Big Al's Paint: The Al Jefferson Thread

[JDR720]

With what we had I would have gotten Hickson to supplement the middle and pair with Biz at C. Add to that Milsap and we have a better team than we ended up with. I would have rather had a trio of Milsap, Dunleavy and Hickson over Al and Hendo.

Hickson/Millsap/MKG/Dunleavy/Kemba may not even beat the dysfunctional Pistons this season. That lineup makes no sense given how terrible Hickson is. We'd probably have the 8th pick this year, with Detroit giving us the 9th pick. We probably win 30 games at best. Undersized, no go-to guy except Kemba, worse defense (Hickson is a REALLY bad defensive player and dumb as a rock)... that would've been a horrible, horrible team. Al added a good 10-15 wins to this team this year if you ask me.

Funny how it is better then our current team and yet somehow only wins 30 games.

It probably is actually, very balanced, Mike is the shooter, Hickson is the bruiser/rebounder, Millsap is the All-Star, Kemba is the playmaker and MKG is the defender...and also you cant forget Cliff would work with all of them on defense so they wouldn't be bad

[HornetJail]

Funny how it is better then our current team and yet somehow only wins 30 games.

How the **** is Hickson/Millsap/MKG/Dunleavy/Kemba better than Al/McRoberts/MKG/Hendo/Kemba? I have just explained why Hickson is absolutely horrendous. Do I really need to tell you that Al+Hendo is better than Millsap+Dunleavy?

If you want to lie to yourself you can. Milsap, Hickson and Dunleavy are better fits for the rest of your roster. You can pretend Al was right but he really wasn't.

Al was a perfect fit. The best low post offensive player in the game on a team that lacked any inside presence isn't a good enough fit for you? Hickson is dumb as a rock. His mind for the game as a seasoned veteran in the NBA is roughly the same as Byron Mullens. You want him and his Mullens-esque defense matching up against someone like Brook Lopez, Demarcus Cousins, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard? Even Clifford doesn't have enough defensive schemes for that. At least Al Jefferson's brain functions on defense.

[yosemiteben]

Facts are facts, and arguments are arguments. I'm genuinely interested to hear your take on why Al deserves flack for this season, especially for reasons that aren't due to the offensive philosophy that Clifford put in place. What was he asked to do that he did not excel at?

He did everything he was asked to do, that's the problem. I'm not mad at Al, he got paid and feasted on defenses all year. I'm mad at the FO for thinking this is the correct path to building a sustainable, winning franchise. We shortchanged our rebuild for the fleeting warm and fuzzies of making the playoffs in a historically bad East.

Al's being Al, I have nothing negative to say about that. I just don't think we can get decidedly better with Al as our centerpiece.

I can respect that, that is a totally fair take. I might disagree, but that's just my opinion. It's when you act like you aren't impressed with what Al was able to accomplish this season that I feel like you're trolling.

But can we at least not play the game of acting like all Al can be is a volume scorer for a crappy team that can't play well defensively, or that this season was just an average season for him? We showed this season, and especially toward the latter part of this season, that that's not the case.

[BeesWax]

How the **** is Hickson/Millsap/MKG/Dunleavy/Kemba better than Al/McRoberts/MKG/Hendo/Kemba? I have just explained why Hickson is absolutely horrendous. Do I really need to tell you that Al+Hendo is better than Millsap+Dunleavy?

If you want to lie to yourself you can. Milsap, Hickson and Dunleavy are better fits for the rest of your roster. You can pretend Al was right but he really wasn't.

Al was a perfect fit. The best low post offensive player in the game on a team that lacked any inside presence isn't a good enough fit for you? Hickson is dumb as a rock. His mind for the game as a seasoned veteran in the NBA is roughly the same as Byron Mullens. You want him and his Mullens-esque defense matching up against someone like Brook Lopez, Demarcus Cousins, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard? Even Clifford doesn't have enough defensive schemes for that. At least Al Jefferson's brain functions on defense.

Does it? I know his feet don't.

You can dream but Al was a bad fit because the team was built to play D and run. Al hasn't run to anything in over a decade.

[Olajuwon34]

Our defense was clearly not a problem this season. Al Jefferson was at the very least functional defensively this year. He made huge strides compared to his previous seasons. If his improvement continues into next season with more time Clifford's system, his defense will be the least of our concerns.

[Liver_Pooty]

Our defense was clearly not a problem this season. Al Jefferson was at the very least functional defensively this year. He made huge strides compared to his previous seasons. If his improvement continues into next season with more time Clifford's system, his defense will be the least of our concerns.

Yeah, as some previous posters have said they want to play an up and down fast paced game while playing good defense. That sounds fine and dandy, but that isn't the way it works. If you play a really fast pace game you are going to give up buckets on the other end. This isn't NBA2K.

[yosemiteben]

If you want to lie to yourself you can. Milsap, Hickson and Dunleavy are better fits for the rest of your roster. You can pretend Al was right but he really wasn't.

Al was a perfect fit. The best low post offensive player in the game on a team that lacked any inside presence isn't a good enough fit for you? Hickson is dumb as a rock. His mind for the game as a seasoned veteran in the NBA is roughly the same as Byron Mullens. You want him and his Mullens-esque defense matching up against someone like Brook Lopez, Demarcus Cousins, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard? Even Clifford doesn't have enough defensive schemes for that. At least Al Jefferson's brain functions on defense.

Does it? I know his feet don't.

You can dream but Al was a bad fit because the team was built to play D and run. Al hasn't run to anything in over a decade.

Well we damn better score on the break, because we had the 6th worst FG% this year even with Al's efficiency. I do not want to guess what our FG% would have been without him, but it wouldn't have been pretty.

[Eoghan]

Facts are facts, and arguments are arguments. I'm genuinely interested to hear your take on why Al deserves flack for this season, especially for reasons that aren't due to the offensive philosophy that Clifford put in place. What was he asked to do that he did not excel at?

He did everything he was asked to do, that's the problem. I'm not mad at Al, he got paid and feasted on defenses all year. I'm mad at the FO for thinking this is the correct path to building a sustainable, winning franchise. We shortchanged our rebuild for the fleeting warm and fuzzies of making the playoffs in a historically bad East.

Al's being Al, I have nothing negative to say about that. I just don't think we can get decidedly better with Al as our centerpiece.

I can respect that, that is a totally fair take. I might disagree, but that's just my opinion. It's when you act like you aren't impressed with what Al was able to accomplish this season that I feel like you're trolling.

But can we at least not play the game of acting like all Al can be is a volume scorer for a crappy team that can't play well defensively, or that this season was just an average season for him? We showed this season, and especially toward the latter part of this season, that that's not the case.

I was really impressed at how well he played during the playoffs despite the injury and you jumped down my throat, lol.

Al is 29 and been in the NBA for like a decade already, he's pretty much what he is so I'm not following you. Are you suggesting that Al is going to magically turn around and start defending P&R like Noah or something? The NBA is a pick and roll league and we are abysmal at defending it. The reason why we were good defensively, statistically, were b/c of Clifford's schemes of forsaking offensive rebounding and limiting opponent's possessions. Controlling pace is great but it inflates how good we really were defensively. Our only good outright defender is MKG and you can see that Clifford's schemes crumbled when he went down with injury. Sans MKG we are a pretty average team on defense, with MKG and Al we are average offensively and despite Al's production we still had a poor record against .500 teams. Whooping up on cellar dwellers can get you in the playoffs but it doesn't mean you are going to make much noise when you get there. Nothing against Al but unless he starts averaging closer to 30 and 15 we just aren't going to improve much without some big roster upgrades.

[yosemiteben]

To be fair, I jumped down your throat because you're silent or even critical of Al while he averages 25 ppg and 12 rpg on 54% FG% and leading us to a 16-6 record to close out the season, with half of those wins coming against playoff teams. Then when he's hurt and we get swept your sole comment is, "At least he played hard while he was hurt!" It so understates his contribution to this team and season, and it's typical of how you've seemed to ignore his contribution to turning this team around.

With that said, obviously P&R defense is a weak spot for him. I hated seeing Kemba having to guard it virtually by himself so Al could lag back, and that's something that's going to need to be addressed this offseason. However, I don't view that weakness as a death knell for this team.

Similarly with pace - I agree that we should have gotten out more on the break. Frankly, I think we could have really put Roy Williams' secondary break concept to use by getting out on the break and then using Al as the trailer and hopefully forcing switches as a result that favor Al (I'm a Duke fan so let's pretend like I didn't compliment Roy on his coaching philosophy). Unlike his PNR defense, which is something he will have to work on, the lack of a break on offense is not really his fault - he can throw an outlet pass just as good as the next guy and we don't need him to be the one getting out and running.

[Eoghan]

You totally misread my post, lol.

I ignored Al's play this year b/c I honestly don't value one-way, offense only players and regard him as empty stats royalty. I've already stated as such a gazillion times so as to not sound like a broken record I stayed mute out of respect for other posters. Apparently I can't win.

Al didn't turn this team around, Clifford did. We'd be right behind Milwaukee and Philly if we had Dunlap or Silas.

[Liver_Pooty]

You totally misread my post, lol.

I ignored Al's play this year b/c I honestly don't value one-way, offense only players and regard him as empty stats royalty. I've already stated as such a gazillion times so as to not sound like a broken record I stayed mute out of respect for other posters. Apparently I can't win.

Al didn't turn this team around, Clifford did. We'd be right behind Milwaukee and Philly if we had Dunlap or Silas.

But you said we would win around 35 games if we had Biyombo starting. That would lose us our draft pick and not make the playoffs. That would be nightmarish

[Eoghan]

You totally misread my post, lol.

I ignored Al's play this year b/c I honestly don't value one-way, offense only players and regard him as empty stats royalty. I've already stated as such a gazillion times so as to not sound like a broken record I stayed mute out of respect for other posters. Apparently I can't win.

Al didn't turn this team around, Clifford did. We'd be right behind Milwaukee and Philly if we had Dunlap or Silas.

But you said we would win around 35 games if we had Biyombo starting. That would lose us our draft pick and not make the playoffs. That would be nightmarish

Nah, we would have stealth tanked to keep us under 35.

[Liver_Pooty]

You totally misread my post, lol.

I ignored Al's play this year b/c I honestly don't value one-way, offense only players and regard him as empty stats royalty. I've already stated as such a gazillion times so as to not sound like a broken record I stayed mute out of respect for other posters. Apparently I can't win.

Al didn't turn this team around, Clifford did. We'd be right behind Milwaukee and Philly if we had Dunlap or Silas.

But you said we would win around 35 games if we had Biyombo starting. That would lose us our draft pick and not make the playoffs. That would be nightmarish

Nah, we would have stealth tanked to keep us under 35.

Thats all hypothetical. You and I both know we would have won 25 maybe 27 games with Biyombo starting, Then what? We get Aaron Gordon or something? Not exactly a game changer.

[yosemiteben]

You totally misread my post, lol.

I ignored Al's play this year b/c I honestly don't value one-way, offense only players and regard him as empty stats royalty. I've already stated as such a gazillion times so as to not sound like a broken record I stayed mute out of respect for other posters. Apparently I can't win.

Al didn't turn this team around, Clifford did. We'd be right behind Milwaukee and Philly if we had Dunlap or Silas.

So his play down the stretch (the 25 points, 14 boards, 16-6 with 8 coming against playoff teams fighting for seeding) were empty? What does it take to have non-empty stats?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[BeesWax]

You totally misread my post, lol.

I ignored Al's play this year b/c I honestly don't value one-way, offense only players and regard him as empty stats royalty. I've already stated as such a gazillion times so as to not sound like a broken record I stayed mute out of respect for other posters. Apparently I can't win.

Al didn't turn this team around, Clifford did. We'd be right behind Milwaukee and Philly if we had Dunlap or Silas.

So his play down the stretch (the 25 points, 14 boards, 16-6 with 8 coming against playoff teams fighting for seeding) were empty? What does it take to have non-empty stats?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Since he we only won 5 when he was scoring 25 points against playoff teams all season yeah kind of empty. Then you count in one was a sub .500 Atlanta team and the Portland and Indy wins when they went through there struggles and it looks slightly worse.

[BeesWax]

Al was a perfect fit. The best low post offensive player in the game on a team that lacked any inside presence isn't a good enough fit for you? Hickson is dumb as a rock. His mind for the game as a seasoned veteran in the NBA is roughly the same as Byron Mullens. You want him and his Mullens-esque defense matching up against someone like Brook Lopez, Demarcus Cousins, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard? Even Clifford doesn't have enough defensive schemes for that. At least Al Jefferson's brain functions on defense.

Does it? I know his feet don't.

You can dream but Al was a bad fit because the team was built to play D and run. Al hasn't run to anything in over a decade.

Well we damn better score on the break, because we had the 6th worst FG% this year even with Al's efficiency. I do not want to guess what our FG% would have been without him, but it wouldn't have been pretty.

You mean when we remove Zellers 33% and add Milsaps 44% and keep Hickson 50% in there? We would have been a better shooting team because of what would have been pushed to our bench and how bad the one we had shot all year. Also starting with McRoberts in the second unit gets that unit better shots since they never had one in that group. Add than Dunleavy adds to spacing by being a better shooter than Henderson and our efficiency should have gone up with this unit. Easy baskets and better shooters should result in this.

[yosemiteben]

Since he we only won 5 when he was scoring 25 points against playoff teams all season yeah kind of empty. Then you count in one was a sub .500 Atlanta team and the Portland and Indy wins when they went through there struggles and it looks slightly worse.

I'll repeat myself...we were 16-6 to close out the season, with 8 wins coming against playoff teams, and Al averaged around 25 PPG and 14 RPG during that stretch. Can someone please explain to me how those are empty stats?

What exactly is the definition of "empty stats" we are using here?

[mrknowitall215]

I'm happier with Jefferson

[BeesWax]

I'm happier with Jefferson

So my team is just as good and less expensive when you add in Dunleavy for Henderson. This provides me with a little more room this summer for players and gives me a high quality of depth at multiple spots if we add a SG this summer like we all want.

[mrknowitall215]

So my team is just as good and less expensive when you add in Dunleavy for Henderson. This provides me with a little more room this summer for players and gives me a high quality of depth at multiple spots if we add a SG this summer like we all want.

I'd rather have gave Henderson the chance to prove himself as a 3rd option like we did than bring in a declining at the end of his career Dunleavy Jr.

I was happy with this Charlotte season, and they still have room for growth and enough cap space to bring in any free-agent they want barring a max-contract even with Jefferson