The Ace Bailey Thread

[JMAC3]

Kevin Durant 40.40% 3pt% 53.60% efg% 1.3 Assists 2.8 Turnovers
Brandon Miller 38.40% 3pt% 53.30% efg% 2.1 Assists 2.2 Turnovers
Brandon Ingram 41.00% 3pt% 52.50% efg% 2.0 Assists 2.0 Turnovers
Paolo Banchero 33.80% 3pt% 52.00% efg% 3.2 Assists 2.4 Turnovers
Airious Bailey 34.60% 3pt% 51.40% efg% 1.3 Assists 2.2 Turnovers
Jayson Tatum 34.20% 3pt% 50.70% efg% 2.1 Assists 2.6 Turnovers
Paul George 35.30% 3pt% 50.60% efg% 3.0 Assists 3.2 Turnovers
R.J. Barrett 30.80% 3pt% 50.60% efg% 4.3 Assists 3.2 Turnovers
Andrew Wiggins 34.10% 3pt% 49.90% efg% 1.5 Assists 2.3 Turnovers
Carmelo Anthony 33.70% 3pt% 49.80% efg% 2.2 Assists 2.2 Turnovers
Harrison Barnes 35.80% 3pt% 48.70% efg% 1.1 Assists 1.9 Turnovers
Anthony Edwards 29.40% 3pt% 47.30% efg% 2.8 Assists 2.7 Turnovers
Jaylen Brown 29.40% 3pt% 47.10% efg% 2.0 Assists 3.1 Turnovers
Khris Middleton 26.00% 3pt% 45.50% efg% 2.2 Assists 2.1 Turnovers

[fatlever]

Read on Twitter

another day, another ace discussion - brought to you by hornets twitter today

is ace a "low feel" player as some scouts believe, or as some tape has shown? or is his tape misleading?

if sixers don't believe he is "low feel" then there is no way he makes it to 4. good point. he still might not make it to 4 even if sixers do think he is "low feel" if they believe he's coachable in that regard.

two ways ace easily becomes the best prospect at 3
- he demonstrates a "high feel" for the game - passing, passing, passing, trusting teammates, cutting out some of the tough shot diet, getting to rim more
- he accepts a lower usage role and demonstrates willingness to become a 3D demon, where he could become the elite version of mpj

both of those players would be awesome for the hornets. what would not be awesome is having another high usage, ball stopper on offense, taking bad shots, when teammates are open. nobody believes we need that player. be more like the pacers (no egos, passing, open shots, quick ball movement, high pace) and less like a summer league team (my turn to play 1 vs 3)

dude has all tools to be great. only ace will keep ace from being great.

this is my current stance on ace. if this makes me an ace hater or biased, then i dont know what to say
he's 2nd on my list behind vj and that gap is very small and simply because i trust vj's mentality more, at this moment. i have zero concerns about vj's mentality, only his skills. vj has a lot of warts that concern me as well. depending on next month of workouts/interviews, ace might pass vj, but my concerns would still be the same.

we can still have a player ranked high AND have concerns and have honest discussions about it without retreating into corners. this applies to kon, vj, tre as well... although only ace/kon seem to generate the polarizing discussions.

[Rich4114]

I'm exactly where fats is at. VJ then Ace. We walk away with one of those, I can be excited. I think I can be turned back on to Tre as well. Really if we're picking anyone else at 4 though, we should just consider trading the pick. Either moving back like something with the Nets for Cam Johnson + 8 or packaging it up for a Zion/Sabonis type thing.

[JustBuzzin]

https://youtube.com/shorts/6V1g4rjHASE?si=XsKyWJLTE5qW7zS4


You call this immature. I call it confidence. This kid believes in his craft. I want him more and more. Do the right thing draft Ace.

[JustBuzzin]

Unlike Miller this kid has a post game. He's not just a guy who shoot 3's. I already showed you his potential as a ball handler. This kid has all the tools to be elite, and he's only 18!

We also have to consider the possibility Miller might be injury prone. For whatever reason he's been banged up since we drafted him. Ace would be nice insurance to have at the wing position.

[JMAC3]

Kevin Durant 40.40% 3pt% 53.60% efg% 1.3 Assists 2.8 Turnovers
Brandon Miller 38.40% 3pt% 53.30% efg% 2.1 Assists 2.2 Turnovers
Brandon Ingram 41.00% 3pt% 52.50% efg% 2.0 Assists 2.0 Turnovers
Paolo Banchero 33.80% 3pt% 52.00% efg% 3.2 Assists 2.4 Turnovers
Airious Bailey 34.60% 3pt% 51.40% efg% 1.3 Assists 2.2 Turnovers
Jayson Tatum 34.20% 3pt% 50.70% efg% 2.1 Assists 2.6 Turnovers
Paul George 35.30% 3pt% 50.60% efg% 3.0 Assists 3.2 Turnovers
R.J. Barrett 30.80% 3pt% 50.60% efg% 4.3 Assists 3.2 Turnovers
Andrew Wiggins 34.10% 3pt% 49.90% efg% 1.5 Assists 2.3 Turnovers
Carmelo Anthony 33.70% 3pt% 49.80% efg% 2.2 Assists 2.2 Turnovers
Harrison Barnes 35.80% 3pt% 48.70% efg% 1.1 Assists 1.9 Turnovers
Anthony Edwards 29.40% 3pt% 47.30% efg% 2.8 Assists 2.7 Turnovers
Jaylen Brown 29.40% 3pt% 47.10% efg% 2.0 Assists 3.1 Turnovers
Khris Middleton 26.00% 3pt% 45.50% efg% 2.2 Assists 2.1 Turnovers

Maybe I am really dumb... but let's compare Ace to any number of guys on this list.

If Ace has a bad shot selection, takes too many ugly shots and is selfish and a losing player because he is missing all these tough shots. Plus Ace sucks at getting to the rim... How does he have the same Efg% as a Jayson Tatum or Carmelo Anthony in college?

Assuming Ace is one of a kind low IQ like some on draft twitter are hinting at. How does someone like Tatum with no concerns getting to the rim as a prospect and wayyyy better shot selection than Ace Bailey not shoot a better% from the field? Right? If Tatum is only taking good shots and taking higher percentage shots at the rim with his great driving ability wouldn't you expect the efficiency metrics to say Tatum is much more efficient?

My point is that we probably are overly nitpicky on Ace. His efficiency shooting the ball is very similar or better than guys that have come before him and somehow they all figured it out.

[JustBuzzin]

Kevin Durant 40.40% 3pt% 53.60% efg% 1.3 Assists 2.8 Turnovers
Brandon Miller 38.40% 3pt% 53.30% efg% 2.1 Assists 2.2 Turnovers
Brandon Ingram 41.00% 3pt% 52.50% efg% 2.0 Assists 2.0 Turnovers
Paolo Banchero 33.80% 3pt% 52.00% efg% 3.2 Assists 2.4 Turnovers
Airious Bailey 34.60% 3pt% 51.40% efg% 1.3 Assists 2.2 Turnovers
Jayson Tatum 34.20% 3pt% 50.70% efg% 2.1 Assists 2.6 Turnovers
Paul George 35.30% 3pt% 50.60% efg% 3.0 Assists 3.2 Turnovers
R.J. Barrett 30.80% 3pt% 50.60% efg% 4.3 Assists 3.2 Turnovers
Andrew Wiggins 34.10% 3pt% 49.90% efg% 1.5 Assists 2.3 Turnovers
Carmelo Anthony 33.70% 3pt% 49.80% efg% 2.2 Assists 2.2 Turnovers
Harrison Barnes 35.80% 3pt% 48.70% efg% 1.1 Assists 1.9 Turnovers
Anthony Edwards 29.40% 3pt% 47.30% efg% 2.8 Assists 2.7 Turnovers
Jaylen Brown 29.40% 3pt% 47.10% efg% 2.0 Assists 3.1 Turnovers
Khris Middleton 26.00% 3pt% 45.50% efg% 2.2 Assists 2.1 Turnovers

Maybe I am really dumb... but let's compare Ace to any number of guys on this list.

If Ace has a bad shot selection, takes too many ugly shots and is selfish and a losing player because he is missing all these tough shots. Plus Ace sucks at getting to the rim... How does he have the same Efg% as a Jayson Tatum or Carmelo Anthony in college?

Assuming Ace is one of a kind low IQ like some on draft twitter are hinting at. How does someone like Tatum with no concerns getting to the rim as a prospect and wayyyy better shot selection than Ace Bailey not shoot a better% from the field? Right? If Tatum is only taking good shots and taking higher percentage shots at the rim with his great driving ability wouldn't you expect the efficiency metrics to say Tatum is much more efficient?

My point is that we probably are overly nitpicky on Ace. His efficiency shooting the ball is very similar or better than guys that have come before him and somehow they all figured it out.

6'7 can score from the post, mid, 3pt and he's athletic despite what others may think.

It's hard to see why we would pass this up if he's on the board. We lack true wings. I'm also looking at Miller I just don't think he's a sf. I would prefer to keep him as a oversized sg. Let Ace play that sf position he has much more potential as a defender than people are giving him credit for.

I'm on the Ace bandwagon until further notice.

[JMAC3]

Read on Twitter

[JustBuzzin]

Don't overthink this.

If he's available take him.

[Bassman]

Agree, Ace is special and may take a couple years to fully fill out, but I do think his defense is better than suggested, and can improve. As he matures, he will gain insight into how he can impact his team’s winning strategy.

Sixers either trade back or pick their favorite. Hornets must take next best option. Who knows…it could be our favorite anyway. Ace has the highest potential of the 3 contenders IMO. Thats why I rate them Ace, VJ, Tre. The same questions we all have on each will carry into their individual workouts. Someone on the board speculated recently the Hornet’s focus on culture could move either of these players to the top, which may not correspond to other team’s rankings.

[Diop]

feels like the main 3 options all have big supporters on this board, and they have all convinced me that as long as we get 1 of the 3 we should be ok.

[countryboi]

feels like the main 3 options all have big supporters on this board, and they have all convinced me that as long as we get 1 of the 3 we should be ok.

agreed

[JustBuzzin]

Watching Carmelo and PG talk about Bailey and they both love him. Not sure if PG has any say in who Philly is drafting but he clearly loves Ace potential.

[Rich4114]

The Ringer now has Ace at 6th: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

We still dying on the Ace hill? I'm not saying he'll be a bust or even that I don't want to take him at 4, but if you don't see the obvious risks in taking him then idk what to tell you.

I remain solidly on team VJ and if he's gone at #3 then for our situation I think you explore trades for an established star or consider a trade back if you can pick up rotational pieces along the way and depending on what those look like and if they aren't worth it -- take the swing on Ace.

It just sucks because Jeff already took the highest of risk swings on Salaun and doing it back to back years could bury him as a GM. Of course, it's better than settling for Malauch here which I'm still worried about him doing.

[countryboi]

The Ringer now has Ace at 6th: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

We still dying on the Ace hill? I'm not saying he'll be a bust or even that I don't want to take him at 4, but if you don't see the obvious risks in taking him then idk what to tell you.

I remain solidly on team VJ and if he's gone at #3 then for our situation I think you explore trades for an established star or consider a trade back if you can pick up rotational pieces along the way and depending on what those look like and if they aren't worth it -- take the swing on Ace.

It just sucks because Jeff already took the highest of risk swings on Salaun and doing it back to back years could bury him as a GM. Of course, it's better than settling for Malauch here which I'm still worried about him doing.

Behind K-nipple? aint no way

[Rich4114]

The Ringer now has Ace at 6th: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

We still dying on the Ace hill? I'm not saying he'll be a bust or even that I don't want to take him at 4, but if you don't see the obvious risks in taking him then idk what to tell you.

I remain solidly on team VJ and if he's gone at #3 then for our situation I think you explore trades for an established star or consider a trade back if you can pick up rotational pieces along the way and depending on what those look like and if they aren't worth it -- take the swing on Ace.

It just sucks because Jeff already took the highest of risk swings on Salaun and doing it back to back years could bury him as a GM. Of course, it's better than settling for Malauch here which I'm still worried about him doing.

Behind K-nipple? aint no way

I view Kon as just as much of a risk as Ace because you're almost surely conceding any chance at a star but signing up for a most likely very solid rotational player. I want to buy into Tre as a VJ contingency plan, but his fit is just as bad if not worse than Ace's and if I throw fit out the window (which I guess I should) then we're getting an elite shooter who doesn't get to the rim or play defense which I think you can find elsewhere.

[countryboi]

The Ringer now has Ace at 6th: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

We still dying on the Ace hill? I'm not saying he'll be a bust or even that I don't want to take him at 4, but if you don't see the obvious risks in taking him then idk what to tell you.

I remain solidly on team VJ and if he's gone at #3 then for our situation I think you explore trades for an established star or consider a trade back if you can pick up rotational pieces along the way and depending on what those look like and if they aren't worth it -- take the swing on Ace.

It just sucks because Jeff already took the highest of risk swings on Salaun and doing it back to back years could bury him as a GM. Of course, it's better than settling for Malauch here which I'm still worried about him doing.

Behind K-nipple? aint no way

I view Kon as just as much of a risk as Ace because you're almost surely conceding any chance at a star but signing up for a most likely very solid rotational player. I want to buy into Tre as a VJ contingency plan, but his fit is just as bad if not worse than Ace's and if I throw fit out the window (which I guess I should) then we're getting an elite shooter who doesn't get to the rim or play defense which I think you can find elsewhere.

I would be very happen with VJ or Tre, I think both have elite level skills to play from day one and possibly become stars

[JMAC3]

The Ringer now has Ace at 6th: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

We still dying on the Ace hill? I'm not saying he'll be a bust or even that I don't want to take him at 4, but if you don't see the obvious risks in taking him then idk what to tell you.

I remain solidly on team VJ and if he's gone at #3 then for our situation I think you explore trades for an established star or consider a trade back if you can pick up rotational pieces along the way and depending on what those look like and if they aren't worth it -- take the swing on Ace.

It just sucks because Jeff already took the highest of risk swings on Salaun and doing it back to back years could bury him as a GM. Of course, it's better than settling for Malauch here which I'm still worried about him doing.

In terms of draft I still read the ringer, but they are usually a bit iffy on Ranks. They had Reed Sheppard 1st last year, had Killian Hayes 1st another year.

[Bassman]

Very interesting ranking by The Ringer. Read the key scouting reports on those guys in our range. I’d still take Ace at 4 if VJ is gone. Just too high an upside, and his floor is still more versatile than Tre. I know Johnson is quite a shooter, but I think his special traits end there. At 4 I want someone with more to offer than just shooting. Ringer places Knipple at 5. I like Kon but further back…just think he’d fit here as a Swiss Army knife player who scores, screens, facilitates and does most things well. But his defense will be tested at the next level IMO. I’d take him 7th, maybe even 6th. If VJ is gone, I’d maybe consider trading back from 4 but it would really depend on the offer.

Most interesting is where they have some of the big men we need to target. My favorite Rasheer Fleming is ranked @22, which is in the vicinity of other rankings/mocks. Many bigs surprised me that would be available with our second round spots.

[fatlever]

floor vs ceiling; risk vs reward

out of ace, vj, kon, tre who has highest/lowest floor and highest/lowest ceiling
exercise. on scale 1 to 10. 1 being out of league in 3 years, 10 being future all-nba, 5 is average starter. what is everyone's range 3-5 years from now.

key
1 = out of league in 3 years
2 = end of bench / bouncing around league
3 = end of rotation
4 = solid rotation guy
5 = avg starter
6 = high level starter
7 = borderline all-star
8 = consistent all-star
9 = all nba
10 = mvp level

rought thoughts

floor/ceiling

ace = 3 to 9
vj = 5 to 8
tre = 4 to 8
kon = 5 to 7

agree or disagree?