Geometry: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

[yosemiteben]

Cody's rim runs would do wonders for Frank. Defenses don't have to pay much attention to Marv. Marv occasionally catches his defender sleeping and ducks in for an easy basket, but he's an easy cover that doesn't move much or require tight D right now.

[HornetJail]

We have nothing to lose. Bring Marvin Williams off the bench in a hybrid PF/C role when Cody returns and see what Frank can do with the starters. At least Marvin could bring some semblance of defense and shooting to our bench unit.

[fatlever]

I'm still not convinced Frank can play at this level vs PFs. He seems to do most of his best work when being guarded by slow Cs who are afraid to come out to 3pt line, leaving him wide open, or making the mistake of coming to guard him and Frank driving past allowing him some breathing room to create on the move.

He doesn't get that same kind of room vs PFs and many times teams will just put a wing on him and live with Frank's inconsistent paint game if he tries to use his size advantage.

Frank needs to get to the point where he can exploit both situations equally.

[BlackOutBuzz]

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[euphorbus]

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That would rule out the Hornets, for sure.

[Eoghan]

What's this 'inside game" he speaks of? I thought those were outlawed with the coming of Lord D'Antoni?

[Travers]

Frank now plays like the second best player behind Kemba.

[yosemiteben]

Massive rewriting of the narrative on our 2015 draft in process. Frank looks like a game changing stud.

[countryboi]

Frank at Center looks like a new man...his ability to shoot is really hard on centers

[Chapelchilla]

Frank has been a lot better then he was given credit for ever since we drafted him.
Yeah, he had a few shaky streaks where he lost confidence for awhile but the dude has ball skills that are rare in a 7 footer.

[yosemiteben]

***long post alert***

I decided to do a deep drive on the "Frank is a C" topic because it's been rubbing me the wrong way and I thought an unbiased look at the data would be helpful to either vindicate my uneasiness or to force me to have a wake up call.

Let's examine what is meant by the claim that Frank is really a C. Obviously Frank himself has not changed, so the question is whether Frank is better equipped to do the sort of stuff he is asked to do when he is a C than the sort of stuff he is asked to do when he is a PF.

Has Frank's role changed since starting next to Marv? Offensively I think the answer is no. His role is nearly identical, he's just shooting better / scoring more efficiently. Frank has clearly had a massive jump in efficiency - pre-ASB, he shot 40.0% FG, 31.3% 3PT on 4.3 attempts, 73.9% FT, and 48.9% TS (worst on the team). Post-ASB, he is shooting 43.8% FG, 44.8% 3PT on 7.3 attempts (!!!), 91.7% FT, and 57.7% TS (3rd on team - side note, Kemba has a 70% TS post-ASB!!!).

However, the majority of his outside shots are still either open with only a late contest or entirely uncontested. Frank is shooting a greater proportion of his shots from 3 post-ASB than pre-ASB, and I think Frank's propensity to pump fake has greatly diminished. Given that Frank is typically matched up with Cs, perhaps there is an additional mental edge that comes from his knowledge that a contest likely isn't coming because the Cs aren't used to closing in the same way as PFs, but the types of shots he is taking, and how open he is when taking those shots, is not dramatically different. I think this makes sense because we know that a lot of 3s he takes are out of pick and pop situations, and regardless of who is guarding him his man is often getting sucked in to help contain our drives.

Now, the obvious follow up when talking about his offense is whether he is better off playing next to a stretch PF like Marv or a more physical slashing big with less shooting ability like Cody or Miles or perhaps MKG. I personally do not think that Marv is contributing meaningfully to the improvement in Frank's shooting. I can see the argument that playing Frank next to Marv forces more desirable defensive matchups by teams we are playing, but the evidence is clear to me that Frank gets open shots no matter who he is on the floor with, and that any negative brought on by taking away a floor spacer in Marv is offset by putting in a PNR specialist that will suck in perimeter defenders to help try to contain Kemba. I also think you could easily use Frank as a ballhandler and force switches in PNR sets, which has the side result of setting up some really interesting PNR sets with Frank as the primary ball handler using his passing and awareness to feed Cody on the roll.

Defensively, I believe the answer to whether his role has changed by playing next to Marv is a weak yes - we still defend the PNR the same and still employ the same scheme to protect on drives, but Frank is definitely guarding a different type of player than he did before. We've seen him matched up with some traditional centers in JVal, Nogueira, Drummond, Baynes, Koufos, and DJ, and the sort of defense he has to play against those guys is definitely different. Frank's DRTG is basically unchanged pre- and post-ASB, which is not too meaningful given the weakness of the teams we've played post-ASB but is perhaps made more meaningful by virtue of the fact that he is playing more generally (+10 mpg post-ASB compared to pre-ASB) and specifically against starting units. His individual DRB% has increased to 20% from 15.8%, and our team DRB% with him on the court post-ASB is 80%, so we can at least say that he is not hurting us on the boards even if our success in rebounding is attributable to other members of the starting unit (looking at you, MKG).

Calling this out because this is the opposite of what I expected - his rim protection numbers have shown a massive increase since moving to C. Pre-ASB he allowed 58.9% on 4.0 rim FGAs, but that percentage has dropped to 42.1% on 6.3 FGAs post-ASB. Interestingly that is not the largest improvement on the team - Marv allowed 53.3% on 3.5 attempts pre-ASB, but post-ASB has only allowed 33.0% on more than double the number of attempts at 9.0. It is interesting that Marv has significantly more rim DFGA despite the fact that he has played significantly less minutes at Frank and is not guarding Cs, and I'm not sure how that impacts the analysis here. Suffice it to say though that Frank's paint D has not been close to a problem so far at C.

After looking at the stats, I think Frank spending time at C is more viable than I expected. I specifically did not expect his paint defense stats to look so good, and I also expected to see a dip in our DRB% with him on the floor. With that said, I am still not really convinced by the argument that he can't play at this level as a PF next to a PNR guy at C.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I think that Frank playing with the starting unit and at multiple positions has helped his development. His confidence seems to be growing and the early season inconsistency seems to be fading. His development trajectory reminds me a lot of Cody in terms of timeline.

I don’t really like a lot of the C vs PF discussion on the board with folks taking hard positions like “Frank a Center!!!!” Personally I don’t think that the answer is quite so clear cut. I think that the lens we have to work with here is Cliff’s system. For Coach Clifford there seems to be a huge difference between what he wants out of a PF and what he wants out of a C on offence. On defense I think that the roles are more fluid. I would argue, that in an odd way Frank is playing still playing “Cliff PF” on offense. As yosemiteben noted, he’s still taking open threes and making the same PnR plays as he did pre-ASB. What we don’t see is Frank playing like Cody does (or like Al used to). I’m actually pretty interested to see Cody and Frank play together as starters at some point for this very reason. My sense is that they could complement each other really well in the system.

So, is Frank a PF or a C? Here, on this team, with this coach, I think his future is PF.

Will he play center more in the future? I suspect that this will be dictated by injuries.

Was trading for Plum a mistake? Too early to tell. I don’t like the cap implication either and I also think that the trade held the team back from making other moves at the deadline. But if Cody/Plum can nail down that center position and Frank keeps up his improved play when he moves back to PF … then it could work out.

[JGib23]

Yosemiteben- great analysis...

My .02 of Frank as a C vs. PF is the comfort level of knowing he has a little more time to set up his shot because of the slower close outs so even if the amount of open looks are the same he is performing better knowing a slower athlete is closing out on him. Maybe as his confidence grows it won't be a mental issue no matter if he's lining up a C or PF.

What I really would like to see over the last 2 months of the season is an extended look at how Cody and Frank can coexist on the floor.

Also, if they mesh well.. What do we need from our SF? Meaning in the current NBA will having 2 starters (Cody & MKG) that are not a threat to score from the perimeter clog the lane and make Kemba less effective.

We have collected a fair amount of assets on cheap contract (Kemba, MKG, Frank, and Cody) now we have to make sure those pieces fit together in a way that helps us win....

If Frank continues to improve and can add about 10-12lbs of muscle this summer so that he can start finishing some of those looks in the paint, he could avg. about 18-20 points per game next season... If that's the case, we have our 2nd option behind Kemba and Nic can assume his more natural 3rd option glue guy.

I feel better about the team than I did a month ago but, this summer is HUGE.

[MPM]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/article135690418.html

Thread name-change option?

Red-Hot Weirdo: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

[Snidely FC]

I watch Frank now and I just think, wow he can play basketball. He just looks smart out there (doofy but smart!).

My eye test thinks Frank likes Center because he gets his rhythm going in the post and it follows him out to the 3 pt line. That was his game in college, so why are we at all surprised? He's really uncorked some nifty post moves the last several games. Not sure he's quite in the same rhythm when forced to only drive while Cody mans the post. And NIc and Cody sure need each other.

I think the perfect solution to whether Frank should play PF or C is both! I like our big man rotation of Cody, Frank, Marvin & Plumlee. I think Cliff will be able to mix and match the four without having to change sets.

And Frank's persona is so quirky and unselfconscious, if he keeps his play up, I think he's got star quality.

[SWedd523]

I remember people complaining about how crazy low his FG% was with a defender x feet away.

Now he's hitting them and the narrative has changed.

Hopefully this is the new recipe Beef Frank instead of that **** Chicken/Pork Frank we had for awhile, but he's always been a hot and cold player so we'll see if he can sustain it

[JGib23]

If we change the title to this thread it has to be "Worth more than Four 1st rounders: The Frank Kaminsky Thread"... One day maybe even the Dirk Kawitzki- The Frank Kaminsky NBA MVP thread.

[fatlever]

The argument to start Frank and Cody from ATH

http://www.atthehive.com/2017/3/2/14784836/let-frank-kaminsky-cook-feature

[fatlever]

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[CatgutStitches]

The argument to start Frank and Cody from ATH

http://www.atthehive.com/2017/3/2/14784836/let-frank-kaminsky-cook-feature

Good read...interesting that our best 2 man combo is Frank and Zeller. Bodes well for the future.