar talent who was taken nine spots later is having a better season than Zeller. Olynyk has even made some 3-pointers.

Zeller, advertised as a stretch four by Rod Higgins and Rich Cho despite only attempting two 3-pointers from the college line, has attempted one 3-pointer this season and is hitting 26% of his jump shots.

All of this is rounded out by awful defense, average rebounding, and having zero impact on the game with his "great" athleticism. There's no question Zeller can jump better than your typical big man, but he doesn't impact the game athletically and never did. He has draft-combine athleticism, not in-game athleticism.

The Bobcats wouldn't be any worse if they had taken Nerlens Noel and let him recover from ACL surgery. Noel won't score, but at the very least he'll impact the game athletically, defend, and fit better next to Al Jefferson.

[BadMofoPimp]

I am fairly certain that Noel won't be the impact player people think he should automatically be. Probably no better than Bismark. Noel will get pushed around like a rag doll in the NBA.

[Red Larrivee]

I am fairly certain that Noel won't be the impact player people think he should automatically be. Probably no better than Bismark. Noel will get pushed around like a rag doll in the NBA.

He'll definitely get pushed around, but at least he'll be a plus on one end of the floor. Zeller isn't a plus for the Bobcats on either side of the ball and posses no elite skill. Zeller's best attribute in college was drawing fouls. He had something like 10 free throw attempts per 40 minutes. He's at 3.4 FTA per 36 minutes.

Noel will at least give you high-level shot-blocking and elite athleticism once he knocks the rust off.

[mrknowitall215]

Nerlens Noel would've been the perfect compliment to Al Jefferson as a defensive specialist that could protect the rim as well as defend perimeter-oriented bigs away from it. I still hold out some hope for Cody Zeller, but a lot of that hinges on him becoming a consistent jump shooter from at least 15 feet out. A lot of people, even Clifford, think if Zeller get stronger that he'll instantly become a better player, but I tend to disagree with that notion. Zeller need to learn how to play within his finesse style of play, and that involves developing a jump shot that'll bring defenders out to him, so he can use his quickness & athleticism to his advantage to blow by them

[tondi123]

If Zeller can just become fairly automatic from 18-20 feet he instantly becomes a much more valuable player. He is never going to be a guy who camps out in the lane, or probably ever becomes a 3pt threat, but if he were to somewhat master that mid range game that would probably be good enough to keep him on the floor.

[mrknowitall215]

How comparable is Cody Zeller to Jan Vesely? I'm about to look up both of their combine results to compare their athleticism, quickness, & agility, but off the top of my head they seem awfully similar

UPDATE: I can't compare their pre-draft combine results because it appears that Vesely never participated

[JDR720]

How comparable is Cody Zeller to Jan Vesely? I'm about to look up both of their combine results to compare their athleticism, quickness, & agility, but off the top of my head they seem awfully similar

UPDATE: I can't compare their pre-draft combine results because it appears that Vesely never participated

they are similar from an athletic standpoint but their games are very different

[mrknowitall215]

How comparable is Cody Zeller to Jan Vesely? I'm about to look up both of their combine results to compare their athleticism, quickness, & agility, but off the top of my head they seem awfully similar

UPDATE: I can't compare their pre-draft combine results because it appears that Vesely never participated

they are similar from an athletic standpoint but their games are very different

The only varying part about their games to me is how Zeller played at Indiana. It would be difficult to truly compare unless Vesely played collegiate basketball where a coach restricted him to post play, in which he didn't, but based on NBA play so far, they are very similar players outside of the fact that Vesely doesn't dare to attempt to be a stretch 4 in the manner that Zeller does. When I watch Vesely in-game highlights it's almost like watching a mirror image of Zeller, with more alley oops

[mrknowitall215]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JohnCTownsend/status/420715085049253888[/tweet]

Before anybody take my previous post the wrong way, I agree with this tweet

[mrknowitall215]

A hindsight prospectus on Cody Zeller...

Twitter: "Cody Zeller Sucks"

Friday, March 29, 2013

The best and worst part of the NCAA Tournament are all the added interested viewers. Twitter is flooded by opinions from both NBA bloggers and college basketball scribes alike - each offering their own perspective. Many times, NBA bloggers will be watching a prospect for the first time and either highly overrated or underrate the player based on one performance while the college guys remain even keel as they've seen both the highs and lows of these guys.

In the case of Cody Zeller last night, it seemed both sides rallied around a similar belief that Cody Zeller is overrated as a NBA prospect. Zeller had 6 of his shots blocks and looked overwhelmed inside by the size and athleticism of Syracuse. This was evident to anyone watching the game and didn't take an expert to come away with this inclusion. And the college writers agreed with this notion not because of this one game, but because this is something that has been evident all year. So for once, both sets of writers had the same opinion.

This opinion is something that can't really be argued. Watch the film against teams with NBA size like Michigan State, Minnesota, or a physical frontline like Wisconsin's. Zeller has a tendency to go right into the bodies of defenders and has several of his shots blocked. His drives to the basket can become both easy to see coming and easy to predict how the play will end. When Zeller takes it into the body of defenders, a lot of times it seems like he is stuck to the floor - not necessarily because he can't jump - but because his arms are barely long enough to extend from his body. His abnormally short wingspan is a reason why many are skeptical about his ability to succeed at the next level.

The scouting report of Zeller's strengths and weaknesses are fairly simple. It doesnt take much time watching Zeller to realize what he struggles with and what he does well. Thats why last night on Twitter, seemingly everyone I followed repeated the same concerns over Zeller's ability at the next level. But scouting isn't simply about evaluating strengths and weaknesses and determining if the player played well. Anyone who watches any amount of tape on Zeller will come up with a similar scouting report and recognize the situations where he struggled.

There is another piece of the puzzle that both college basketball and NBA writers alike don't see. Scouting is about more than meets the eye, which is usually all writers look at. They'll watch the player and evaluate how he played. Simple enough, but thats something everyone can do and it doesn't separate you from the field in terms of projecting talent to the next level. A scout has to think outside the box, put himself in a players shoes, and picture him in situations different from his current one in order to determine how he will succeed.

In Zeller's current situation, he is the center of a basketball team that has no other inside presence. One of his point guards is a freshman who is learning how to pass and the other guy is a senior who rarely penetrates or makes plays at all. At power forward, there is a stretch forward who struggles against physical play but fares well in his position away from the basket.

A large problem in Zeller's game is coaching and personnel. Zeller is asked to be the big man for Indiana and play like a center. Zeller constantly takes it to the basket and into defenders' bodies despite the mixed results. There is no questioning Zeller's skillset, but at Indiana it seems he actually plays against his strengths and puts his weaknesses on display.

Zeller is just another guy that needs to be used the right way. Right now, he's not being put in a situation that makes him look great. And for guys like McDonough, this is where their expertise separate themselves from the pundits who spend their time posting opinions on twitter.

You see, Zeller isn't a center and will never be a center. So when you talk about his short wingspan, his weakness finishing against longer, athletic players, his lack of strength, and his inability to be an intimidating defensive presence at the rim - these are all things that can be negated if he's playing a different position. A position that he is meant for - power forward.

Crean shouldn't get all the blame for misusing Zeller. A lot of it has to do with personnel. But we saw how unprepared Indiana's offense looked against Syracuse's zone - as if they didn't expect it - and we saw how Zeller was used. At some point, Zeller refusing to take jumpers and utilizing more touch around the basket has to fall on his coaching. Zeller has been playing this style all year and all Crean has to do is encourage him to shoot more, have him set more ball screens, and get him out of the low post. Pitino did it with Dieng. Its not a big adjustment. But I guess Crean feels the need to have a presence in the post and at the rim, so thats the role Zeller has been relegated to.

Think about it though. You have a guy that can shoot the ball, has the ability to face up, has good touch at the rim, can pass off the dribble better than just about any big, handles the ball well, runs the court in transition, is excellent coming off ball screens, and is a better athlete in terms of coordination than explosiveness. Nevermind his position in college, that screams NBA power forward and thats just looking at his offensive ability. Throw in his perimeter defense, his ability to rotate and defend pick and rolls, his footwork, and his lack of rim protecting skills and there is absolutely no reason to ever look at him as a center prospect. Instead, he's an ideal power forward prospect. While people saw his inability to finish inside last night, I came away satisfied with how he was able to stick with CJ Fair whenever they were matched up together.

Whether or not this effects Zeller's stock is something I can't tell you, but what I can guarantee is there is a smart GM sitting outside the top 10 that would love for Zeller to fall in their laps.

http://nbaprospects.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... sucks.html

I found the red highlighted portions interesting and a thorough evaluation of the Zeller is playing now in the NBA. The underlined paragraph must be how Cho observed Zeller, which made him believe in him enough to take him at 4th overall

[catch20two]

All I know is that I can't recall seeing a 7 footer make finishing around the rim seem so difficult. I thought Biz had his struggles but he was a little better than Zeller. I don't know if the percentages will back me up on that but off the eye test it seem that way. He can't do nothing but get better from here so I ain't trippin' too much.

[mrknowitall215]

All I know is that I can't recall seeing a 7 footer make finishing around the rim seem so difficult. I thought Biz had his struggles but he was a little better than Zeller. I don't know if the percentages will back me up on that but off the eye test it seem that way. He can't do nothing but get better from here so I ain't trippin' too much.

I looked it up, and Zeller is indeed in rare company with only a handful of 7-foot players that has shot such low percentages, including a skeletal Manute Bol, a jovial Jason Collins, a rookie Nikoloz Tskitishvili, and Will Perdue on his last leg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

[thruthefire]

An "undersized" 7-footer with the 4th pick in the draft? What a steal.

Zeller calling himself undersized perplexed me as well. Perhaps he meant undersized arms.

[Eoghan]

I am fairly certain that Noel won't be the impact player people think he should automatically be. Probably no better than Bismark. Noel will get pushed around like a rag doll in the NBA.

Of course not, Bismarck was a force back in the day: