Barbeque Chicken: The Cody Zeller Thread - Pt 2

Joest2003 · Post #1701 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 3:48 pm

I guess big al is athletic too because I seen him throw down a dunk lol.

Post #1702 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 3:49 pm

Joest2003 wrote:I guess big al is athletic too because I seen him throw down a dunk lol.

Still waiting...

Post #1703 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon May 23, 2016 3:51 pm

If athletic = rebounds, apparently in 2013-14 guys like Kevin Love, Andrew Bogut, and Al Jefferson were elite athletes.

LofJ · Post #1704 » by **LofJ** » Mon May 23, 2016 3:52 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
fatlever wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Too soft and unathletic. As long as he is starting this team is bound for mediocre at best.

Can you define "athletic" so we know what you mean when you say Cody is "unathletic"? By most accepted definitions of "athletic" in terms of describing basketball players, Cody would be considered one of the most athletic 7-footers in the league - you know, running fast, jumping high, quickness - stuff like that. Perhaps you have a different definition than most of us.

When your starting 7 foot center averages 6.2 rebounds. Athletic is probably one of the last things I would call him.

Extrapolated out to 36 minutes a game (Cody played 24) he would average over 9 rebounds a game. I wouldn't call that impressive, but it's not horrible either. Rebounding isn't one of Cody's primary strengths but he's serviceable.

Joest2003 · Post #1705 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 3:52 pm

fatlever wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Is 50 wins with a top 10 offense and defense mediocre?

Honestly what do you like so much about him? Dude is 7 feet with like 5 career double doubles. Under no circumstances is that anywhere near acceptable. He has absoutely no outside game or post game for that matter. Average at best at defense and that's being generous considering I don't think I ever seen him block a single shot in his career. He's basically a 7 foot body. He boxes out and runs on the fast break. This team will go nowhere as long as he is the starter. Look at who's still in the playoffs. He would get eaten alive but any of the centers playing in the conference finals right now. Backups included

Its fine that you don't believe Cody is our best option as a starting center for the future. There are legitimate concerns with him, that we all understand. So, why don't you just say that rather than trying to paint him as some kind of massive failure who doesn't deserve minutes and is unathletic. You can make your point with out trying to paint him as an awful player. Its hard to take your arguments seriously when you try to go so far in the other direction to make a point.

I never said he's awful player I said as long as he is starting this team will max out right about where we did this season. First round exit. I said multiple times he would be a great backup. It's just when you say anything negative about baby Zeller you get stoned to death.

Joest2003 · Post #1706 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 3:57 pm

fatlever wrote:still waiting on you to define "athletic"

Athletic has a lot to do with you size. Westbrook, Lillard. Those are athletic guys. If we're talking about 7 footers that's another story. Deandre Jordan and Andre Drummond that is the definition of a athletic 7 footer. Not someone who struggles to grab 7 rebounds. Honestly have you ever watched a game with Jordan or Drummond? They outjump opposing centers for offensive rebounds and lobs non stop. Zeller physically is just not capable of that.

Post #1707 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 3:58 pm

No, I have never watched Jordan or Drummond. Who do they play for again?

Post #1708 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:01 pm

Joest2003 wrote:Athletic has a lot to do with you size.

It has literally nothing to do with the size of your body.

Post #1709 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:03 pm

Here's how you described Cody in the past few days...

The dude is just a chode. Plain and simple. Can't teach toughness and aggression. You either have it or not. Dude looks like hes part of a church choir.

To say he is underwhelming is a understatement.

Too soft and unathletic.

I'm fine with anyone saying that Cody is ideally a backup center. In a perfect world I think Cody would thrive as the 1st big man off the bench, playing 25 minutes a night at both PF/C spots, depending on matchups (the PF minutes are assuming he makes some improvements on his jump shot).

Cody's main problem is simply a lack of size, both wingspan/length and weight/muscle. That's it. There's not much else to the discussion. If he was as big as Drummond or Jordan with his exact same skillset and athleticism, he'd be a great center and we'd be looking to pay him a max deal next year.

Post #1710 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:05 pm

Joest2003 wrote:Deandre Jordan and Andre Drummond that is the definition of a athletic 7 footer. Not someone who struggles to grab 7 rebounds.

My response from 4 months ago in this thread:

yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Drummond and deandre box out players and grab literally double the rebounds Zeller does at the same time while also scoring and blocking shots.

When he was 23 DeAndre averaged just 1 more defensive rebound per game than Cody despite playing essentially the same amount of PT as Cody. He also averaged fewer points per game. Hmm.

Joest2003 · Post #1711 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:05 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Athletic has a lot to do with you size.

It has literally nothing to do with the size of your body.

Correct but a 7 footer dunking on a 10 foot basket is not the same as a 6 foot guy. 7 footers need to do more than be able to dunkin and run fast to be considered athletic. Lobs and offensive rebounds is a good example. You need to be able to jump higher and faster than another 7 footer to get Lobs and offensive rebounds for the most part.

Joest2003 · Post #1712 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:06 pm

Jesus man its not rocket science

Joest2003 · Post #1713 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:08 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Deandre Jordan and Andre Drummond that is the definition of a athletic 7 footer. Not someone who struggles to grab 7 rebounds.

My response from 4 months ago in this thread:

yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Drummond and deandre box out players and grab literally double the rebounds Zeller does at the same time while also scoring and blocking shots.

When he was 23 DeAndre averaged just 1 more defensive rebound per game than Cody despite playing essentially the same amount of PT as Cody. He also averaged fewer points per game. Hmm.

Well you better hope cody somehow doubles his rebounds this year lol

Post #1714 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:10 pm

Joest2003 wrote:Jesus man its not rocket science

You: Athleticism has a lot to do with your size.
Me: Athleticism has literally nothing to do with your size.
You: Correct.

I'm tapping out of this conversation.

LofJ · Post #1715 » by **LofJ** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:10 pm

As a team we don't prioritize offense rebounding, if we did I imagine Cody's numbers would be better. Typically Clifford only lets MKG crash the offensive glass, but I think he should let Cody do it as well (with MKG off the floor) because he's fast enough to do that and still get back on defense.

All that said we had an elite rebounding big on the roster, but Clifford completely ruined that. :nonono:

Joest2003 · Post #1716 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:11 pm

fatlever wrote:Here's how you described Cody in the past few days...

The dude is just a chode. Plain and simple. Can't teach toughness and aggression. You either have it or not. Dude looks like hes part of a church choir.

To say he is underwhelming is a understatement.

Too soft and unathletic.

I'm fine with anyone saying that Cody is ideally a backup center. In a perfect world I think Cody would thrive as the 1st big man off the bench, playing 25 minutes a night at both PF/C spots, depending on matchups (the PF minutes are assuming he makes some improvements on his jump shot).

Cody's main problem is simply a lack of size, both wingspan/length and weight/muscle. That's it. There's not much else to the discussion. If he was as big as Drummond or Jordan with his exact same skillset and athleticism, he'd be a great center and we'd be looking to pay him a max deal next year.

OK so I might have been a little harsh but it's the brutal truth. I seen a mod say we should trade walker for Taj fu**ing Gibson this year and no one said anything but I saw the harsh truth about Cody and you guys are ready to kill me

Post #1717 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:13 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Athletic has a lot to do with you size.

It has literally nothing to do with the size of your body.

Correct but a 7 footer dunking on a 10 foot basket is not the same as a 6 foot guy. 7 footers need to do more than be able to dunkin and run fast to be considered athletic. Lobs and offensive rebounds is a good example. You need to be able to jump higher and faster than another 7 footer to get Lobs and offensive rebounds for the most part.

Offensive rebounds are a lot more about bullying your man out of the way and getting position under the rim (Moses Malone) or having the amazing ability to read where the ball is coming off the rim (Dennis Rodman) and less to do with simply jumping high.

Lobs require point guards (or other players) to throw said lobs. We've already established that Kemba is not one to throw a lot of lobs. However, feel free to check out the video compilation Lamar made of Batum throwing Cody lobs this year.

Post #1718 » by **Diop** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:14 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Athletic has a lot to do with you size.

It has literally nothing to do with the size of your body.

That's why spud Webb was so unathletic

Joest2003 · Post #1719 » by **Joest2003** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:14 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Jesus man its not rocket science

You: Athleticism has a lot to do with your size.
Me: Athleticism has literally nothing to do with your size.
You: Correct.

I'm tapping out of this conversation.

Obviously I meant how you gauge athletism has a lot to do with size. Not surprised you couldn't understand what I was trying to say. I need to illustrate every thing to where a toddler can understand it when talking to you I forgot.

Post #1720 » by **fatlever** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:15 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Joest2003 wrote:Jesus man its not rocket science

You: Athleticism has a lot to do with your size.
Me: Athleticism has literally nothing to do with your size.
You: Correct.

I'm tapping out of this conversation.

Obviously I meant how you gauge athletism has a lot to do with size. Not surprised you couldn't understand what I was trying to say. I need to illustrate every thing to where a toddler can understand it when talking to you I forgot.

And here come the insults. Don't go there.