#BringBacktheBiz - The Bismack Biyombo Thread

HornetJail · Post #1621 » by **HornetJail** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 6:05 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:I think its pretty safe to say that hes not a starting center in this league.

based on how he played against Dwight Howard?

Liver_Pooty · Post #1622 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 6:36 am

BizGilwalker wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:I think its pretty safe to say that hes not a starting center in this league.

based on how he played against Dwight Howard?

Based on how he's played nearly halfway through his 4th year in the league.

LamarMatic7 · Post #1623 » by **LamarMatic7** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 8:11 pm

KembaWalker wrote:he played fine. Certainly didn't particularly miss Als mediocre scoring production. Henderson stepped in and filled that void perfectly.

lol, what?

we scored 83 points.

KembaWalker · Post #1624 » by **KembaWalker** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 12:08 am

LamarMatic7 wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:he played fine. Certainly didn't particularly miss Als mediocre scoring production. Henderson stepped in and filled that void perfectly.

lol, what?

we scored 83 points.

lol how many points do you think we would have scored with Al in there? maybe he goes Prime Big Al mode and we score 90 instead and let them drop 120 on us. He's a nonfactor at best, negative most nights. We didn't miss him at all in that game. We scored 75 against the Thunder last week because we don't have the juice to play with Western conference powerhouse teams with or without Al

LamarMatic7 · Post #1625 » by **LamarMatic7** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 11:56 am

KembaWalker wrote:
LamarMatic7 wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:he played fine. Certainly didn't particularly miss Als mediocre scoring production. Henderson stepped in and filled that void perfectly.

lol, what?

we scored 83 points.

lol how many points do you think we would have scored with Al in there? maybe he goes Prime Big Al mode and we score 90 instead and let them drop 120 on us. He's a nonfactor at best, negative most nights. We didn't miss him at all in that game. We scored 75 against the Thunder last week because we don't have the juice to play with Western conference powerhouse teams with or without Al

basketball isn't as simple as adding and deducting a player's averages to the final outcome of the game. you can't take the amount of points Henderson scored and compare it to Al's, for **** sakes.

the lack of Al also resulted in our guys losing the ball near the half-court line because of pressure, it's about Zeller dribbling around the perimeter with a deer in the headlights look because he doesn't know what to do when Beverley and Ariza are denying passing lanes to our guards, it's about Kemba shooting jumpers over two guys in the pick-n-roll since the other Houston big can easily contain the screener and the other big (Zeller/Biz) by himself.

I don't know what else to tell you. It was clearly evident that your guys seriously lacked solutions to end possessions.

Of course, one can say that it was their first game without Al in a long time and they weren't ready for this. But either way the lack of Jefferson on offense was visible.

Snidely FC · Post #1626 » by **Snidely FC** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 2:30 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:The Spurs are so much more likely to draft a skilled European who lacks certain athleticism than a specimen of an athlete of African descent.

Actually, I don't really re-call them ever drafting one.

Agreed. But, I think it is instructive to look at the way SA handles their inexperienced players. Guys like Cory Joseph and Aaron Baynes never would have lasted in CHA, and they would have been killed on this board. Popovich starts those guys when he wants to rest his stars. They get D league time to begin, then he regularly spoon feeds them game minutes to develop their confidence and so that they can get comfortable with NBA speed of play and their role on the team. It's amazing how far Cory Joseph, for instance, has come.

Biz got very little of the above. Especially what has felt to me like total lack of confidence from his coach. There is a difference getting spot minutes on a well organized successful team and getting spot minutes on a mess of a team like Biz experienced his first few years. And he was never going to develop to his fullest stuck on the bench behind Al.

I thought he showed signs of promise vs Dwight the other night. Particularly, I thought he did a better job of staying down, not leaving his feet on every move. The second foul call against him was a phantom foul and took him out of the game. Also, as Lamar points out, the CHA offense is designed around Al. Just sticking Biz in there as a replacement and expecting him and the offense to look good is not going to go well.

If Biz is truly only 22, I think we should be still very excited about his potential.

BeesWax · Post #1627 » by **BeesWax** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 2:35 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
LamarMatic7 wrote:lol, what?

we scored 83 points.

lol how many points do you think we would have scored with Al in there? maybe he goes Prime Big Al mode and we score 90 instead and let them drop 120 on us. He's a nonfactor at best, negative most nights. We didn't miss him at all in that game. We scored 75 against the Thunder last week because we don't have the juice to play with Western conference powerhouse teams with or without Al

basketball isn't as simple as adding and deducting a player's averages to the final outcome of the game. you can't take the amount of points Henderson scored and compare it to Al's, for **** sakes.

the lack of Al also resulted in our guys losing the ball near the half-court line because of pressure, it's about Zeller dribbling around the perimeter with a deer in the headlights look because he doesn't know what to do when Beverley and Ariza are denying passing lanes to our guards, it's about Kemba shooting jumpers over two guys in the pick-n-roll since the other Houston big can easily contain the screener and the other big (Zeller/Biz) by himself.

I don't know what else to tell you. It was clearly evident that your guys seriously lacked solutions to end possessions.

Of course, one can say that it was their first game without Al in a long time and they weren't ready for this. But either way the lack of Jefferson on offense was visible.

It was also clear that they lost their go to pick and roll to score on us. So yes we hurt a bit scoring but so did they. It took them a while to figure out anything about attacking us and some of it was because we stuck Henderson on Harden and he caught fire. We can't compete with those caliber teams no matter what. For our first game without the guy who for better or worse has been our focal point on offense we hung in there until late. It was also nice to watch a team where everyone on the floor tried the whole game on both ends.

Post #1628 » by **yosemiteben** » Sat Jan 3, 2015 12:07 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell/status/551145904062091264[/tweet]

Post #1629 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 4:37 pm

So Biz is a RFA after this year. Query for the board:

(1) Obviously this is total conjecture, but what do you anticipate to be the highest offer Biz will receive?

(2) What are the most favorable terms you would be ok with matching for Biz?

BeesWax · Post #1630 » by **BeesWax** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 4:46 pm

yosemiteben wrote:So Biz is a RFA after this year. Query for the board:

(1) Obviously this is total conjecture, but what do you anticipate to be the highest offer Biz will receive?

(2) What are the most favorable terms you would be ok with matching for Biz?

(1) I am afraid we will see an offer around 7 per

(2) I would hope we could keep him for around 5 per

I am hoping because defense can be undervalued at times that we will be able to retain him at a reasonable price.

Post #1631 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 4:48 pm

Whatever the dollar amount I hope it's a long term deal. I could be happy with five year, $6M per.

BeesWax · Post #1632 » by **BeesWax** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 4:53 pm

I would prefer 5 years at $5 per but I would not jump off a bridge over $6 per. I think somewhere in the 5 for $25 to $30 range is a reasonable cost for someone of his age and skills.

mrknowitall215 · Post #1633 » by **mrknowitall215** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 5:00 pm

yosemiteben wrote:So Biz is a RFA after this year. Query for the board:

(1) Obviously this is total conjecture, but what do you anticipate to be the highest offer Biz will receive?

(2) What are the most favorable terms you would be ok with matching for Biz?

A lot of variables still possible that could change the answers to these questions, but if the season ended today...

(1) As a restricted free-agent, I think Biyombo's highest offer would be for about $5 million annually. Rim protectors in this league are valuable to team success, and contending teams that have enough scoring but lack rim protection will be willing to take a shot at Biyombo, but there's still too much uncertainty towards his value since Clifford seemingly doesn't seem to trust him playing meaningful minutes, so it'll leave enough skepticism from other clubs not to go over $5-6 million annually on a offer sheet

(2) I think Charlotte should be willing to match any offer under $8 million annually to retain Biyombo as long as he's the sole rim protector on the roster. If they happen to draft or trade for a rim protector just as good then he could unfortunately become expendable if the price tag is too high

I expect Biyombo to return to Charlotte on the 1-year qualifying offer tender after other teams will be hesitant to waste their time making a offer sheet to Biyombo that the Hornets would likely match

Post #1634 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 5:18 pm

I really hope Charlotte extends Biz even if no offers come in. He's still very young and his value is only going to increase. I'm a little nervous about a long term $8M deal, but think with the cap going up he'd be an absolute steal even at that rate in the latter years of his deal.

Al Kidd-Walker · Post #1635 » by **Al Kidd-Walker** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 6:01 pm

Give him the Jimmer veterans minimum deal..

Post #1636 » by **BigSlam** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 6:23 pm

yosemiteben wrote:So Biz is a RFA after this year. Query for the board:

(1) Obviously this is total conjecture, but what do you anticipate to be the highest offer Biz will receive?

(2) What are the most favorable terms you would be ok with matching for Biz?

I'm not sure what other teams might offer him but I hope we cap our offer at something like 25 mil over 5 years.

I'd also give him a team option on year #4 and a player option on year #5

1 Years = $4,132,231
2 Years = $4,566,116
3 Years = $5,000,000
4 Years = $5,433,884
5 Years = $5,867,769

Eoghan · Post #1637 » by **Eoghan** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 6:37 pm

yosemiteben wrote:So Biz is a RFA after this year. Query for the board:

(1) Obviously this is total conjecture, but what do you anticipate to be the highest offer Biz will receive?

(2) What are the most favorable terms you would be ok with matching for Biz?

1) Asik money. Don't laugh, with the tv deal someone might throw it at him.

2) I would be okay with either a short 1-2 year deal worth like 7-8M per or a long-term deal with no more than ~5M per.

MasterIchiro · Post #1638 » by **MasterIchiro** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 6:38 pm

Has me praying for Tankafor

Post #1639 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 6:44 pm

BrotherDave wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:So Biz is a RFA after this year. Query for the board:

(1) Obviously this is total conjecture, but what do you anticipate to be the highest offer Biz will receive?

(2) What are the most favorable terms you would be ok with matching for Biz?

1) Asik money. Don't laugh, with the tv deal someone might throw it at him.

2) I would be okay with either a short 1-2 year deal worth like 7-8M per or a long-term deal with no more than ~5M per.

Given how the cap will increase, why chop it so much for the extended deal? I can see something like increasing from $5M to $8M over the life of the deal, but $5M five years from now is going to be nothing and that's when he will be in his prime.

Eoghan · Post #1640 » by **Eoghan** » Thu Jan 8, 2015 6:46 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
BrotherDave wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:So Biz is a RFA after this year. Query for the board:

(1) Obviously this is total conjecture, but what do you anticipate to be the highest offer Biz will receive?

(2) What are the most favorable terms you would be ok with matching for Biz?

1) Asik money. Don't laugh, with the tv deal someone might throw it at him.

2) I would be okay with either a short 1-2 year deal worth like 7-8M per or a long-term deal with no more than ~5M per.

Given how the cap will increase, why chop it so much for the extended deal? I can see something like increasing from $5M to $8M over the life of the deal, but $5M five years from now is going to be nothing and that's when he will be in his prime.

Even the Biz whisperer like myself isn't satisfied with the progress he's made so far, regardless if that's on him or the coaching. I can only be asked to pay for potential for so long.