Around The NBA 2.0

[HornetJail]

[Eoghan]

A) It was one game

B) My post is still valid, homey.

[thruthefire]

https://twitter.com/AminNBA/status/307962315796520960

[Eoghan]

https://twitter.com/AminNBA/status/307962315796520960

Antoine Walker would disagree with him apparently.

[BigSlam]

Lo and behold, in only his second or third start, Kanter goes for 23points/22reounds on 83% shooting against, of all teams, the Bobcats.

Just thought I’d post a big (but light-hearted) I told you so to all the posters who had no clue what they were talking about with respect to Kanter.

A number of people on here laughed at me earlier this season when I claimed that Kanter would eventually be a 15/10 center who shoots 50% and I suggested Charlotte merely consider the possibility of some package of MKG + Biyombo or the Portland pick for Kanter.

Back in January, I wrote the following on page 72-73 of the thread below:

[url]
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1214847&start=1065 [/url]

“I've been a big proponent of inquiring on Kanter for a long time. He's the type of young, legit center that we need going forward. Making inquiries on him should be a priority. It amazes me that people are talking about throwing huge $ at Pekovic when Kanter is easily capable of similar production and is 6 years younger and still on a rookie deal.

Quite honestly, save for Kemba, Charlotte's assets might be a stretch to get Kanter. But they should at least try. Everyone loves MKG but there is no reason to be opposed to swapping him for another equally young and equally potential-laden talent, especially considering the 2014 draft will have 3 offensively gifted SF's who are almost certainly going to be far better players than Gilchrist. Same story with Biz. If there is good value to be had, he needs to be expendable.

I'd float MKG + Biz or MKG + Portland pick for Kanter. Utah might still pass but they'd have to look hard at such an offer. An athletic lock down wing defender who could eventually be a gerald wallace type would be great next to a shooter like Hayward.

Dont under-rate Kanter and dont let his numbers fool you. He's buried behind jefferson, millsap and Favors so he gets very few minutes. When he does see the court, he produces. As Masterlchiro points out, its entirely possible MKG alone wouldnt even be enough to entice Utah. Both young players have high potential but Kanter has demonstrated more likelihood of fulfilling his than MKG. With 36 mins per night on a team like Charlotte, Kanter would be a double-double machine.

Apart from Pekovic and maybe Dwight Howard, he establishes post position on offense and maintains his post ground on defense better than anyone in the league. I guarantee everyone, once Kanter is getting 36 mins per night, be it at Utah or somewhere else, you can count on a 14-17 point and 9-11 rebound guy. Utah isnt blind to this, they just happen to be in the enviable position of having two other allstar bigs and another top 3 pick big in front of him.

If we can pry him away for anyone on the roster apart from Kemba, Charlotte would be foolish to not at least make an inquiry as he could anchor the center spot for the next decade. Hell, I'd even throw in our later first rounder if necessary.

First, people speak of "giving up" on our top three pick as if we're waiving him. We're not. The suggested Kanter inquiry would involve us trading our top 3 pick for another top 3 pick who is roughly the same age, has shown greater sign of fulfilling his potential at this albeit early stage and plays a position of need that is much harder to fill. And I would of course start discussions with Biz and the Port 1st before putting MKG on the negotiating table.

I suspect a number of Kanter's naysayers have hardly watched him play for Utah. As noted, his numbers are pedestrian because he only sees 15 mpg as he is buried behind two allstar post men and another top pick in Favors. When he plays, he produces. Had some monster games in the preseason and an 18/9 outing in a rare start earlier this year with Jefferson and millsap injured. The rest of the time, he is usually playing sporadic minutes riding the pine.

Kanter is 3x the player Biyombo is and apart from raw shot blocking, is vastly superior to him in every facet of the game. Utah wouldnt have interest in Biyombo alone. Once Kanter is getting starters minutes in Utah or elsewhere, just like the James Harden doubters from a couple years ago, people are going to eat their words.



Bassman, glover and a few others voiced support for my suggestion but most others were by and large insistent that Kanter was nothing special and were downright incredulous that I would have the audacity to propose parting with MKG for him. A few even went to far to argue that Biyombo was a better big man prospect than Kanter – something that looks even more silly after Kanter’s man handling of Biyombo last night

Seeing trade ideas like MKG and Biyombo for Kanter just makes me giggle if anything.

All this Kanter love is hilarious. He not only doesnt start, but he plays behind Derrick Favors as well, but dont worry he is going to be a top 5 big man in basketball when given minutes?????????

Jefferson and Millsap are good players, but they are not even top 15 big men in the NBA. If Favors and Kanter were sooo good don't you think Utah would have been trying to deal Millsap or Jefferson actively to get another piece back instead of just waiting for them to become free agents?

If Kanter is capable of "conservatively" producing at that level right now [15/10 on 50% shooting], he wouldn't be averaging 14 minutes a night on a .500 team

Enough of this Biyombo/MKG for Kanter talk. Its making me nauseous.

Kanter's per-minute numbers are solid, but he's incredibly turnover-prone, less productive on the defensive glass than Biz, and not a shot-blocker.

LOL, not really. Biz is already a floor general on defense and all he needs to do is keep improving his offensive fundamentals which is a lot more likely than Kanter magically becoming the athlete Biz is. Kanter in no way shape or form has the same physical gifts as Biz which vastly limits his potential. The only thing Kanter is vastly superior to Biz is post moves, touch, and lower body strength. I doubt Biz ever develops comparative touch since that is something you're more or less born with but another couple years of development and Biz can easily be as productive as Kanter who is not likely to get much better as a player than he is now.

I'm glad some of you aren't GMs

Too many people on Real GM are poor judges of talent and over-reliant on raw stats with no regard to context.

Not that it would matter this far in the season because Utah would now laugh and hang up the phone if we made the offer, but is there anyone here who would still not at least merely consider parting with MKG for Kanter having now seen first hand what Kanter is capable of?

While we are taking the opportunity to spruik...

Pity you were about a year behind those of us who were already in the know and were singing his virtues a year earlier...



Of course, you make a post like this dmutombo321 and you also better make a post for ALL the guys you have called as break out players and don't break out as well.

And there have been a lot of those!!

[BigSlam]

And merged....

[catch20two]

https://twitter.com/AminNBA/status/307962315796520960

I'll go ahead and take this as a direct shot at our team as well. I agree with SVG that playing time is not synonymous with development. I've been saying that about our rebuild since the beginning of the season.

[dmutombo321]

While we are taking the opportunity to spruik...

Pity you were about a year behind those of us who were already in the know and were singing his virtues a year earlier...



Of course, you make a post like this dmutombo321 and you also better make a post for ALL the guys you have called as break out players and don't break out as well.

And there have been a lot of those!!

I've been a Kanter proponent since day one and can dig up posts to that effect too. We had no chance of drafting the guy at #7 though.

As for other predictions I previously made, I was roundly excoriated for suggesting 2 years ago, when he was still riding OKC's bench, that we consider clearing cap space to offer a max deal to James Harden once he was able to hit the market as a FA. I'd say I've been vindicated on that one.

Had a long draft day rant minutes after we passed on brook lopez for DJA. Still feel pretty good about that as well.

The only one that comes to mind who isnt doing so hot is James Johnson but I merely proposed acquiring him as a cheap pickup if we didnt draft a SF last year. Honestly, I feel he's a poor fit for SAC and still think he'll be a good, cheap addition for somebody next year.

Also, wanted them to take a flier on Rodney White in year one. He washed out of the league for being a head case but wouldnt have cost them much to try.

Making bold predictions and debating is all in good fun of course.

I’ll never let you live down our heated 2007 volley where you Insisted that Kevin Durant would play PF in the nba.

I’ll be way off base on something sooner or later and when I am, feel free to rub it in! I’ll deserve it!

[Eoghan]

I'd still like to know why I was quoted in a "I told you so" thread.


Oh and to explain my Antoine Walker comment above, I was listening to some game and one of the announcers was talking about a story Antoine Walker told him. Something about when Walker was a rookie, the GM/coach came over to him and said "we're gonna tank the rest of the season so you'll get more playing time" and that he largely accredited his improvement/development with all the minutes he got.

[BigSlam]

While we are taking the opportunity to spruik...

Pity you were about a year behind those of us who were already in the know and were singing his virtues a year earlier...



Of course, you make a post like this dmutombo321 and you also better make a post for ALL the guys you have called as break out players and don't break out as well.

And there have been a lot of those!!

I've been a Kanter proponent since day one and can dig up posts to that effect too. We had no chance of drafting the guy at #7 though.

As for other predictions I previously made, I was roundly excoriated for suggesting 2 years ago, when he was still riding OKC's bench, that we consider clearing cap space to offer a max deal to James Harden once he was able to hit the market as a FA. I'd say I've been vindicated on that one.

Had a long draft day rant minutes after we passed on brook lopez for DJA. Still feel pretty good about that as well.

The only one that comes to mind who isnt doing so hot is James Johnson but I merely proposed acquiring him as a cheap pickup if we didnt draft a SF last year. Honestly, I feel he's a poor fit for SAC and still think he'll be a good, cheap addition for somebody next year.

Also, wanted them to take a flier on Rodney White in year one. He washed out of the league for being a head case but wouldnt have cost them much to try.

Making bold predictions and debating is all in good fun of course.

I’ll never let you live down our heated 2007 volley where you Insisted that Kevin Durant would play PF in the nba.

I’ll be way off base on something sooner or later and when I am, feel free to rub it in! I’ll deserve it!

I wanted to trade both picks (kemba and biz) up to land Kanter and got smashed for it. Like you, I have watched him closely in the NBA though and in the limited mins he has got it was obvious that he has it all.

SWedd and I were the ONLY two dudes on this board preaching the Harden tale when he was with the Sun Devils. People saying he was too small or too passive or not good enough in any one area. It was ONLY us too that that knew, prior to his combine results, that he was special.

On the Durant thing - I was the lone voice in suggesting taking him #1 overall. I loved him at Texas. FTR: Does play some PF these days. Ask Fats about how high I was on Durant going into that draft.

How is Spencer Hawes looking these days? The guy you wanted to throw 7+ at?



Of course, I also said that Rodney Carney was Vince Carter lite (after watching 1 Memphis game), Beasley was better than Rose because Rose had a loose handle and Beasley was a scoring and rebounding machine and that the UConn Marcus WIlliams was Kidd like so WTF do I know???

[dmutombo321]

While we are taking the opportunity to spruik...

Pity you were about a year behind those of us who were already in the know and were singing his virtues a year earlier...



Of course, you make a post like this dmutombo321 and you also better make a post for ALL the guys you have called as break out players and don't break out as well.

And there have been a lot of those!!

I've been a Kanter proponent since day one and can dig up posts to that effect too. We had no chance of drafting the guy at #7 though.

As for other predictions I previously made, I was roundly excoriated for suggesting 2 years ago, when he was still riding OKC's bench, that we consider clearing cap space to offer a max deal to James Harden once he was able to hit the market as a FA. I'd say I've been vindicated on that one.

Had a long draft day rant minutes after we passed on brook lopez for DJA. Still feel pretty good about that as well.

The only one that comes to mind who isnt doing so hot is James Johnson but I merely proposed acquiring him as a cheap pickup if we didnt draft a SF last year. Honestly, I feel he's a poor fit for SAC and still think he'll be a good, cheap addition for somebody next year.

Also, wanted them to take a flier on Rodney White in year one. He washed out of the league for being a head case but wouldnt have cost them much to try.

Making bold predictions and debating is all in good fun of course.

I’ll never let you live down our heated 2007 volley where you Insisted that Kevin Durant would play PF in the nba.

I’ll be way off base on something sooner or later and when I am, feel free to rub it in! I’ll deserve it!

I wanted to trade both picks (kemba and biz) up to land Kanter and got smashed for it. Like you, I have watched him closely in the NBA though and in the limited mins he has got it was obvious that he has it all.

SWedd and I were the ONLY two dudes on this board preaching the Harden tale when he was with the Sun Devils. People saying he was too small or too passive or not good enough in any one area. It was ONLY us too that that knew, prior to his combine results, that he was special.

On the Durant thing - I was the lone voice in suggesting taking him #1 overall. I loved him at Texas. FTR: Does play some PF these days. Ask Fats about how high I was on Durant going into that draft.

How is Spencer Hawes looking these days? The guy you wanted to throw 7+ at?



Of course, I also said that Rodney Carney was Vince Carter lite (after watching 1 Memphis game), Beasley was better than Rose because Rose had a loose handle and Beasley was a scoring and rebounding machine and that the UConn Marcus WIlliams was Kidd like so WTF do I know???

Oyeah, I forgot about Hawes.

I advocated signing him to the longest term possible at 5 mil per year though, not 7. That particular offseason, he probably could have been had for that. He played out a year on his qualifier and then philly locked him up next season for 2/13.

I'm still high on him to a degree. He's skilled but an enigma. He'll disappear for stretches and then have a huge game. He just posted 20/15 his last outing but was overshadowed by Noah's monster triple double the same evening.

My James Harden kick wasnt until his second season in the league when he really started to show flashes. I was pretty ambivalent towards him during the draft since we didnt have a shot at him that year.

I do remember you pushing for Durant #1. We just disagreed on his best position in the pros.

I also expected Beasley to be a lot better than he has been. He has the raw talent but frankly, I think he's just too dumb.

Another draft favorite who I recall we had mutual admiration for was Terrance Williams. If he could just screw his damn head on straight, he could be a good player in this league.

Hopefully he makes the most of these Boston 10 dayers because this will probably be his last shot.

[TheKingofSting]

Blazers have to beat the Timberwolves of the world if we have any hope of getting that pick this year.

[dmutombo321]

I'd still like to know why I was quoted in a "I told you so" thread.

Well, because, in response to

Kanter is 3x the player Biyombo is and apart from raw shot blocking, is vastly superior to him in every facet of the game.

you stated:

LOL, not really. Biz is already a floor general on defense and all he needs to do is keep improving his offensive fundamentals which is a lot more likely than Kanter magically becoming the athlete Biz is. Kanter in no way shape or form has the same physical gifts as Biz which vastly limits his potential. The only thing Kanter is vastly superior to Biz is post moves, touch, and lower body strength. I doubt Biz ever develops comparative touch since that is something you're more or less born with but another couple years of development and Biz can easily be as productive as Kanter who is not likely to get much better as a player than he is now.

And then Kanter proceeds to go out and drop 23/22 on Biyombo, holds Biyombo to 1 point and 1 rebound and repeatedly embarrasses him in the post before Biz was finally benched.

The stock "but he's only 20 years old" argument people use to defend Biyombo (and MKG) doesnt work against Kanter because he's just as young as they are.

I expect Biz to develop into a serviceable Ben Wallace lite type big man 11/8/3. He'll never be in the same tier as Kanter when it comes to big men.

[dmutombo321]

Blazers have to beat the Timberwolves of the world if we have any hope of getting that pick this year.

Looking at the standings out west, I see no way Port or LA can get back into the playoffs save for injury.

Utah and Houston are just playing too well.

I want the portland pick but would be just as content waiting another year while it loses further protection

[HornetJail]

Portland pick won't lose protection till I think 2016. They'll make the PO's before then. Hope they can put the jets back on this year so we get the pick in 2014. I'd rather have the 16th pick next year than the 10th this year.

LA will probably make it. The league won't let their favorite child miss out on the playoffs, as much as I want to see this superstar laden team fail (I hate Kobe, Howard, MWP, and the Lakers in general enough to root against Steve Nash, one of my top 5 favorite players ever, wow). Plus I've got 30 bucks on them missing the playoffs from a bet I made almost two months ago. 30 bucks can buy a hell of a lot of tacos, my meal plan balance is already running low and we're only a month and a half into the semester. :|

[Eoghan]

I'd still like to know why I was quoted in a "I told you so" thread.

Well, because, in response to

Kanter is 3x the player Biyombo is and apart from raw shot blocking, is vastly superior to him in every facet of the game.

you stated:

LOL, not really. Biz is already a floor general on defense and all he needs to do is keep improving his offensive fundamentals which is a lot more likely than Kanter magically becoming the athlete Biz is. Kanter in no way shape or form has the same physical gifts as Biz which vastly limits his potential. The only thing Kanter is vastly superior to Biz is post moves, touch, and lower body strength. I doubt Biz ever develops comparative touch since that is something you're more or less born with but another couple years of development and Biz can easily be as productive as Kanter who is not likely to get much better as a player than he is now.

And then Kanter proceeds to go out and drop 23/22 on Biyombo, holds Biyombo to 1 point and 1 rebound and repeatedly embarrasses him in the post before Biz was finally benched.

The stock "but he's only 20 years old" argument people use to defend Biyombo (and MKG) doesnt work against Kanter because he's just as young as they are.

I expect Biz to develop into a serviceable Ben Wallace lite type big man 11/8/3. He'll never be in the same tier as Kanter when it comes to big men.

Ah, but you see where you messed up was "Vastly superior to him in every facet of the game." Every means every, not most. Biz is superior athletically and therefore has a lot more potential on offense and defense than Kanter who can barely jump over a phone book. My post holds water. That one game of Kanter destroying Biz is no more conclusive than that one game where Biz shut down Dwight.

Like I posted in the game thread, the argument "they're both young" doesn't hold up either. Kanter's development is far beyond Bismack's. Kanter played professional ball in Turkey, Bismack played professional ball in Yemen and Spain. Kanter played high school in the States, then practiced under Calipari at Kentucky for the season. That means he scrimmaged everyday against Brandon Knight, Josh Harrellson, Terrence Jones, etc. Bismack scrimmaged against a bunch of no-names and Gustavo Ayon. Kanter is coached by Jerry Sloan protege Tyrone Corbin. Bismack was coached by senile Paul Silas and now Tankmaster Dunlap.

But you're right, they're both the same age.

[HornetJail]

Watching the Bulls game right now and Vlad Radmanovic just pump faked, drove to the rim and threw the hammer down.

My life is a lie.

[BigSlam]

Watching the Bulls game right now and Vlad Radmanovic just pump faked, drove to the rim and threw the hammer down.

My life is a lie.

I saw that too. The only thing funnier was the look on West's face and then Hibbert running away in shame.

[BigSlam]

That D League player that the Rockets just signed - Ohlbrecht - has maybe the worst tattoo I have ever seen.

[HornetJail]

We're lucky, not even the worst point differential of the night. Pistons went down by 39.

Only thing is they were up against the Spurs. We were up against the f*cking kings