Fake Trade Thread 2014-15

[mrknowitall215]

It's difficult to justify trading Zeller & what would eventually become a late 1st rounder for Gibson since so much has been vested in the power forward position from tanking seasons to the bad contract of Ben Gordon to the fortunate luck of landing a lottery pick in this past draft from the Pistons to the overpay for Marvin Williams, but I strongly believe that the current weakness at the PF position could be the difference in the Hornets finishing with 50 wins & a top 4 seed in the East if Gibson was acquired and 40 wins & a 8 seed heading into the playoffs if Zeller didn't develop well enough

Here's to hoping Zeller can consistently & efficiently average 10 points and 8 rebounds while playing solid defense like I shakily believe he can

[Dancingpanda]

I'm would be open for a trade for Taj, (although I don't know what his contract looks like) but giving up a first would be redicules. I'm a proponent of never giving up a first unless your getting a bonanfide star.
I think Taj could help us improve while we work on our project of Vonleh, especially since he is missing traning camp and Zeller isn't ready to start

[Elden Payton]

It's difficult to justify trading Zeller & what would eventually become a late 1st rounder for Gibson since so much has been vested in the power forward position from tanking seasons to the bad contract of Ben Gordon to the fortunate luck of landing a lottery pick in this past draft from the Pistons to the overpay for Marvin Williams, but I strongly believe that the current weakness at the PF position could be the difference in the Hornets finishing with 50 wins & a top 4 seed in the East if Gibson was acquired and 40 wins & a 8 seed heading into the playoffs if Zeller didn't develop well enough

Here's to hoping Zeller can consistently & efficiently average 10 points and 8 rebounds while playing solid defense like I shakily believe he can

The bolded is no guarantee.

We're a rolled ankle from mediocrity and will need this team to gel.

2015 draft is pretty loaded by the looks of it, a pick between 16-26 holds value imo.

[JDR720]

I'm would be open for a trade for Taj, (although I don't know what his contract looks like) but giving up a first would be redicules. I'm a proponent of never giving up a first unless your getting a bonanfide star.
I think Taj could help us improve while we work on our project of Vonleh, especially since he is missing traning camp and Zeller isn't ready to start

Taj's contract is 3 more seasons at 8 million, 8.5 million and 8.9 million per year

[Hornet Mania]

Rather keep the energy big we have instead of paying a better one $8 million per year. Gibson is better now, and probably always, but I think Zeller can close the gap enough to make due. I'd like to see how Zeller plays in the first half of this season before including him in any deals. He made huge strides from the start of last season to playoff time, going from useless/harmful to worthy of being a rotation guy. Would be great to see another little leap this year, we need another solid PF in the worst way.

[TheKingofSting]

It's difficult to justify trading Zeller & what would eventually become a late 1st rounder for Gibson since so much has been vested in the power forward position from tanking seasons to the bad contract of Ben Gordon to the fortunate luck of landing a lottery pick in this past draft from the Pistons to the overpay for Marvin Williams, but I strongly believe that the current weakness at the PF position could be the difference in the Hornets finishing with 50 wins & a top 4 seed in the East if Gibson was acquired and 40 wins & a 8 seed heading into the playoffs if Zeller didn't develop well enough

Here's to hoping Zeller can consistently & efficiently average 10 points and 8 rebounds while playing solid defense like I shakily believe he can

The bolded is no guarantee.

We're a rolled ankle from mediocrity and will need this team to gel.

2015 draft is pretty loaded by the looks of it, a pick between 16-26 holds value imo.

But barring an injury I think its a safe bet but then again that is something you can't control.

[SWedd523]

The bolded is no guarantee.

We're a rolled ankle from mediocrity and will need this team to gel.

2015 draft is pretty loaded by the looks of it, a pick between 16-26 holds value imo.

Blowing things a bit out of proportion there. Our four best players last year all missed time due to injury (MKG in particular). We should have more top end talent this year as well, so I'd say we're pretty well past mediocrity, even assuming similar issues occur

[Eoghan]

Why would the Bulls want Zeller anyway? Taj, Pau, Mirotic and I guess McDermott can all slot into the PF spot for them. Hell, they have a comparable garbage man already in Bairstow at a fraction of the price. Cap room?

[Elden Payton]

The bolded is no guarantee.

We're a rolled ankle from mediocrity and will need this team to gel.

2015 draft is pretty loaded by the looks of it, a pick between 16-26 holds value imo.

Blowing things a bit out of proportion there. Our four best players last year all missed time due to injury (MKG in particular). We should have more top end talent this year as well, so I'd say we're pretty well past mediocrity, even assuming similar issues occur

We had the best season in our franchise history and we were a seventh seed...

Things could definitely go south if Al isn't fully healthy and Kemba plays like he did for the last 2 months of the season.

Lance will need time to settle and we don't have a third string C and a (real) starting caliber PF.

Improvement isn't a given.

[Bravenewworld]

I would give up Zeller but not a first. What do you think is the absolute least we could add to Zeller to get Taj by the trade deadline? What about Zeller, Neal, and a 2nd round pick for Taj and filler? If they were wiling to throw in Dunleavy or Hinrich that would be really good but it would probably be E'Twaun Moore or worse if they would even consider that package.

The first is of no consequence.
If they got Taj, there is a good chance they would be a 20+ team, but makes all the difference in the trade.

Question, why do you overvalue Zeller this way? You're already getting Taj, who would give you a contending material 4. For a guy who at best will probably be a 7th or 8th man and a late first.
Lets not let fandom get in the way of rational values. Zeller and a mid to late first, is definitely not valued at more then Taj.

[Bravenewworld]

I'm would be open for a trade for Taj, (although I don't know what his contract looks like) but giving up a first would be redicules. I'm a proponent of never giving up a first unless your getting a bonanfide star.
I think Taj could help us improve while we work on our project of Vonleh, especially since he is missing traning camp and Zeller isn't ready to start

Taj's contract is 3 more seasons at 8 million, 8.5 million and 8.9 million per year

Who is also a guy who was a third rotation big, not an offensive option at all but we know he can score. Can run the floor, is a B+ to A- defender who can actually defend low post and drives, experienced in the play offs and a high IQ player. All while posting like 13-7 in 28-30mpg as a non option, non-starter at a fairly high efficiency rating..

.... 8 million would be a steal for this guy, especially if you're placing him in a starting line up.

[Elden Payton]

I would give up Zeller but not a first. What do you think is the absolute least we could add to Zeller to get Taj by the trade deadline? What about Zeller, Neal, and a 2nd round pick for Taj and filler? If they were wiling to throw in Dunleavy or Hinrich that would be really good but it would probably be E'Twaun Moore or worse if they would even consider that package.

The first is of no consequence.
If they got Taj, there is a good chance they would be a 20+ team, but makes all the difference in the trade.

Question, why do you overvalue Zeller this way? You're already getting Taj, who would give you a contending material 4. For a guy who at best will probably be a 7th or 8th man and a late first.
Lets not let fandom get in the way of rational values. Zeller and a mid to late first, is definitely not valued at more then Taj.

What has Taj proven?

For his career he averages 9/6/1 on .483 percent in 24.3mpg.

He came into the league NBA ready and has improved throughout his career, but not at a trajectory that suggests he is anything more than the 24mpg back up he is now.

[Elden Payton]

I'm would be open for a trade for Taj, (although I don't know what his contract looks like) but giving up a first would be redicules. I'm a proponent of never giving up a first unless your getting a bonanfide star.
I think Taj could help us improve while we work on our project of Vonleh, especially since he is missing traning camp and Zeller isn't ready to start

Taj's contract is 3 more seasons at 8 million, 8.5 million and 8.9 million per year

Who is also a guy who was a third rotation big, not an offensive option at all but we know he can score. Can run the floor, is a B+ to A- defender who can actually defend low post and drives, experienced in the play offs and a high IQ player. All while posting like 13-7 in 28-30mpg as a non option, non-starter at a fairly high efficiency rating..

.... 8 million would be a steal for this guy, especially if you're placing him in a starting line up.

We'd pay his contract, give up a first and a top 5 pick who we've given one season.

I understand why people want him but why give up future assets for someone who (imo) won't move the needle too far.

[SWedd523]

Things could definitely go south if Al isn't fully healthy and Kemba plays like he did for the last 2 months of the season.

This is exactly the scenario we ran into last season, yet we ended up having in your words, "the best season in our franchise history". We didn't have a third string C last year or a (real) starting caliber PF either, so I find it a bit strange to assume a similar injury situation could lead to a worse outcome. Especially after adding Lance and Marvin (who should easily combine to cover the loss of McRoberts) and expected improvement by all of the young guys.

I (kind of) get the point you're making, but you're going about it the wrong way

[Bravenewworld]

What has Taj proven?

For his career he averages 9/6/1 on .483 percent in 24.3mpg.

Hes been through the ECFs and has a number of years of play-off experience.
He is an older and wiser player who are generally more interested in winning then proving themselves.
He has shown he can be productive while being a non-option back up.
His mileage versus experience and maturity don't match ( this is in a positive way).
His numbers have increased almost every year, "career numbers" are irrelevant for the conversation.
He is in good health and keeps his weight under control, which is a big issue when dealing with big men.
His defense is possibly the best for PFs in the east.
This is a guy who helped his team make the second round of the play offs while 3 starters were injured and 2 back ups were injured.

There is not one aspect of Zeller that tops Taj. Even if we consider the best case for Zeller, he is nothing but a scorer. Which, in this case the Hornets are far better off with an average scorer, but a damn good defender over Bargnarni 2.0.
Even if we consider Taj a 24mpg guy ONLY, which, i dont know why anyone would do this. His range of abilities, skills, experiences, all top anything Zeller has or probably will have.
We know Zeller wont be a good defender. We know he wont be a great rebounder. We know at best, hes probably not a starter on any team. There is no reason to hang on to this guy just because you have a bromance for him.

[Bravenewworld]

We'd pay his contract, give up a first and a top 5 pick who we've given one season.

A top 5 pick in a draft that AB went first?
A top 5 pick in a draft that's only comparable to the 2000 draft?

You dont need to give this guy years to develop to know his ceiling, just read scouting reports. Could they be wrong? Sure, but there's not one single BBall fan that looks at this guy and see's anything more then a scoring back up. And if you're going to keep a back up, he can at least be defensive and can rebound. That's the thing that matters with back up big men, not scoring.

I understand why people want him but why give up future assets for someone who (imo) won't move the needle too far.

If you are considering Zeller the future of the franchise, then the franchise has little hope.
If you are considering a 20+ pick the future, over securing a contending team for 3-5 years, then there is little hope.

[Elden Payton]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

If anyone thinks that Zeller can't be a 9/6 player then there is little hope imo.

Obviously Taj is a good defender but there is this guy called Thibs...

People thinking that we should mortgage our future for a chance at a 5 seed when we already have a chance at said seed, is foolishness in my eyes, people being keen on the treadmill scares me.

That is just my opinion though.

[Elden Payton]

Things could definitely go south if Al isn't fully healthy and Kemba plays like he did for the last 2 months of the season.

This is exactly the scenario we ran into last season, yet we ended up having in your words, "the best season in our franchise history". We didn't have a third string C last year or a (real) starting caliber PF either, so I find it a bit strange to assume a similar injury situation could lead to a worse outcome. Especially after adding Lance and Marvin (who should easily combine to cover the loss of McRoberts) and expected improvement by all of the young guys.

I (kind of) get the point you're making, but you're going about it the wrong way

I couldn't care if you like the point or if you think it's the right or wrong way.

This is my opinion and that is yours.

Point about our best season ever is that the 7 seed is not the summit, trading assets to build around Kemba and Al is admitting defeat from the start imo.

We don't have to go all in at this point imo.

[JDR720]

Trading for Taj also blocks Vonleh for 3 seasons (well it probably does) and he has potential to be a lot better than any PF on the roster right now and Taj, so the possibility of giving up future assets (Zeller, 1st round pick and probably more stuff) and blocking our potential stud for 3 seasons isn't worth it to be a little better now imo.

[Elden Payton]

Trading for Taj also blocks Vonleh for 3 seasons (well it probably does) and he has potential to be a lot better than any PF on the roster right now and Taj, so the possibility of giving up future assets (Zeller, 1st round pick and probably more stuff) and blocking our potential stud for 3 seasons isn't worth it to be a little better now imo.

It would also give us 9m less for 2016 free agency.

It comes down to two things imo, are people happy with the illusion of being a contender or do they actually want to be a contender?