Kemba's staying no matter what, right or wrong?

[fatlever]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2817259-kemba-walker-trade-rumors-mavs-interested-michael-jordan-wants-to-re-sign-pg

Read on Twitter

[316Hornets]

Yeah, it's pretty much a 0% chance we trade Kemba with the ASG in town and him being one of the leading votegetters. Thread can probably be locked.

[catch20two]

Currently the playoffs look like a highly possible goal and I think that’s why the front office is content with holding onto Kemba.

I’d just hate for them to go past this trade deadline without making any move or else I think we risk losing Kemba for nothing and still being in cap hell with Batum.

[yosemiteben]

If we were going to trade Kemba, we waited too long. His value was greater last trade deadline.

I agree catch we can't not do anything, have to make a move.

[dmutombo321]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2817259-kemba-walker-trade-rumors-mavs-interested-michael-jordan-wants-to-re-sign-pg

Read on Twitter

Not the least bit surprising but disappointing nonetheless.
Jordan will max Walker, they'll then be capped out and the franchise will continue to tread water in 36-42 win no-man's-land for the next 5 seasons

Its a shame as a package centered around something like Smith Jr, a possible draft pick and/or also offloading Batum's contract for Barnes would have been a good first step towards an appropriate and much needed rebuild. If they were smart, they'd also be on the phone with Denver inquiring about Jamal Murray.

Charlotte will foolishly stand pat though. The best they can hope for is limping into the playoffs as a sub-.500 8th seed to get annihilated by Toronto or Milwaukee. Then they can max Kemba this summer, add an inconsequential rookie with their draft pick in the teens, an extraneous role player FA with their MLE after Lamb walks since they'll be over the cap and then rinse/repeat this whole meaningless exercise in basketball irrelevancy again next year.

[catch20two]

We have to wait and see what Kupchak can pull off.

[yosemiteben]

For the record, I strongly disagree that moving Kemba is or ever was the right move for this franchise.

[catch20two]

For the record, I strongly disagree that moving Kemba is or ever was the right move for this franchise.

July will be telling.

[316Hornets]

For the record, I strongly disagree that moving Kemba is or ever was the right move for this franchise.

July will be telling.

You really think Kemba is going to leave the city that crowned him? The ASG is going to be the Kemba show man. He's not going to get the fame anywhere else that he gets here.

[catch20two]

For the record, I strongly disagree that moving Kemba is or ever was the right move for this franchise.

July will be telling.

You really think Kemba is going to leave the city that crowned him? The ASG is going to be the Kemba show man. He's not going to get the fame anywhere else that he gets here.

Kemba could easily get more fame elsewhere. Being in Charlotte has actually hindered his popularity and is the reason he’s underrated to an extent. Just imagine if he took the Knicks to the playoffs or played alongside LeBron on the Lakers. But with more acclaim comes more criticism.

However I think Kemba appreciates the opportunity to showcase how good he can be. I don’t think he would’ve gotten that fair shake somewhere else. That’s why he feels like he owes Charlotte so much. But at the end of the day the NBA is a business and he’s almost at the tail end of his prime.

Kemba has been underpaid for the past couple years. 2019 will likely be Kemba’s one and only BIG payday. He’s not taking less than the max to stay in Charlotte and there will be a few teams willing to pay it to him like Indiana and Dallas among others.

[yosemiteben]

I don't think July matters. We should have kept Kemba. We also should continue to improve as a team with other moves. If he leaves because we don't do that, that's on the FO.

[catch20two]

I don't think July matters. We should have kept Kemba. We also should continue to improve as a team with other moves. If he leaves because we don't do that, that's on the FO.

The decision that Kemba makes in July is all that matters.

[Najee12]

I am convinced that many Charlotte Hornets fans are so used to being bad that they are afraid of any success.

Let me understand, some people think the most logical solution to making Charlotte a better team is to trade its best player -- who is 28 years, will be playing in his third All-Star Game and is arguably the best guard in the Eastern Conference this season -- for some lesser parts. Wouldn't it make more sense to try to unload the marginal players with the bad contracts (see Nicholas Batum, Bismack Biyombo, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Marvin Williams and Cody Zeller)?

It's idiocy to overpay for marginal players (thanks, Rich Cho) and then keep them while wanting to get rid of the player who actually makes Charlotte relevant. That's bad management thinking. And some of these ideas are head-scratchers. Dennis Smith Jr. looks like the bad version of Steve Francis (the end of the Orlando run to the end of his career version). Jamal Murray is Denver's second best player and the Nuggets are not going to give him up for a potential rental player.

Charlotte should try to get rid of the trash around Walker and move forward. Ideally, the Hornets should want Walker back but you have to think what kind of team will be around him during the next contract. By any measure, it's hard to build a team where one guy is making $25 million per year and putting up seventh-man numbers (Batum) and several other role players make $15 million-plus per year. Walker also has the option of considering if he wants to come back to this team as poorly constructed as the Hornets.

It's not Walker's fault the Hornets have a bad team, so instead of making him the fall guy the organization should step up and build a competent team. Because whether he stays or goes, Charlotte still has those marginal players on bad contracts.

[catch20two]

I am convinced that many Charlotte Hornets fans are so used to being bad that they are afraid of any success.

Let me understand, some people think the most logical solution to making Charlotte a better team is to trade its best player -- who is 28 years, will be playing in his third All-Star Game and is arguably the best guard in the Eastern Conference -- for some lesser parts. Wouldn't it make more sense to try to unload the marginal players with the bad contracts (see Nicholas Batum, Bismack Biyombo, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Marvin Williams and Cody Zeller)?

It's idiocy to overpay for marginal players (thanks, Rich Cho) and then keep them while wanting to get rid of the player who actually makes Charlotte relevant. That's bad management thinking. And some of these ideas are head-scratchers. Dennis Smith Jr. looks like the bad version of Steve Francis (the end of the Orlando run to the end of his career version). Jamal Murray is Denver's second best player and the Nuggets are not going to give him up for a potential rental player.

Charlotte should try to get rid of the trash around Walker and move forward. Ideally, the Hornets should want Walker back but you have to think what kind of team will be around him during the next contract. By any measure, it's hard to build a team where one guy is making $25 million per year and putting up seventh-man numbers (Batum) and several other role players making $15 million-plus per year. Walker also has the option of considering if he wants to come back to this team as poorly constructed as the Hornets.

It's not Walker's fault the Hornets have a bad team, so instead of making him the fall guy the organization should step up and build a competent team. Because whether he stays or goes, Charlotte still has those marginal players on bad contracts.

The decision to bring Kemba back isn’t in the front office’s hands and making a decent playoff run is the best chance to persuade him to return. It’s a tough spot.

But you hit the nail right on the head about us having too many marginal players on bad contracts thanks to Cho being incompetent.

[Najee12]

The decision to bring Kemba back isn’t in the front office’s hands and making a decent playoff run is the best chance to persuade him to return. It’s a tough spot.

By any measure, there still is the matter of getting rid of the bad players with the big contracts. If Kemba Walker leaves on his own in free agency, Charlotte is going into the 2019-20 season with a core of Nicolas Batum, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Marvin Williams and Cody Zeller. If Walker stays, those players still will be there.

Walker is not the issue, it's the likes of Bismack Biyombo, Batum, Kidd-Gilchrist, Williams and Cody Zeller still being on the team.

[dmutombo321]

Let me understand, some people think the most logical solution to making Charlotte a better team is to trade its best player -- who is 28 years, will be playing in his third All-Star Game and is arguably the best guard in the Eastern Conference this season -- for some lesser parts. Wouldn't it make more sense to try to unload the marginal players with the bad contracts (see Nicholas Batum, Bismack Biyombo, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Marvin Williams and Cody Zeller)?

The club's dilemma is that no other team is going to take those marginal players with poor contracts off their hands. They're stuck with Batum until 2021. It's not Walker's fault that management handed out all those bad deals and ruined their payroll. But that's the position they're in. Charlotte trading its best player, is in the franchise's best interest long term if it hopes to be a contender in the East, as opposed to the perennial fringe playoff team it is presently. A new team is also in Kemba's best interest if he ever aspires to enjoy deep playoff runs or to ever contend for a title, as its not happening here in Charlotte with this roster if he resigns.

Kemba resigns on a max deal --- The team is stuck in 36-42 win territory for the next 5 years. No meaningful help will be coming via free agency as they'll lack the space and maneuverability to do so. No meaningful help will be coming via trade since, apart from Bridges and Monk, most of their pieces have negligible trade value or in the case of Batum, are liabilities. Most years they'll miss the playoffs, 1-2 of those seasons they might sneak in to serve as a first round door mat to higher seeded teams.

Kemba is dealt --- The team will be worse in the immediate term but improve its draft status this year to the 5-7 range and can probably count on a top 5 selection the following year or two afterwords. In addition, it may be possible to unload one of their other less desirable contracts with him. Someone like DSJ has a lot of warts and may not turn out to be a long term answer at point but he's a young asset to help towards rebuilding. As others have noted, Charlotte could have (and should have) dealt him last year as Walker's value is now diminished by his impending free agency. A Jamal Murray would have been easily attainable last season but Denver would almost certainly be more reticent now with Kemba just months away from free agency. They're the second best team in the West though and Walker would represent an upgrade to their roster if they decide to roll the dice and go all in this year. Charlotte's clearly not making any inquiries or fielding offers however so its neither here nor there...

[yosemiteben]

I don't think July matters. We should have kept Kemba. We also should continue to improve as a team with other moves. If he leaves because we don't do that, that's on the FO.

The decision that Kemba makes in July is all that matters.

You can't judge in retrospect like that though. You can only judge on the information available at the time.

[catch20two]

I don't think July matters. We should have kept Kemba. We also should continue to improve as a team with other moves. If he leaves because we don't do that, that's on the FO.

The decision that Kemba makes in July is all that matters.

You can't judge in retrospect like that though. You can only judge on the information available at the time.

Neither of us know what the future holds and whether or not Kemba will choose to return to Charlotte via free-agency so we’ll find out in July. I don’t know why that’s coming off as such an abrasive statement to you lol.

It’s very possible Kupchak can’t find a trade worth entertaining before the deadline to improve the team as well as it’s possible for him to make a trade that appears to be a decent haul but ends up counterproductive.

Either way we won’t find out Kemba’s decision until July and that’s why July matters.

[Najee12]

The club's dilemma is that no other team is going to take those marginal players with poor contracts off their hands. They're stuck with Batum until 2021. It's not Walker's fault that management handed out all those bad deals and ruined their payroll. But that's the position they're in.

As a person who was a sports journalist who covered the Hornets in the 1990s for a North Carolina newspaper and has followed the NBA for decades, I disagree. All NBA players have trade value, positive or negative. Like any asset acquisition or sale, the questions become what does the seller want in return, what is the buyer willing to give up and whether all parties can agree to the terms.

Nicolas Batum obviously is a negative asset ($25 million-per-year contract with seventh-man production), but it is not unmovable as we have seen teams move players with bad contracts recently (see Ryan Anderson and another former Charlotte acquisition, Timofey Mozgov) or historically. The question is what does Charlotte want in return for the asset and what is it willing to do to get rid of the asset. Offering Frank Kaminsky as a "sweetener" as reported a few weeks ago only makes other teams laugh at the offer and question Charlotte's poor evaluation of talent.

The alternative is keeping Batum, who is having a negative influence on the team's present-day and long-term horizon at the cost of $60 million-plus over the remaining life of his contract. Think like a business owner or a department head of a major division that has a declining asset: Is it worth giving up a first-round pick or some young prospect to get rid of that $60 million-plus albatross? Or getting back nothing in return (expiring contracts, second-round picks) to get rid of that declining asset? To me, the answer is yes.

Charlotte just needs to take a loss on Batum and can't expect anything of value in return. The goal is to get rid of the bad asset, not to ask for something in return because the Hornets are negotiating from a position of weakness.

Charlotte trading its best player, is in the franchise's best interest long term if it hopes to be a contender in the East, as opposed to the perennial fringe playoff team it is presently.

Charlotte has been a low-level or middle-of-the-road team since the second franchise came to town for the following reasons:

* Poor leadership from the owners (first Robert Johnson, now Michael Jordan).
* A history of using first-round picks on decent-floor, low-ceiling players from big-name schools, particularly if the player has a good run in the NCAA tournament (Kemba Walker being the only one who has panned out).
* Going from one organization extreme (not wanting to pay players) to the other extreme (overpaying for bit players such as Batum, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Marvin Williams and Cody Zeller) in building a team.
* Having no community engagement or excitement among its product (I've met members of the Hornets' marketing communications team and they seemed rather clueless on strategies for promoting this franchise).

Whether you keep, trade or let Walker leave in free agency, all of those major organizational issues remain. None of them have anything to do with Walker so I don't see how trading Walker somehow makes those things go away.

A new team is also in Kemba's best interest if he ever aspires to enjoy deep playoff runs or to ever contend for a title, as its not happening here in Charlotte with this roster if he resigns.

So you're admitting Charlotte's problems are based on its front office, which could be the reason Walker leaves. Whether or not Walker stays, Charlotte still will have a team filled with bad contracts for bad players from which it is not willing to divest. The solution is to get rid of the bad assets (Batum, Biyombo, Kidd-Gilchrist, Williams and Zeller) and build around the good asset (Walker). But even if Walker leaves, Charlotte still has to get rid of the bad assets and the bad organizational culture.

[Najee12]

Kemba resigns on a max deal --- The team is stuck in 36-42 win territory for the next 5 years. No meaningful help will be coming via free agency as they'll lack the space and maneuverability to do so.

Here is one problem with your "Trade Kemba Walker" logic: Bad organizations remain bad organizations even if they trade away their best assets, because that bad organizational core remains. For example, the Minnesota Timberwolves traded a perennial MVP-caliber player in Kevin Garnett to Boston in 2007 for five players and two first-round picks -- and that organization did not get back to the playoffs until 10 years later. The Timberwolves organization still was bad after trading Garnett and received practically nothing in net value (outside of a couple of good seasons from Al Jefferson) for trading the best player in its history.

Walker will not demand nearly those kind of assets in a trade. He's an all-star level point guard, but he is not nearly as good as Garnett was in his prime. Walker has a cheap contract and is heading to free agency this summer, so teams are not to give up much in return for a potential rental. Walker plays the deepest position in the NBA, so there are not a lot of teams that need him that badly, especially now he is about to go into free agency.

This scenario is an example of a team negotiating from a position of weakness. No team should give away serious assets now for Walker because he will be a free agent at the end of the season. If anything, Charlotte should have traded Walker one year ago when he had another year on his current deal because teams would have more time to persuade him to stay. The only way such a trade would work now is if Walker agreed in principle to stay with the team that trades for him.

No meaningful help will be coming via trade since, apart from Bridges and Monk, most of their pieces have negligible trade value or in the case of Batum, are liabilities. Most years they'll miss the playoffs, 1-2 of those seasons they might sneak in to serve as a first round door mat to higher seeded teams.

You have that scenario now and it has everything to do with a bad organizational culture. Ask yourself this question: How does a team that is owned by arguably the most iconic player in NBA history -- and arguably the most impactful North American athlete of the 20th century -- have a such a lackluster product? Why isn't Charlotte on the radar of other players considering a lot of these players grew up idolizing Michael Jordan the player?

Answer: It's because a lot of today's players don't seem to like Michael Jordan the owner.

Jordan the owner has a reputation of being a hands-on owner who meddles in personnel decisions. Jordan the owner had a reputation of being cheap; now he is known for overpaying for bad players. Jordan the owner at one point was accused of looking at the Hornets as an investment and not being fully invested into the team. Jordan the owner seemed more interested in discussing his playing days in the public eye than being seen as the owner of an NBA franchise. Jordan the owner still rubs players the wrong way for siding with the owners in the 2012 labor negotiations and lockout.

It doesn't matter whether Walker is with Charlotte next year or not, this aspect needs to be cleaned up. When teams are willing to give up good assets because it made mistakes in acquiring bad assets -- and more importantly, retains bad assets and seemingly has no interest in getting rid of the bad assets -- no good players with options are going to choose that situation.

Kemba is dealt --- The team will be worse in the immediate term but improve its draft status this year to the 5-7 range and can probably count on a top 5 selection the following year or two afterwords. In addition, it may be possible to unload one of their other less desirable contracts with him.

Once again, you're arguing from a position of weakness. Walker can leave a team in a few months, so you have to be prepared to get little in return for Walker. Teams certainly are not taking on a bad contract for a rental player and give up something in value in the exchange.

Someone like DSJ has a lot of warts and may not turn out to be a long term answer at point but he's a young asset to help towards rebuilding. As others have noted, Charlotte could have (and should have) dealt him last year as Walker's value is now diminished by his impending free agency.

Quite frankly, this is the type of bad decision-making that makes Charlotte a low-level to marginal franchise. First, Rick Bonnell of The Charlotte Observer reported already that Charlotte shot down Dallas' inquiry of trading Walker for Dennis Smith Jr. Charlotte is not trading an all-star level player for a second-year player who already is on the way out with the team that drafted him.

Second, the reason Smith is on the way out with Dallas is because it is focusing its future on a guard who is most effective with the ball in his hands a lot (Luka Doncic). Walker is also a guard who is most effective with the ball in his hands a lot. Walker clearly is better than Smith but it's the same problem. Walker likely would leave Dallas at the end of the season.

Third, if Charlotte wanted Smith the team could have made a move to draft him in 2017. He went ninth in the draft, two spots ahead of Malik Monk. Or better yet, Charlotte could have drafted Donovan Mitchell instead of wasting the No. 11 pick on Monk.

This is yet another sign of bad foresight from the front office -- trading for assets at a premium price instead of acquiring them at lower prices. It's like when Charlotte reportedly was interested in trading for Bradley Beal, which was idiotic considering the team could have drafted Beal in 2012 instead of wasting the pick on a player with Tony Allen upside (Michael Kidd-Gilchrist).

Whether Walker stays or leaves, the problem is the organization. Trading Walker for spare parts will be just another example of the Hornets running a bad organization.