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Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2

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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1601 » by Joest2003 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:17 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Because I can't make a fair criticism about him without the fan boys starting a debate with me. Anyone else on the team can be bashed in peace but not baby Zeller. Our precious #4 overall pick.

The irony is that you are causing this "fan boy" reaction because you are failing to make a legitimate argument about him. Like Braggins said, there are obvious holes in his game, you just are focusing on the wrong ones. If you made better critiques of his game, you'd get more sympathy.

It's not that you are saying "anything bad" about him. It's that you are criticizing what is potentially our team's greatest strength - our defensive rebounding scheme, which has been among the best in NBA history for three consecutive seasons.


Oh but I did mention how he has no jump shot and can't score in the post but you were to busy already planning your next comeback about how he's good at preventing offensive rebounds to acknowledge it.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1602 » by yosemiteben » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:20 pm

Joest2003 wrote:Oh but I did mention how he has no jump shot and can't score in the post but you were to busy already planning your next comeback about how he's good at preventing offensive rebounds to acknowledge it.

What was your first post in this thread today?

Joest2003 wrote:Cody with a whopping 6 rebounds in a double OT game in which he played over 40 minutes lol.


Then your next post was this...

Joest2003 wrote:No I was at work but there's no excuse for a 7 footer to only get 6 boards in over 40 minutes. Why are we acting like centers can't box out and grab a rebound at the same time. It's not inclusive and even mediocre centers do it night in and night out. But im not surprised someone instantly came to codys defense. Dude is hot garbage. I hope we find a way to trade for terrance Jones and get some toughness in the paint.


Don't act like your primary qualm with Cody (that you have reiterated over and over again) hasn't been your view on his rebounding. We all know that's not true.

Drop the BS rebounding argument (or at the very least acknowledge the subtleties of our team defensive rebounding scheme) and you'll be making some progress in getting taken seriously.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1603 » by Joest2003 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:23 pm

Joest2003 wrote:I literally cannot even remember the last time i saw Cody hit a mid range or score on a post move. He needs batum or walker to serve him on a silver dish to get a easy dunk. We essentially used a #4 overall pick on a good boxer outter.


............but whatever sounds good right? :wink:
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1604 » by Braggins » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:25 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Because I can't make a fair criticism about him without the fan boys starting a debate with me. Anyone else on the team can be bashed in peace but not baby Zeller. Our precious #4 overall pick.

The irony is that you are causing this "fan boy" reaction because you are failing to make a legitimate argument about him. Like Braggins said, there are obvious holes in his game, you just are focusing on the wrong ones. If you made better critiques of his game, you'd get more sympathy.

It's not that you are saying "anything bad" about him. It's that you are criticizing what is potentially our team's greatest strength - our defensive rebounding scheme, which has been among the best in NBA history for three consecutive seasons.


Oh but I did mention how he has no jump shot and can't score in the post but you were to busy already planning your next comeback about how he's good at preventing offensive rebounds to acknowledge it.

Or, he didn't feel a need to respond to that criticism because we all know and have discussed his lack of a post game and regressing jump shot at length. Do you expect everyone to post a statement of agreement every time you decide to come on here and bash his offensive game? People respond to the rebounding argument because its stupid and you keep repeating it as if its an obvious fact even though we've explained to you a million times how it is flawed.

Why do you ignore that he is a really good and versatile defender whenever we bring it up? You should specifically respond every single time and tell us that we are right.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1605 » by yosemiteben » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:27 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:I literally cannot even remember the last time i saw Cody hit a mid range or score on a post move. He needs batum or walker to serve him on a silver dish to get a easy dunk. We essentially used a #4 overall pick on a good boxer outter.


............but whatever sounds good right? :wink:

If you posted as much about this argument as you do about his rebounding, you wouldn't get as much push back because I readily acknowledge that his offensive game is weaker than his defensive game and his work keeping bigs off the boards.

But if you want to call him a bust and a garbage player, yeah I'm going to bring up his strengths. I would do the same for any other player on this team if I don't agree with the argument.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1606 » by Joest2003 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:40 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:I literally cannot even remember the last time i saw Cody hit a mid range or score on a post move. He needs batum or walker to serve him on a silver dish to get a easy dunk. We essentially used a #4 overall pick on a good boxer outter.


............but whatever sounds good right? :wink:

If you posted as much about this argument as you do about his rebounding, you wouldn't get as much push back because I readily acknowledge that his offensive game is weaker than his defensive game and his work keeping bigs off the boards.

But if you want to call him a bust and a garbage player, yeah I'm going to bring up his strengths. I would do the same for any other player on this team if I don't agree with the argument.


Would you though?
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1607 » by yosemiteben » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:45 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:But if you want to call him a bust and a garbage player, yeah I'm going to bring up his strengths. I would do the same for any other player on this team if I don't agree with the argument.


Would you though?

You keep making this allusion to me being unfair to other players on our team. Is there something specific you have in mind?

I do my best to provide statistical evidence and context whenever I critique a player. If you can find examples where I haven't done that, I'm all ears.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1608 » by Eoghan » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:11 pm

Zeller does suck though, to be fair.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1609 » by fatlever » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:18 pm

I think Cody might be 3rd on the team in terms of the number of haters he has from this board, behind only Jefferson and Kemba. Pretty impressive.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1610 » by HornetJail » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:23 pm

fatlever wrote:I think Cody might be 3rd on the team in terms of the number of haters he has from this board, behind only Jefferson and Kemba. Pretty impressive.

Nah, I'm pretty sure we all hate Spencer Hawes
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1611 » by Liver_Pooty » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:23 pm

fatlever wrote:I think Cody might be 3rd on the team in terms of the number of haters he has from this board, behind only Jefferson and Kemba. Pretty impressive.


I don't think anyone could realistically hate on Kemba this year to be honest.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1612 » by BigSlam » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:31 pm

Braggins wrote:You aren't making a fair criticism... Your argument is based on you not understanding how team rebounding works. If you insist on bashing him at least bash him for something that is a legitimate weakness, like his lack of post game and weak finishing ability.

IMO Diaw was the best team rebounder we've had.

Cody is very good at it though.


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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1613 » by Joest2003 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:32 pm

fatlever wrote:I think Cody might be 3rd on the team in terms of the number of haters he has from this board, behind only Jefferson and Kemba. Pretty impressive.


Im not a Zeller hater at all. I came on here the other day after his big day and gave him his props. I want him to do good I still have faith but when I say anything negative I get push back which ends up turning into a full blown debate.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1614 » by fatlever » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:34 pm

Same goes for McRoberts who was one of the best on the team at boxing out and freeing up room for others to grab boards.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1615 » by Joest2003 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:01 pm

fatlever wrote:Same goes for McRoberts who was one of the best on the team at boxing out and freeing up room for others to grab boards.


He wasn't 7 feet and was also a elite playmaker for his position. Still till in my opinion the worst move Cho made letting him walk. Should have let that team gel for a few years.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1616 » by catch20two » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:12 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:
fatlever wrote:I think Cody might be 3rd on the team in terms of the number of haters he has from this board, behind only Jefferson and Kemba. Pretty impressive.


I don't think anyone could realistically hate on Kemba this year to be honest.

Tell Dy-Nasty that. Lol
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1617 » by catch20two » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:16 pm

Cody's lacking ability to grab rebounds individually hurt our offensive transition into fastbreak points and forces our wings to sink into the paint often freeing up outside shooters. His good rim protection stats is a product of everyone having to help him out.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1618 » by catch20two » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:17 pm

Is Cody still considered a good passing big? I remember his BBIQ and ability to pass being one of his alleged strengths when we drafted him. Oh and his jump shot. Lol
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1619 » by yosemiteben » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:12 pm

catch20two wrote:Cody's lacking ability to grab rebounds individually hurt our offensive transition into fastbreak points and forces our wings to sink into the paint often freeing up outside shooters.

We know Cliff wants everyone to crash, he's emphasized defensive rebounding and adopted this scheme since the day he was hired and it's applied regardless of who was in the paint. Al was a dominant defensive rebounder and we took the same approach. Same with Biz.

catch20two wrote:His good rim protection stats is a product of everyone having to help him out.

I really wish someone would invest the time to present evidence of this being the case. I disagree, but I can be persuaded. So far I haven't seen anyone come close to building out this argument.

I think it's much more likely that we have poor perimeter defenders that don't know how to help and close out appropriately. I don't regularly see us doubling in the paint, that has never been a part of our scheme.
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Re: Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2 

Post#1620 » by yosemiteben » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:25 pm

catch20two wrote:Is Cody still considered a good passing big? I remember his BBIQ and ability to pass being one of his alleged strengths when we drafted him. Oh and his jump shot. Lol

He averaged 1.3 apg both years in college and his DraftExpress writeups don't mention anything about his passing, not sure where you got that from. He's light years ahead of some guys like Whiteside, Drummond, Biz, and Koufos, but he's not close to a playmaker at this point in his career.

I think his BBIQ is clearly evident on defense, where he has far outperformed his pre-draft expectations.

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