Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

[tonman]

Its hard to really get a read on what to expect with salaries next summer with the big salary cap jump coming. Based on what Lin is giving us know, he feels like a MLE level player, something in the 5-7 mil range. What will that translate to in the summer, I'm not really sure. I'd love to have him back, but I'd have a really hard time with anything over 7-8 mil a season for anything longer than 3 years. Something similar to what Lamb received 3/21 seems about right to me. Its the golden age of point guards. It would not be that difficult to find a quality backup point guard/combo guard for 7-8 mil per season or less.

so what you're saying is Lin isn't "quality" or on the south end of quality backup point guard/combo guard if he's going to get MLE (which should go up due to cap) of 5-7m. I guess you have to define what a backup PG/combo is supposed to do first, compare against everyone else who is backup and then figure out how much to offer. there are good deals out there sure but can you get them. we're not the greatest FA destination there is.

[Sweetdownlow]

NBA “Dining Table" video for 2016 Chinese New Year. cast: Jeremy Lin, Curry and Harden

http://youtu.be/qSZ5IAUaWhY (1/3)

http://youtu.be/Lhjm8vZ56_4 (2/3)

http://youtu.be/3LEJKHc-f3c (3/3)

[fatlever]

Its hard to really get a read on what to expect with salaries next summer with the big salary cap jump coming. Based on what Lin is giving us know, he feels like a MLE level player, something in the 5-7 mil range. What will that translate to in the summer, I'm not really sure. I'd love to have him back, but I'd have a really hard time with anything over 7-8 mil a season for anything longer than 3 years. Something similar to what Lamb received 3/21 seems about right to me. Its the golden age of point guards. It would not be that difficult to find a quality backup point guard/combo guard for 7-8 mil per season or less.

so what you're saying is Lin isn't "quality" or on the south end of quality backup point guard/combo guard if he's going to get MLE (which should go up due to cap) of 5-7m. I guess you have to define what a backup PG/combo is supposed to do first, compare against everyone else who is backup and then figure out how much to offer. there are good deals out there sure but can you get them. we're not the greatest FA destination there is.

Where are you seeing that I said Lin "isn't quality"?

[BlackOutBuzz]

MLE isn't based on cap, next year is set at $5.628 million.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[fatlever]

MLE isn't based on cap, next year is set at $5.628 million.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

In that case, Lin should be worth more than $5.6mil next summer, based on his role and production. Like I said, I see his value in that 7-8 mil range, but then again, hard to really tell until we see what kind of money the middle players start getting next summer.

[TTNN]

At this moment, I think neither Hornets nor Lin could commit on next season this early. There are so many uncertainties that we are not sure yet.

First of all, since this team was never fully healthy for this season, we really don't know how far this roster can go. Will Batum/MKG fit together, how AI will work in the team, could this roster get into playoff or not. That will all impact on what the team will adjust next summer.

So to Hornets team, first priority of course is to keep Batum. Good thing is we have Batum's bird right, so how much more the team would pay Batum over 20M will not impact on other FA signing, so we could just consider 20M cap space for him. (That's the cap hold for him, and anything higher than that the team could afford to pay over the cap.)

Then next thing is what do we do with AI, if we let him walk, we still need a replacement big. Cody is nice but I don't think he is good enough for full time starter center yet, we still need a rim protector. Whether Hornets sign one from FA, or trade one, we really don't know what kind of price range that will be, and whom will get trade out.

Then is the time to evaluate the development of Lamb/MKG (offensive side)/Kemba (how stable his shooting is), that's the time for the team to decide how big a hole of this back up PG/SG is. Since these players are all on contract and unless any of them got traded, or Batum did not come back, to be honest, there might not be much space left need to be filled. Same with the cap sapce. (I'm not sure how much the big will cost.)

I know Lin is important for this team, but if Kemba holds his shooting efficiency, and Batum stay, Lamb continue to improve his defense, I don't really think this team need (and afford) a 10M combo guard as a back up. It would be more important to get a rim protector that could help to balance the court.

If, Batum/MKG could not work well together well, and the team could not even get into playoff, i'd think there is no point trying to get most of the old player back to continue with current construction, bigger trade might happen, then the whole team could look differently, that will also impact on whether the team will need Lin more or not, and also whether there are bigger cap space opens up or not.

Based on my current calculation, the team has roughly 24M left to get a big, resign Lin and Marvin(or equivalent), fill up the roster, sign the first round pick, unless we trade some bigger salary out like Hawes. So the cap space could be a little big tight.

[13th Man]

I would add that even Batum may be a question mark, do you guys think he's deserving of a max contract? Not the way that he's been playing lately imo. What happens if Batum end up leaving? Agree that the team dynamics with MKG will important for now much Lin would be needed next year. Lastly, it will also depend on what type of offers that Lin gets from other teams in terms of role, will he be offered a starting position elsewhere? Too many uncertainties at this point to make a good guess.

[catch20two]

I would add that even Batum may be a question mark, do you guys think he's deserving of a max contract?

No. I'd rather let him walk before I'd want us to give him a max contract.

[spaceballer]

Op-Ed article by Jeremy Lin on Newsela about bullying.

https://newsela.com/articles/jeremylin-oped/id/14244/

Newsela also teaming up with The Jeremy Lin Foundation to hold a literacy contest for Charlotte-Mecklenburg students. Winning school gets a visit from Jeremy.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/linfinity88/status/689513393732980736[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/linfinity88/status/689513393732980736

His foundation usually does some charity stuff like this in each city he's played for (immigrant war refugee children in Houston, homeless in LA, etc.). So even if he's only in Charlotte for a single season, he'll have tried to leave a positive mark on the community.

[spaceballer]

NBA “Dining Table" video for 2016 Chinese New Year. cast: Jeremy Lin, Curry and Harden

http://youtu.be/qSZ5IAUaWhY (1/3)

http://youtu.be/Lhjm8vZ56_4 (2/3)

http://youtu.be/3LEJKHc-f3c (3/3)

Tweet from Slam magazine with link to detailed article.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/SLAMonline/status/689564562329235457[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/SLAMonline/status/689564562329235457

According to the Slam article, the Hornets Feb.3rd game will be the first of all 30 teams featured in the NBA's Chinese New Year push overseas.

http://www.slamonline.com/media/slam-tv/stephen-curry-james-harden-jeremy-lin-help-the-nba-celebrate-chinese-new-year/

[TinmanZBoy]

the Hornets don't operate over the cap, so it will affect other FA signing... I guess the sequence is 1, Batum...then rest...
Batum's money means a prime Batum+ a better Kemba...

[yosemiteben]

the Hornets don't operate over the cap...

"Haven't", not don't.

MJ is getting the ASG and has made the success of this team a priority. I don't expect him to be super stingy about going over the cap. We'll see.

[TinmanZBoy]

the Hornets don't operate over the cap...

"Haven't", not don't.

MJ is getting the ASG and has made the success of this team a priority. I don't expect him to be super stingy about going over the cap. We'll see.

there is another scenario nobody has mentioned is to sign and trade Nic

[phillycheese]

Reggie Jackson got $18m, can you believe that? Lin at $5-7m is borderline insulting. Ignoring the ones on rookie scale contract, here is what some PGs are making Joseph = $7m, Alec Burks = $9.4m, George Hill = $8m, Jose Calderon = $7.4m, Rodney Stuckey = $7m, G Vasquez = $6.6m, Jarrett Jack = $6.3m. If the Hornets are going to offer a fair deal, it would be in the range of $6-$9m for 2+1. The plus one may be the player's or the team's depending on where in that scale the salary falls. I'm not up to date on where Charlotte cap space is so not sure if this is doable within their limits. But looking at who will be an available free agent next year, Lin will get a lot of looks. Perhaps Charlotte does not need Lin as much as other teams, or rather Charlotte may be better off spending Lin's money on a rim protector.

[HornetJail]

the Hornets don't operate over the cap...

"Haven't", not don't.

MJ is getting the ASG and has made the success of this team a priority. I don't expect him to be super stingy about going over the cap. We'll see.

there is another scenario nobody has mentioned is to sign and trade Nic

Trying to remember the last time a team has ever received fair value in a sign and trade. Drawing a blank.

[TinmanZBoy]

Reggie Jackson got $18m, can you believe that? Lin at $5-7m is borderline insulting. Ignoring the ones on rookie scale contract, here is what some PGs are making Joseph = $7m, Alec Burks = $9.4m, George Hill = $8m, Jose Calderon = $7.4m, Rodney Stuckey = $7m, G Vasquez = $6.6m, Jarrett Jack = $6.3m. If the Hornets are going to offer a fair deal, it would be in the range of $6-$9m for 2+1. The plus one may be the player's or the team's depending on where in that scale the salary falls. I'm not up to date on where Charlotte cap space is so not sure if this is doable within their limits. But looking at who will be an available free agent next year, Lin will get a lot of looks. Perhaps Charlotte does not need Lin as much as other teams, or rather Charlotte may be better off spending Lin's money on a rim protector.

you are right, now lin fans (particularly those from jlinportal) should negotiate with Cho to get Lin a fair deal...

[TinmanZBoy]

"Haven't", not don't.

MJ is getting the ASG and has made the success of this team a priority. I don't expect him to be super stingy about going over the cap. We'll see.

there is another scenario nobody has mentioned is to sign and trade Nic

Trying to remember the last time a team has ever received fair value in a sign and trade. Drawing a blank.

it's better than let nic walk for nothing

[HornetJail]

Reggie Jackson got $18m, can you believe that? Lin at $5-7m is borderline insulting. Ignoring the ones on rookie scale contract, here is what some PGs are making Joseph = $7m, Alec Burks = $9.4m, George Hill = $8m, Jose Calderon = $7.4m, Rodney Stuckey = $7m, G Vasquez = $6.6m, Jarrett Jack = $6.3m. If the Hornets are going to offer a fair deal, it would be in the range of $6-$9m for 2+1. The plus one may be the player's or the team's depending on where in that scale the salary falls. I'm not up to date on where Charlotte cap space is so not sure if this is doable within their limits. But looking at who will be an available free agent next year, Lin will get a lot of looks. Perhaps Charlotte does not need Lin as much as other teams, or rather Charlotte may be better off spending Lin's money on a rim protector.

Jackson is probably a bad contract, though he is playing quite well for Detroit (hard not to when you've got a big like Drummond and a coach like SVG). I wouldn't want him at that money.

Joseph is paid adequately, maybe a little bit much but not terrible. Lin is the closest comparison on this list.

Burks is not a PG.

Hill is underpaid due to the fact he was signed 3 or 4 years ago to that deal. He'll probably make eight figures on his next deal.

Jose is a terrible contract.

Stuckey is not that good. At $7M, he is neutral value at best.

Vasquez and Jack suck and are injured and will not get $6M on their next deals.

Lin at $7M is perfectly justifiable. I'd sign him to the contract Lamb got but with a team option on the third year *assuming we exhaust our top options in free agency. Any more than that, and I'm looking elsewhere for a cheaper PG like Bayless, who will probably sign for $5-6M tops.

[HornetJail]

there is another scenario nobody has mentioned is to sign and trade Nic

Trying to remember the last time a team has ever received fair value in a sign and trade. Drawing a blank.

it's better than let nic walk for nothing

I don't think you realize how bad S&T offers for unrestricted free agents usually are.

-> 7-12-14: The Sacramento Kings signed-and-traded Isaiah Thomas to the Phoenix Suns for the rights to Alex Oriakhi and a trade exception.

-> 7-15-14: In a three-team trade, the Houston Rockets traded Omer Asik, Omri Casspi and cash considerations to the New Orleans Pelicans, the New Orleans Pelicans traded Melvin Ely and a trade exception to the Washington Wizards and Alonzo Gee, Scotty Hopson and a 2015 first-round pick to the Rockets, and the Wizards sign-and-traded Trevor Ariza to the Rockets.
(Washington got a 92-year-old Melvin Ely and a TPE for Trevor Ariza.)

->7-19-14: The Boston Celtics sign-and-traded Kris Humphries to the Washington Wizards for a 2015 second-round pick.

-> 7-10-13: In a three-way trade, the Oklahoma City Thunder sign-and-trade Kevin Martin to the Minnesota Timberwolves, the Timberwolves trade Luke Ridnour and a 2014 second-round pick to the Milwaukee Bucks and the Bucks trade the draft rights to Szymon Szewczyk to the Oklahoma City Thunder. The Thunder also sent cash considerations to the Bucks and Timberwolves.
(OKC got Szzzzmn Sczmwynmwk for Kevin Martin and had to give up cash to do it)

-> 7-10-13: In a three-way trade, the Denver Nuggets sign-and-trade Andre Iguodala to the Golden State Warriors, the Utah Jazz trade Randy Foye to the Nuggets and the Warriors trade Richard Jefferson, Andris Biedrins, Brandon Rush, a 2014 first-round pick, a 2017 first-round pick, a 2016 second-round pick and a 2017 second-round pick. The Jazz also received a 2018 second-round pick from the Nuggets.
(Denver got Randy Foye for Andre Iguodala)

-> 7-11-12: Orlando signs and trades Ryan Anderson to New Orleans for Gustavo Ayon.

-> 12-10-11: 12-10-11: Dallas signs and trades Tyson Chandler to New York with the draft rights to Ahmad Nivins and Giorgos Printezis. They also send a protected 2012 second-round pick to Washington (not exercised). New York sends Andy Rautins to Dallas. They also send Ronny Turiaf, cash and a 2013 second-round pick to Washington. Dallas sends a 2012 second-round pick (Darius Miller) to Washington
(Dallas gets diddly squat for Tyson Chandler)

-> 7-20-10: Golden State signs and trades C.J. Watson to the Chicago Bulls for a 2011 second-round pick (Charles Jenkins).

-> 7-14-10: Atlanta signs and trades Josh Childress to Phoenix for a 2012 second-round pick (Mike Scott).

-> 7-13-10: Golden State signs and trades Anthony Morrow to New Jersey for a conditional 2011 second-round pick (not exercised).

-> 7-9-10: Toronto signs and trades Chris Bosh to Miami for Miami’s 2011 first-round pick (Norris Cole) and re-acquires their own 2011 first-round pick (Jonas Valanciunas).
(Easily the most reasonable so far- still not good)

-> 7-9-10: New York signs and trades David Lee to Golden State for Kelenna Azubuike, Ronny Turiaf, and Anthony Randolph.

-> 7-8-10: Utah signs and trades Carlos Boozer to Chicago for a protected second-round pick (not exercised).

-> 7-8-10: Phoenix signs and trades Amar’e Stoudemire to New York for a protected second-round pick (not exercised).





------------

I really don't know why I want through all this, but I hope it gives you an idea of how S&T deals of unrestricted free agents are essentially zero. The only reason a S&T happens to so that a capped out team can gain a TPE, or the receiving team can fit the signing into an existing TPE.

[TinmanZBoy]

Trying to remember the last time a team has ever received fair value in a sign and trade. Drawing a blank.

it's better than let nic walk for nothing

I don't think you realize how bad S&T offers for unrestricted free agents usually are.

-> 7-12-14: The Sacramento Kings signed-and-traded Isaiah Thomas to the Phoenix Suns for the rights to Alex Oriakhi and a trade exception.

-> 7-15-14: In a three-team trade, the Houston Rockets traded Omer Asik, Omri Casspi and cash considerations to the New Orleans Pelicans, the New Orleans Pelicans traded Melvin Ely and a trade exception to the Washington Wizards and Alonzo Gee, Scotty Hopson and a 2015 first-round pick to the Rockets, and the Wizards sign-and-traded Trevor Ariza to the Rockets.
(Washington got a 92-year-old Melvin Ely and a TPE for Trevor Ariza.)

->7-19-14: The Boston Celtics sign-and-traded Kris Humphries to the Washington Wizards for a 2015 second-round pick.

-> 7-10-13: In a three-way trade, the Oklahoma City Thunder sign-and-trade Kevin Martin to the Minnesota Timberwolves, the Timberwolves trade Luke Ridnour and a 2014 second-round pick to the Milwaukee Bucks and the Bucks trade the draft rights to Szymon Szewczyk to the Oklahoma City Thunder. The Thunder also sent cash considerations to the Bucks and Timberwolves.
(OKC got Szzzzmn Sczmwynmwk for Kevin Martin and had to give up cash to do it)

-> 7-10-13: In a three-way trade, the Denver Nuggets sign-and-trade Andre Iguodala to the Golden State Warriors, the Utah Jazz trade Randy Foye to the Nuggets and the Warriors trade Richard Jefferson, Andris Biedrins, Brandon Rush, a 2014 first-round pick, a 2017 first-round pick, a 2016 second-round pick and a 2017 second-round pick. The Jazz also received a 2018 second-round pick from the Nuggets.
(Denver got Randy Foye for Andre Iguodala)

-> 7-11-12: Orlando signs and trades Ryan Anderson to New Orleans for Gustavo Ayon.

-> 12-10-11: 12-10-11: Dallas signs and trades Tyson Chandler to New York with the draft rights to Ahmad Nivins and Giorgos Printezis. They also send a protected 2012 second-round pick to Washington (not exercised). New York sends Andy Rautins to Dallas. They also send Ronny Turiaf, cash and a 2013 second-round pick to Washington. Dallas sends a 2012 second-round pick (Darius Miller) to Washington
(Dallas gets diddly squat for Tyson Chandler)

-> 7-20-10: Golden State signs and trades C.J. Watson to the Chicago Bulls for a 2011 second-round pick (Charles Jenkins).

-> 7-14-10: Atlanta signs and trades Josh Childress to Phoenix for a 2012 second-round pick (Mike Scott).

-> 7-13-10: Golden State signs and trades Anthony Morrow to New Jersey for a conditional 2011 second-round pick (not exercised).

-> 7-9-10: Toronto signs and trades Chris Bosh to Miami for Miami’s 2011 first-round pick (Norris Cole) and re-acquires their own 2011 first-round pick (Jonas Valanciunas).
(Easily the most reasonable so far- still not good)

-> 7-9-10: New York signs and trades David Lee to Golden State for Kelenna Azubuike, Ronny Turiaf, and Anthony Randolph.

-> 7-8-10: Utah signs and trades Carlos Boozer to Chicago for a protected second-round pick (not exercised).

-> 7-8-10: Phoenix signs and trades Amar’e Stoudemire to New York for a protected second-round pick (not exercised).





------------

I really don't know why I want through all this, but I hope it gives you an idea of how S&T deals of unrestricted free agents are essentially zero. The only reason a S&T happens to so that a capped out team can gain a TPE, or the receiving team can fit the signing into an existing TPE.

nobody said you will get value back, it is better than nothing, just one of scenarios that might end up