#Spacing - Steve Clifford Thread

[Liver_Pooty]

Were paying a third string PG 4 million dollars. A back up PF 7 million dollars. Ill give Cho a pass on Stephenson because hardly anyone thought he would be this bad, but damn. That is a ton of money.

[-Ian-]

Kemba must really love Clifford for him to go out there and defend his coach.

[Liver_Pooty]

Kemba must really love Clifford for him to go out there and defend his coach.

And thats why he won't be fired. The players adore him. For whatever reason it might be.

[DY_nasty]

I really did believe that the shooting was on the roster at first until I realized that we're leading the league in most stats that revolve around bad shooting and wasted movement on offense.

Just living conundrums like being a top 5 team in passes per game but bottom 5 in assists per game.
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... AST&dir=-1
Which is even crazier because we have some of the longest possessions in the league as well.
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... AST&dir=-1
The ball goes nowhere. And to prove what your eyes are seeing, the ball doesn't even get to Al directly because we're running in circles outside the arc or simply sitting around. We're bottom 5 in close touches too.

Going back to bad shots... though. We're #2 in pull up shots attempted per game - only behind the Lakers (and I'm sure Kobe had a lot to do with that as well).
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... =FGA&dir=1
You don't get to complain about bad shooters when you lead the league in bad shots. We take more pull up 3s than teams loaded with shooters too. We don't even know how to create catch and shoot opportunities either.

[Diop]

(side question, Its still unclear just how much impact MJ has on the roster. Sometimes I feel like its his meddling that keeps us from having a plan that stays in place for more than 2 years.)

I didn't read this part before my rambling, but I was wondering the same thing mainly in relation to Lance.

I thought I read somewhere that Cho didn't want him, but MJ arranged his own research and got it done.

[Liver_Pooty]

I really did believe that the shooting was on the roster at first until I realized that we're leading the league in most stats that revolve around bad shooting and wasted movement on offense.

Just living conundrums like being a top 5 team in passes per game but bottom 5 in assists per game.
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... AST&dir=-1
Which is even crazier because we have some of the longest possessions in the league as well.
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... AST&dir=-1
The ball goes nowhere. And to prove what your eyes are seeing, the ball doesn't even get to Al directly because we're running in circles outside the arc or simply sitting around. We're bottom 5 in close touches too.

Going back to bad shots... though. We're #2 in pull up shots attempted per game - only behind the Lakers (and I'm sure Kobe had a lot to do with that as well).
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... =FGA&dir=1
You don't get to complain about bad shooters when you lead the league in bad shots. We take more pull up 3s than teams loaded with shooters too. We don't even know how to create catch and shoot opportunities either.

It all basically revolves around ball movement. You can't have solid ball movement when no one on your roster can shoot. Defenses just play off and ball movement is a moot point. I find it hilarious and pathetic at the same time to watch Walker and Henderson and even Zeller and MKG (I may as well list the whole damn team) drive to kick out to a "shooter" for said player to do the same thing. It ends up in someone shooting with the shot clock at 1 and a horrible shot.

[DY_nasty]

I really did believe that the shooting was on the roster at first until I realized that we're leading the league in most stats that revolve around bad shooting and wasted movement on offense.

Just living conundrums like being a top 5 team in passes per game but bottom 5 in assists per game.
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... AST&dir=-1
Which is even crazier because we have some of the longest possessions in the league as well.
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... AST&dir=-1
The ball goes nowhere. And to prove what your eyes are seeing, the ball doesn't even get to Al directly because we're running in circles outside the arc or simply sitting around. We're bottom 5 in close touches too.

Going back to bad shots... though. We're #2 in pull up shots attempted per game - only behind the Lakers (and I'm sure Kobe had a lot to do with that as well).
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... =FGA&dir=1
You don't get to complain about bad shooters when you lead the league in bad shots. We take more pull up 3s than teams loaded with shooters too. We don't even know how to create catch and shoot opportunities either.

It all basically revolves around ball movement. You can't have solid ball movement when no one on your roster can shoot. Defenses just play off and ball movement is a moot point. I find it hilarious and pathetic at the same time to watch Walker and Henderson and even Zeller and MKG (I may as well list the whole damn team) drive to kick out to a "shooter" for said player to do the same thing. It ends up in someone shooting with the shot clock at 1 and a horrible shot.

I don't believe in that at all. Potential Assists shows why. We're in the bottom 3rd of the league - which simply does not make sense considering that we're one of the league leaders in passes.

Further, since we can't shoot - we should be driving the lane often right? Maybe creating some fouls through ball movement as well? Nope. Not even then. We don't even attempt to drive the lane to force the issue. 20th in the league in drives per game. We don't even try. Utah puts pressure on defenses more than we do and they don't even have slashing talent outside of Burks really.

Its really just the overall aimlessness of the offense that's the issue here. Its why our team collapses so regularly. We have no strength so to speak - real, or perceived.

[Liver_Pooty]

I really did believe that the shooting was on the roster at first until I realized that we're leading the league in most stats that revolve around bad shooting and wasted movement on offense.

Just living conundrums like being a top 5 team in passes per game but bottom 5 in assists per game.
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... AST&dir=-1
Which is even crazier because we have some of the longest possessions in the league as well.
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... AST&dir=-1
The ball goes nowhere. And to prove what your eyes are seeing, the ball doesn't even get to Al directly because we're running in circles outside the arc or simply sitting around. We're bottom 5 in close touches too.

Going back to bad shots... though. We're #2 in pull up shots attempted per game - only behind the Lakers (and I'm sure Kobe had a lot to do with that as well).
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... =FGA&dir=1
You don't get to complain about bad shooters when you lead the league in bad shots. We take more pull up 3s than teams loaded with shooters too. We don't even know how to create catch and shoot opportunities either.

It all basically revolves around ball movement. You can't have solid ball movement when no one on your roster can shoot. Defenses just play off and ball movement is a moot point. I find it hilarious and pathetic at the same time to watch Walker and Henderson and even Zeller and MKG (I may as well list the whole damn team) drive to kick out to a "shooter" for said player to do the same thing. It ends up in someone shooting with the shot clock at 1 and a horrible shot.

I don't believe in that at all. Potential Assists shows why. We're in the bottom 3rd of the league - which simply does not make sense considering that we're one of the league leaders in passes.

Further, since we can't shoot - we should be driving the lane often right? Maybe creating some fouls through ball movement as well? Nope. Not even then. We don't even attempt to drive the lane to force the issue. 20th in the league in drives per game. We don't even try. Utah puts pressure on defenses more than we do and they don't even have slashing talent outside of Burks really.

Its really just the overall aimlessness of the offense that's the issue here. Its why our team collapses so regularly. We have no strength so to speak - real, or perceived.

Good post.

[yosemiteben]

I really did believe that the shooting was on the roster at first until I realized that we're leading the league in most stats that revolve around bad shooting and wasted movement on offense.

I agree. I've spent more time defending the guy than most, but we have got to improve our offense.

[BeesWax]

If we are thinking about letting him go we need to have had some talks with potential coaches ahead of time. I would hope we go young in the Brad Stevens mold.

[mrknowitall215]

Clifford ceases to amaze me almost every game with his bizarro lineups/rotations at the most inopportune times, but the onus of this team is on Cho just as much as him. Somewhere there has to be a cross conflict in belief on the direction of this team between Clifford & Cho, whether it's what players should be playing, what players should be acquired, and/or how they should be used

[Liver_Pooty]

If we are thinking about letting him go we need to have had some talks with potential coaches ahead of time. I would hope we go young in the Brad Stevens mold.

Billy Donovan is interested in making the jump.

[BeesWax]

If we are thinking about letting him go we need to have had some talks with potential coaches ahead of time. I would hope we go young in the Brad Stevens mold.

Billy Donovan is interested in making the jump.

Not really very young but I think he would be good. My first call might be to Tony Bennett. Not sure we can pry him from UVA but I love his coaching. I wonder what Marshall from Wichita State would think. He wins everywhere he goes and does it with lesser talent.

Edit: To be honest I did not realize Marshall was the same age as Clifford. Bennett would likely be my top choice with Donovan as a second. Both just seem to be more energetic and confident as coaches. Hoiberg has been mentioned as a possible jump from college as well.

[mrknowitall215]

Were paying a third string PG 4 million dollars. A back up PF 7 million dollars. Ill give Cho a pass on Stephenson because hardly anyone thought he would be this bad, but damn. That is a ton of money.

[BeesWax]

Were paying a third string PG 4 million dollars. A back up PF 7 million dollars. Ill give Cho a pass on Stephenson because hardly anyone thought he would be this bad, but damn. That is a ton of money.

We are paying Roberts less the 3 million a year. Still not a great value but just not a terrible contract overall. 2.8 million expiring next year.

[catch20two]

Cliff did some smart damage control to keep his job security for at least another year by stepping up to bat vouching for Lance and stuff so that fingers don't start pointing at the real problem.

[tondi123]

I suppose it's a good sign for organizational unity if Cliff is willing to take one for the team over Lance.

[ball teacher]

Cliff did some smart damage control to keep his job security for at least another year by stepping up to bat vouching for Lance and stuff so that fingers don't start pointing at the real problem.

Yes indeed, you gotta make sure the vets and team leaders got your back for those end of season interviews and he's doing what he can to make sure Lance wont have any gripes. Kemba and Al wont say anything bad cause they never get put on notice for anything and they pretty much have the offense made for them. I suspect Hendo and Lance wont be as supportive of Cliff though.

[ball teacher]

Clifford ceases to amaze me almost every game with his bizarro lineups/rotations at the most inopportune times, but the onus of this team is on Cho just as much as him. Somewhere there has to be a cross conflict in belief on the direction of this team between Clifford & Cho, whether it's what players should be playing, what players should be acquired, and/or how they should be used

I would think we let Cliff do as he pleases for the fact that he refused to play our 2nd overall pick more than 25 minutes a game and never in the end of games for a season and a half. Cliff had freedom to do as he pleases and all he did was implement a offense that is predicated on using a high pick to get our streaky guard open shots, to post our big man, and have everyone else be ready for jump shots if the first two players kick out to you. That's our offense in a nut shell. I think Cho and Jordan has done nothing to interfere with Cliff even as he clearly failed in making us better. If Brooklyn can be a 7th seed and they missed their best player most of the year there's no excuse for us.

[tondi123]

It does seem pretty obvious that Ciff does whatever he wants, regardless of what makes sense or whether it succeeds.