Aussie, Aussie, Aussie: The Josh Green Thread

HornetJail · Post #141 » by **HornetJail** » Thu Mar 13, 2025 4:31 pm

he's not even defending well these days

he's a min salary guy making the MLE. hope we can find a way out of that contract in the offseason

JMAC3 · Post #142 » by **JMAC3** » Thu Mar 13, 2025 4:32 pm

His defensive EPM is at 72% after starting the year incredibly bad, so at least seeing some improvement on that end. However he is still not worth this contract which is why I was pushing for him to be included in the Nurkic deal as a salary swap but instead we are sattled with both contracts and no cap space moving forward because of it.

Chapelchilla · Post #143 » by **Chapelchilla** » Thu Mar 13, 2025 7:44 pm

He is a 9th man type but starting.

Post #144 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Fri Mar 14, 2025 12:06 am

I was pretty down on him last night, especially with the direct comparison to Jeffries (I recall them sharing the court a lot, but could be mistaken). He had a great possession of ball denial (on Trae I think) late in the game that was valuable and he's had some spurts throughout the season, but I don't have a lot of confidence in him as a potential starter at this point. Fortunately for fans, a quarter of the roster is auditioning to fill his archetype, so hopefully a couple of those guys work out. I don't think his contact is so bad that he's an albatross or anything and I guess he's young enough to improve, but he's got to just to avoid get squished out by Jeffries and Okogie and the development wing rotation.

Snidely FC · Post #145 » by **Snidely FC** » Mon Jul 7, 2025 2:55 pm

Okogie & Daiquiries non-guaranteed most likely to be waived

NSJ rookie scale more likely to be waived

But Green? Who wants him on that kinda money?

They gonna waive 2 yrs $26M?

What’s to be done with Josh Green?

HornetJail · Post #146 » by **HornetJail** » Mon Jul 7, 2025 2:56 pm

trade him to the Jazz, they want to tank anyway lol

Post #147 » by **Diop** » Tue Jul 8, 2025 3:18 am

he will cost assets to move most likely, i think we have him for the year

GoBobs · Post #148 » by **GoBobs** » Tue Jul 8, 2025 4:26 am

We just need him to play the Dort, Caruso, Jalen Wells, hatchet man sort of role.

Josh Green is the type of player who becomes a lot better if he is allowed to hand check a little bit. I am fine trading him. I am fine with keeping him.

He isn't nearly as bad as his detractors here believe.

Snidely FC · Post #149 » by **Snidely FC** » Tue Jul 8, 2025 1:30 pm

Lamelo Mann Dinnwiddie
Sexton Kon Sion
Miller Connaughton Liam
Miles Grant Tidjane
Moose Kalk Plumlee

Green?

The point is not that I don't think Green can be useful, the point is the team has the above 15 other players under contract, 9(!) of whom they just signed.

So if you keep Green which one of those guys is waived or shipped?

Which player do you think loses their spot to keep Josh Green?

Chapelchilla · Post #150 » by **Chapelchilla** » Tue Jul 8, 2025 2:22 pm

Snidely FC wrote:Lamelo Mann Dinnwiddie
Sexton Kon Sion
Miller Connaughton Liam
Miles Grant Tidjane
Moose Kalk Plumlee

Green?

The point is not that I don't think Green can be useful, the point is the team has the above 15 other players under contract, 9(!) of whom they just signed.

So if you keep Green which one of those guys is waived or shipped?

Which player do you think loses their spot to keep Josh Green?

Connaughton? Both guys maybe on the way out but Pat has a one year deal and could be moved elsewhere.

Post #151 » by **Diop** » Wed Jul 9, 2025 12:29 am

Conn does seem easier to move.

wilson115 · Post #152 » by **wilson115** » Wed Jul 9, 2025 1:07 am

Conn has that championship connection with Charles from their time in MIL though. We'll see.

Post #153 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Jul 29, 2025 6:57 pm

I think Josh Green presents an interesting dilemma for us. I'm really scratching my head at his statistical production last season. We all know we had a 3 point heavy offense last season, and we just added a lot of perimeter talent that points to us continuing to make perimeter shooting a core part of the offense. This is also validated by Lee's coaching background, as both MIL and BOS had 3 point heavy offenses that encouraged points at the basket and on the perimeter and minimized midrange shots.

You look at Josh Green, and he shot 39% from three last season. If you read my first paragraph and only knew that one stat from Green, you'd assume he must have had high volume. Then you see that he only attempted 6.3 3s per 36 minutes, which ranked - wait for it - 16th on the team last season. Guys like Micic, Daquan Jeffries, Salaun, and KJ all averaged more 3 point attempts.

I don't think this is the coach's intent, and it clearly doesn't fit our offensive identity. I'm really scratching my head at why we didn't force Green to take substantially more shots, particularly when Brandon went down.

He's just a real head scratcher of a player and I'm not sure what to make of the Josh Green experience last season.

HornetJail · Post #154 » by **HornetJail** » Tue Jul 29, 2025 7:03 pm

yosemiteben wrote:I'm really scratching my head at why we didn't force Green to take substantially more shots, particularly when Brandon went down.

because he isn't capable of it. He is 100% reliant on people feeding him wide open shots. He pretty much only takes the open looks because he can't do anything when even slightly guarded. 39% on a diet of only open looks is not actually good.

Post #155 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Jul 29, 2025 9:17 pm

HornetJail wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:I'm really scratching my head at why we didn't force Green to take substantially more shots, particularly when Brandon went down.

because he isn't capable of it. He is 100% reliant on people feeding him wide open shots. He pretty much only takes the open looks because he can't do anything when even slightly guarded. 39% on a diet of only open looks is not actually good.

I don't know, after researching a bit I think that's more narrative driven rather than supported by stats.

The NBA stats site says on 3 PT shots where the closest defender was 2-4 ft (considered to be "tight"), he shot 40%. Admittedly on low volume, but that's not a sign to me that he can't shot when guarded.

HornetJail · Post #156 » by **HornetJail** » Tue Jul 29, 2025 9:28 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
HornetJail wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:I'm really scratching my head at why we didn't force Green to take substantially more shots, particularly when Brandon went down.

because he isn't capable of it. He is 100% reliant on people feeding him wide open shots. He pretty much only takes the open looks because he can't do anything when even slightly guarded. 39% on a diet of only open looks is not actually good.

I don't know, after researching a bit I think that's more narrative driven rather than supported by stats.

The NBA stats site says on 3 PT shots where the closest defender was 2-4 ft (considered to be "tight"), he shot 40%. Admittedly on low volume, but that's not a sign to me that he can't shot when guarded.

how low is that volume? if it's like 20 total attempts or something really low like that, it's nowhere close to statistically significant

Post #157 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Jul 29, 2025 9:32 pm

HornetJail wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
HornetJail wrote:because he isn't capable of it. He is 100% reliant on people feeding him wide open shots. He pretty much only takes the open looks because he can't do anything when even slightly guarded. 39% on a diet of only open looks is not actually good.

I don't know, after researching a bit I think that's more narrative driven rather than supported by stats.

The NBA stats site says on 3 PT shots where the closest defender was 2-4 ft (considered to be "tight"), he shot 40%. Admittedly on low volume, but that's not a sign to me that he can't shot when guarded.

how low is that volume? if it's like 20 total attempts or something really low like that, it's nowhere close to statistically significant

Then it would still be narrative driven though, right? My question is why not force it, and I don't see the fact that he low attempts but had success the few times he forced it to be evidence that he can't do it.

I'm starting to wonder if it's just a psychological issue rather than that he doesn't have the skillset.

ETA: Found the stats page where I had this and it's definitely really low, tracking data says 0.2 attempts per game. The only other folks on our roster that shot north of 30% in those situations was Seth Curry (41.5%) and NSJ (33%).

Post #158 » by **JDR720** » Tue Jul 29, 2025 9:44 pm

He's always been a low volume shooter.

For his career he takes 2.4 three's per game, and only 5.2 shots per game in 22mins. Also just 1 FTA per game.

He's a non-shooter who shoots high percentages. His FT% is 68%, I think that's a better estimate of his shooting ability than his FG/3P% is.

HornetJail · Post #159 » by **HornetJail** » Tue Jul 29, 2025 10:00 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
HornetJail wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:I don't know, after researching a bit I think that's more narrative driven rather than supported by stats.

The NBA stats site says on 3 PT shots where the closest defender was 2-4 ft (considered to be "tight"), he shot 40%. Admittedly on low volume, but that's not a sign to me that he can't shot when guarded.

how low is that volume? if it's like 20 total attempts or something really low like that, it's nowhere close to statistically significant

Then it would still be narrative driven though, right? My question is why not force it, and I don't see the fact that he low attempts but had success the few times he forced it to be evidence that he can't do it.

I'm starting to wonder if it's just a psychological issue rather than that he doesn't have the skillset.

ETA: Found the stats page where I had this and it's definitely really low, tracking data says 0.2 attempts per game. The only other folks on our roster that shot north of 30% in those situations was Seth Curry (41.5%) and NSJ (33%).

lol that's even lower than I thought

took the liberty to look at these myself... and Green attempted:

0 3PA with a defender within 2 feet of him

3.6% of his total FG attempts were threes with a defender within 2-4 feet away
18.5% of his total FG attempts were threes with a defender 4-6 feet away
36.6% of his total FG attempts were wide opens threes (more than 6 feet from the nearest defender)

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/shots-closest-defender-10?CF=GP*G*65&CloseDefDistRange=6%20%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=0

the list of players whose shot selection were just a large amount of "wide open threes"

O'Neale, Batum (the kings of these stats... over SIXTY percent of their shots were wide open threes), and 14 other players that you'd consider to have really really picky shot selection, either because they just suck, or they're role players on great teams surrounded by better talent so they don't get guarded

Hornet Mania · Post #160 » by **Hornet Mania** » Tue Jul 29, 2025 10:01 pm

I think Green took all the shots he could, he's just not that type of player at all. Everything had to be created for him and he's not willing to throw up a wild one like Salaun so there really wasn't any way to pump up his volume. The percentages are nice on paper but it's probably not possible for him to scale up and maintain them.