Geometry: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

[catch20two]

Roy Hibbert got the power to make Frank Kaminsky miss open 3s and floaters around the rim over smaller defenders. Wow.

I know you get the point of that article because I've seen you make a lot of arguments using on/off data and talking about why certain players underperform with other players in the lineup.

Would it make you feel better if that article were about how Lamb shoots much better from the floor with Spencer compared to Roy?

Roy brings the team down defensively because he's too sloth-footed to move with the PnR offensive craze of the modern NBA so that's where he effects net ratings the most. Offensively Roy just doesn't set good screens and he's too slow to even roll fast enough to attack the rim in today's faster paced NBA. He's a dinosaur.

Without a doubt Roy hurt the team especially in comparison the hustle bustle of Cody. But that's no excuse for all of the open shots Frank miss to the side of the rim or the ones he miss close by the rim over smaller defenders.

I think everyone on the team's net rating is better when they get to play with Kemba nevertheless Cody instead of Sessions or Hibbert. I just don't see the uniqueness of on/off stats for Frank in comparison to everyone else on the roster. Every player take a hit in on/off playing alongside Roy.

[catch20two]

With that said we need to make a trade for Noel. If not Noel then Henson. Sticking to my guns.

[yosemiteben]

Every player take a hit in on/off playing alongside Roy.

Kemba is actually better. No one plays worse with Roy than Lamb though.

[catch20two]

Every player take a hit in on/off playing alongside Roy.

Kemba is actually better. No one plays worse with Roy than Lamb though.

I always say aggressive Kemba is indisputably a all-star.

Kemba's individual stats may be better with Roy because he's usually more aggressive offensively in that role where he's playing with the bench (usually with Batum on the sidelines) but we're talking about on/off, right?

[yosemiteben]

Every player take a hit in on/off playing alongside Roy.

Kemba is actually better. No one plays worse with Roy than Lamb though.

I always say aggressive Kemba is indisputably a all-star.

Kemba's individual stats may be better with Roy because he's usually more aggressive offensively in that role where he's playing with the bench (usually with Batum on the sidelines) but we're talking about on/off, right?

Yeah, Kemba's stats with Roy on vs. Roy off. Might be a sample size thing, don't care enough to look it up though

[catch20two]

Kemba is actually better. No one plays worse with Roy than Lamb though.

I always say aggressive Kemba is indisputably a all-star.

Kemba's individual stats may be better with Roy because he's usually more aggressive offensively in that role where he's playing with the bench (usually with Batum on the sidelines) but we're talking about on/off, right?

Yeah, Kemba's stats with Roy on vs. Roy off. Might be a sample size thing, don't care enough to look it up though

Aggressive Kemba ftw.

On topic tho Frank will be a very good and key player maybe even borderline star quality once he start making his open shots. It worked wonders for Marv last year. But that statement is a little Jackie Moon-ish.

[yosemiteben]

That's a fair take and I agree. There is no way that Frank can continue to shoot mid 20s percentage wise from 3 and miss all those bunnies on his dives to the rim and expect to be a consistent starter.

[bravor]

The main purpose that would move Frank with the starters is not to reward him, but to switch Marvin to the bench so that its defense remains acceptable.
You don't need a lot of scoring from Frank with the starters. And his poor defense would be less detrimental (in theory).

[Mystical Apples]

Oh the #geometry irony. His struggles have been from where he's done well in the past (last year 36.4% from 25-29 ft). Which could be from rushing, the increased attempt rate , randomness, the rough patch in confidence, etc...likely a combination of factors.

I'd also add the lack of 3P shooters and passing in certain lineups does increase the pressure on spacers to get their shots up which would effect some shooters more than others..IE Marco (leaners off screens), Frank (distance), and Ariza (toes on the line corner 3PA) all shoot 3's but they're totally different animals with different spacing values.

Percentage of 3PA's < 25ft
Frank: 39%
Marco: 44%
Sessions: 49%
Kemba: 50%
Nic 51%
Lamb: 56%
Marvin: 58%
Ariza: 59%
Spencer: 60%

As pointed out none of it really matters....you make them or you don't. FK won't maximize his value to CHA as a PNP big unless he's draining 3PA from > 25 ft but that's a different story from adding generalist 3P value.

[Braggins]

I'm not even going to bother reading the article. I'm still down for throwing blame at Roy lol.

[euphorbus]

Almost halfway through the season, Kaminsky is shooting .391 and grabbing 6.7 rebounds per 36 minutes. Need I remind you that the guy is 7 feet tall? His win share per 48 is last among rotation players. Golly.

[FreeMario]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Frank+Kaminsky&player_id1_select=Frank+Kaminsky&y1=2017&player_id1=kaminfr01&hint=Spencer+Hawes&player_id2_select=Spencer+Hawes&y2=2012&player_id2=hawessp01
Frank vs Hawes at age of 23

[catch20two]

Hawes was better.

[yosemiteben]

Hawes was better.

He was also in his 5th NBA season and only played 37 games that season.

Nobody is debating that Frank was a late bloomer.

[catch20two]

Hawes was better.

He was also in his 5th NBA season and only played 37 games that season.

Nobody is debating that Frank was a late bloomer.

That was the lockout season.

[yosemiteben]

Hawes was better.

He was also in his 5th NBA season and only played 37 games that season.

Nobody is debating that Frank was a late bloomer.

That was the lockout season.

Not sure how that impacts my point that those stats were for less than half of a normal season in his 5th season.

It's also nothing that's being argued against. 19 year old Hawes would also have destroyed 19 year old Frank.

[catch20two]

I like Kelly Olynyk over Frank.

[FreeMario]

No problem.
Hawes 2nd season(age 20) vs Frank 2nd season(age 23):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Frank+Kaminsky&player_id1_select=Frank+Kaminsky&player_id1=kaminfr01&y1=2017&hint=Spencer+Hawes&player_id2_select=Spencer+Hawes&player_id2=hawessp01&y2=2009

[yosemiteben]

Nobody is debating that Frank was a late bloomer.

Non-CHA fan comes around to criticize our guy. Why again?

[SWedd523]

Nobody is debating that Frank was a late bloomer.

Non-CHA fan comes around to criticize our guy. Why again?

That's what's blowing my mind. This dude is a Mario Hezonja stumper. A guy who was drafted 4 slots higher than Frank in the same draft, yet is on serious bust alert status and gets less than half the minutes of Jodie Meeks on a worse team than ours. A guy who has scored in double digits THREE TIMES all season while Frank is AVERAGING double digits for the year.

But he comes here to trash Frank. I'm actually confused by it. Did Frank take his sister out to a nice steak dinner and then never call her or something?