Prospect Thread: James Wiseman

[LofJ]

Mitchell Robinson was a top 10 HS recruit who dropped to the 2nd round because he didn't play college basketball. If he had played I highly doubt he would have dropped that far.

It's an example of how taking smart risks in the draft is a good idea. It's ironic that the Knicks of all teams did this, but the Nuggets are a well managed team that does this all the time. It pays off sometimes like MPJ and the McDermott trade back, and fails other times like the D Mitchell trade back. In the NBA, much like real life, you aren't going to get anywhere if you aren't willing to take risks.

We aren't going to draft a guaranteed all-star at 3, but in contradiction to what I said earlier I also believe that taking smart risks is necessary. I wouldn't advocate doing this for every draft (i.e. my solid double comment), but you can't always be risk averse and hope to be successful long-term.

[Braggins]

Mitchell Robinson was a top 10 HS recruit who dropped to the 2nd round because he didn't play college basketball. If he had played I highly doubt he would have dropped that far.

It's an example of how taking smart risks in the draft is a good idea. It's ironic that the Knicks of all teams did this, but the Nuggets are a well managed team that does this all the time. It pays off sometimes like MPJ and the McDermott trade back, and fails other times like the D Mitchell trade back. In the NBA, much like real life, you aren't going to get anywhere if you aren't willing to take risks.

We aren't going to draft a guaranteed all-star at 3, but in contradiction to what I said earlier I also believe that taking smart risks is necessary. I wouldn't advocate doing this for every draft (i.e. my solid double comment), but you can't always be risk averse and hope to be successful long-term.

Its looking like the Bol Bol pick could potentially pay some nice dividends for Denver as well.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Seems like lots of people are just deciding which player archetype they would prefer and then looking for the players that most closely resemble that archetype. A bad version of the best archetype is a worse player than a good version of less useful (but still useful) archetype. Like, if you were building a team and had a choice between Joel Embiid and Tobias Harris, you wouldn't take Harris because hes a wing scorer because Embiid is just obviously a much better player (not saying I think Wiseman is going to be Embiid btw), but this seems to the kind of thought process a lot of people are using.

This is rather disingenuous. We're not comparing a good player vs. a bad player of differing archetypes, we're literally discussing the top players in a draft where each of the top 3-5 guys have at least a chance of reaching all-star status.

It's not Embiid or Harris, it's probably closer to Embiid or Butler: similarly talented players of different archetypes. Including Harris insinuates people are advocating drafting someone like Patrick Williams at 3.

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[Braggins]

Seems like lots of people are just deciding which player archetype they would prefer and then looking for the players that most closely resemble that archetype. A bad version of the best archetype is a worse player than a good version of less useful (but still useful) archetype. Like, if you were building a team and had a choice between Joel Embiid and Tobias Harris, you wouldn't take Harris because hes a wing scorer because Embiid is just obviously a much better player (not saying I think Wiseman is going to be Embiid btw), but this seems to the kind of thought process a lot of people are using.

This is rather disingenuous. We're not comparing a good player vs. a bad player of differing archetypes, we're literally discussing the top players in a draft where each of the top 3-5 guys have at least a chance of reaching all-star status.

It's not Embiid or Harris, it's probably closer to Embiid or Butler: similarly talented players of different archetypes. Including Harris insinuates people are advocating drafting someone like Patrick Williams at 3.

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I was using Embiid/Harris to make my point, which is that player matters more than their position/archetype, because it was a clear example where youd want the center and not because I was comparing any of the specific players in this draft to either of those guys.

If someone wants to make an argument that the players being discussed are similarly talented based on their actual games then I have no problem with that and some people are having that conversation, but it also seems to be more of an assumption for some people based on where they are currently being mocked and some people are overemphasizing position/archetype as an argument for certain players. There are some arguments being made that basically boil down to "Ball/Edwards/Wiseman are being mocked as the top tier and guards/wings are better than bigs, therefore Ball/Edwards would be better picks for us than Wiseman". I'm not saying everyone sees it that way, but it seems to me like there are some people that do and I'm just pushing back against that kind of logic.

Its fine if you prefer Ball/Edwards and I said in an earlier post that if the front office concludes that Ball/Edwards are the best prospects then they should take them over Wiseman or whoever. I'm open to that possibility, but just not if the reason is just because they are perimeter players and Wiseman is a center and you shouldn't take centers at the top of the draft.

[Rich4114]

We get so hung up on comparisons and positions. If Wiseman was listed as a PF, would we all like him more then?

[316Hornets]

We get so hung up on comparisons and positions. If Wiseman was listed as a PF, would we all like him more then?

Not in the slightest. My biggest concern is his ability to defend. Besides protecting the rim with blocked shots, I don't get the impression that he is very good at defending from outside the paint. Most videos I see him lazily chasing after people who blow by him. I feel like he is a guy that will get abused fairly often on the pnr.

[Braggins]

We get so hung up on comparisons and positions. If Wiseman was listed as a PF, would we all like him more then?

Not in the slightest. My biggest concern is his ability to defend. Besides protecting the rim with blocked shots, I don't get the impression that he is very good at defending from outside the paint. Most videos I see him lazily chasing after people who blow by him. I feel like he is a guy that will get abused fairly often on the pnr.

He can still be a good defender without being very good at defending outside the paint and I think he has the tools to make some improvement in this area, but this is certainly a point in favor of Okongwu.

[316Hornets]

Here's my scouting report on Wiseman

Strengths:
Length, above average rebounder
Solid shot blocker
High motor
Fluid stroke, good free throw shooter for his size

Weaknesses:
Awareness, often looks out of place when challenged to defend outside the paint.
Not able to bully people in the paint, plays like a guard at times
Not a very adept passer, tunnel vision


The good news? Most of Wiseman's weaknesses are correctable with the right development. I'm just not sure you take a high lottery pick on someone with so many obvious flaws/lack of dominant upside.

He would obviously correct a lot of problems for us as we don't have anyone able to protect the paint and our rebounding is meh. I wouldn't hate the pick, but don't think he'd be bpa.

[JMAC3]

@Braggins

So you’re argument is based around you knowing that none of the guards or wings are good and you would rather draft a more sure thing at Center than Wiseman.

My point is that nobody knows whether wiseman will be better than them, that is just your opinion.

That same logic is what got Ayton and Bagley picked over Doncic and Young. Ayton and Bagley both were safer plays, and don’t say everyone knew Young and Doncic were going to be good for sure- otherwise they would of went 1st and 2nd.

That’s my point- we don’t know if Edwards, Ball and Deni are going to be stars but if we pass to draft a Center who can rebound, block shots and dunk when they are all orchestrating an entire offense and making others better (young/Doncic) then we are going to feel dumb.




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[JMAC3]

Also, for everyone saying Wiseman is skilled. Side by side I’m taking OO every day to be the guy who can figure out how to shoot.

Wiseman physical tools in terms of height and length are only thing keeping these two 4a and 4b for me.




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[amcoolio]

I'm beginning to sour on Wiseman. Watched a lot of tape on the top 3 and he does move very slow laterally. OO has him on everything but height and weight.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I'm beginning to sour on Wiseman. Watched a lot of tape on the top 3 and he does move very slow laterally. OO has him on everything but height and weight.

OO's listed weight is 5 pounds > than JW's. So Height is literally the only thing Wiseman has at this point.

[James Gatz]

Went through and watched the Oregon game after having a bit of back and forth on this thread. Couple of key takeaways:

Good
- Sets good screens and has excellent catch radius.
- Size is undeniable and led to a block without jumping.
- Straight line speed was impressive for his size.

Bad
- Majority of rebounds were uncontested and was outrebounded multiple times with 50/50 balls.
- Was switched out to a perimeter player twice and got beat both times.
- Got bullied in the post more than I expected. Two And1s scored on him.
- Foul trouble caused him to sit most of first half.
- Had trouble with help rotation.
- Memphis was outscored when he was on the floor by a decent margin.

Mixed
- Showed some touch on his jumper but all three shots were low percentage looks at the start of the shot clock.

[yosemiteben]

I'm beginning to sour on Wiseman. Watched a lot of tape on the top 3 and he does move very slow laterally. OO has him on everything but height and weight.

OO's listed weight is 5 pounds > than JW's. So Height is literally the only thing Wiseman has at this point.

Actually I believe the bigger difference is wingspan.

[amcoolio]

Just watching him he does remind me a lot of a slower Drummond without the on-ball guarding skills that Drummond was great at in the beginning of his career, but Wiseman has more size.

Just being so sluggish moving around besides running the floor for fast breaks worries me

A nice player to have, and definite #1 overall back in 2008, but I'm not so sure a top 5 pick now. He's more a complimentary piece for a team like the Warriors or Bulls if they can't trade the pick

[amcoolio]

Now we can take him and hope the NBA's rules change to a more physical style of play and the 3 point line gets moved back and then he would be a lot more valuable

[KGdaBom]

Wolves fan dropping in to see if you have a preference for Wiseman based on the strong possibility that we or the Warriors would take him. I'm impressed by your having individual threads for almost every player. Judging by this page it doesn't seem like you are very interested in Wiseman. I like your take on Okongwu. I have him as the second best player in the draft behind Wiseman. It is the length that separates him. Neither Edwards or Ball can shoot or defend. If we decide against one of the bigs I'm hoping for Avdija over Edwards and Ball.

[Braggins]

Wolves fan dropping in to see if you have a preference for Wiseman based on the strong possibility that we or the Warriors would take him. I'm impressed by your having individual threads for almost every player. Judging by this page it doesn't seem like you are very interested in Wiseman. I like your take on Okongwu. I have him as the second best player in the draft behind Wiseman. It is the length that separates him. Neither Edwards or Ball can shoot or defend. If we decide against one of the bigs I'm hoping for Avdija over Edwards and Ball.

I don't like Ball/Edwards(or Deni) and I like Wiseman/Okongwu at 3. I don't have a strong preference either way between Wiseman/Okongwu, but I have a similar opinion to you that Wiseman's length might give him a slightly higher ceiling. I also think some people are slightly underrating Wiseman's offensive potential. I don't think hes that likely to become a star on offense or anything, but I think he has the potential to develop some use beyond just being a dunk/lob finisher and nothing else, which could maybe go a long way on someone with his physical tools.

[KGdaBom]

Wolves fan dropping in to see if you have a preference for Wiseman based on the strong possibility that we or the Warriors would take him. I'm impressed by your having individual threads for almost every player. Judging by this page it doesn't seem like you are very interested in Wiseman. I like your take on Okongwu. I have him as the second best player in the draft behind Wiseman. It is the length that separates him. Neither Edwards or Ball can shoot or defend. If we decide against one of the bigs I'm hoping for Avdija over Edwards and Ball.

I don't like Ball/Edwards(or Deni) and I like Wiseman/Okongwu at 3. I don't have a strong preference either way between Wiseman/Okongwu, but I have a similar opinion to you that Wiseman's length might give him a slightly higher ceiling. I also think some people are slightly underrating Wiseman's offensive potential. I don't think hes that likely to become a star on offense or anything, but I think he has the potential to develop some use beyond just being a dunk/lob finisher and nothing else.

Thanks for the reply. I think Wiseman could definitely develop into a major offensive force. Okongwu IMO is the safest player in the draft with a very high floor. Wiseman I think also has a high floor and a higher ceiling. If we don't get Wiseman I sure hope you do. Anybody, but the Warriors.

[Braggins]

Wolves fan dropping in to see if you have a preference for Wiseman based on the strong possibility that we or the Warriors would take him. I'm impressed by your having individual threads for almost every player. Judging by this page it doesn't seem like you are very interested in Wiseman. I like your take on Okongwu. I have him as the second best player in the draft behind Wiseman. It is the length that separates him. Neither Edwards or Ball can shoot or defend. If we decide against one of the bigs I'm hoping for Avdija over Edwards and Ball.

I don't like Ball/Edwards(or Deni) and I like Wiseman/Okongwu at 3. I don't have a strong preference either way between Wiseman/Okongwu, but I have a similar opinion to you that Wiseman's length might give him a slightly higher ceiling. I also think some people are slightly underrating Wiseman's offensive potential. I don't think hes that likely to become a star on offense or anything, but I think he has the potential to develop some use beyond just being a dunk/lob finisher and nothing else.

Thanks for the reply. I think Wiseman could definitely develop into a major offensive force. Okongwu IMO is the safest player in the draft with a very high floor. Wiseman I think also has a high floor and a higher ceiling. If we don't get Wiseman I sure hope you do. Anybody, but the Warriors.

I actually also like the centers for you guys as well. I don't have much faith in any player in this draft becoming an offensive star and you already have an offensive superstar and sidekick with KAT/DLo. I don't like Ball/Edwards with your core at all.

I also think playing KAT with another big is fine if its the right player. Okongwu actually seems like a perfect fit with KAT as a PF/C combo on both ends of the floor. Wiseman isn't as seamless of a fit on defense, but if KAT can guard 4s then it can work well enough and if you think Wiseman has the higher upside thats typically the way to go.

I think the Hornets are in a perfect position to take BPA, but I just don't like Ball/Edwards so far from what Ive seen.