Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[CobraCommander]

Yeah, I don't see any Lin haters in this thread. 99% of the people who post in this thread are Lin fans or Hornets fans who are rooting for Lin. The most vocal critics of Lin in this thread are some of his fans, not haters.

Wow ...someone logical discussing Lin. Most of the people that follow Lin are fans of Lins (for the obvious reason). A lot of Lins fans are not basketball fans or long time basketball fans at least. I would say I am a Lin fan (or at least interested in his story) and not a Hornets fan (everyone in Cobra Support the Wiz). Lin has proven that he is a pretty good bench player and a contributor but he won't be the reason that the Hornets Win or Lose a series. The stars on the team like KD and Westbrook or the System like the Spurs will win the series. Kemba, Jefferson and Batum are the stars of this team and everytime Lin goes over 14 pts is a bonus for the Hornets.

When people say Lin lacks confidence or needs more time : you make it seem like if he were just more confident he wouldn't have gone 1 for 8 last game. Or that if Lin was on the floor for 48 minutes he would have played better...like if he just had one more minute or put up 1 more shot that 1 for 8 would have been 2 for 9 and Lin would have saved the team. I guess you can make that argument about every player on every team every game through out all time and guess what...you might be right or...more than likely you would be wrong.

I love Lins story and his game...plus his YouTube and social media presence is AMAZING... but he isn't a star in the league. Lin just doesn't have the talent of the best players in the league. Lin is a 12/14 pts a game 4 assist NBA player and that is nothing to be ashamed of. Lin is one of the best players on the PLANET and Better THAN almost anyone on this board (I know there are NBA players that Lurk and post on some of the forums) but not one of the best players in the NBA and absolutely not he best player on the hornets. Lin works hard, Lin is talented, Lin is athletic, Lin is confident, Lin is honest about his place in the league, Lin is paid right for his production from the previous year on the lakers but he will probably get a raise this offseason because of his production this year and his ability to play the 1 or 2....which is GREAT. Lin knows the best and worse thing that ever happen to him was the 2/3 weeks of Linsanity (it wasn't even a month) because it set the bar for expectations for Lin so he can never reach those heights again, Lin doesn't have a particularly high basketball IQ (notice his assist to turnover ratio and his turnovers considering his usage over his career), Lin isnt a franchise cornerstone....which is OK...but the great thing is LIN IS SMART and Humble enough to know All of the things I stated. which is what I respect about him. Lin isn't arrogant or as delusional as some of his fans...which is why I pull for him...except for when he plays against the Wiz. I am not a Lin only fan but I am a fan of the good guys in the league ...which Lin appears to be.

One other thing I would like to tell you that is really fun to watch.... The Lin Fan thread that moves from Team to Team as he gets released or signs with a new team. The arguments and debates are the same. E.g. Lin needs more time, The coach doesn't like Lin because of this or that, the team would be better if Lin was a starter, the other players don't defer to Lin enough, Lin is amazing, Lin sucks...pretty much every thread is filled with LOF that are not objective. I have to say the Hornet threads Mods have done a good job managing this...which is refreshing.

[2k15]

If you don't think Spo cares about stopping Lin more than stopping Kemba you either didn't watch this series or you don't know bball. Lin has impacted this series way more than Kemba. You take out Lin, you take out someone who can score, who can run the offense, and can play decent defense. He can make them pay in so many ways.

LOL, please. Show me the proof. Show me what they did specifically to target Lin and not Kemba.

If you have comprehension difficulties and can't read my post quit quoting me. Where did I say they did not target Kemba?

Last time I ignored you, you looked up the answer yourself. I don't need to show you any proof. You can show the opposite if you want, but stop quoting me please.

If you make ridiculous claims (like you don't know basketball if you don't think Spo wants to stop Lin more than Kemba), you should be able to back it up.

I mean I wasn't wrong the last time. He usually is terrible on b2b games. He improved recently and I acknowledged that. I posted stats showing he was in fact bad on b2b games in prior seasons. There was another poster who also confirmed that.

[rallydurham]

As for your teams:

I already said Brooklyn makes sense.

Utah has terrible pg situation but with hayward and hood in the mix they have no use for lin they need a distributor and shooter. Lin is too ball dominant to co exist when they already have those guys.

The spurs make a little sense I'll grant that as parker can't shoot and he's thrived over the years. Mills can't get any penetration. Suffice to say i don't see it happening so not gonna entertain this too much. They aren't replacing parker coming off 67 wins and likely a title now that curry is injured.

Dallas it's hard to know what direction they are headed in but traditionally they've played without a ball dominant pg who cedes to dirk, but they've had barea type guys in their rotation. He absolutely could crack that rotation or maybe even operate as a starter if they get desperate. My guess is d will stays there as not many teams will want his services and dallas isn't gonna blow it up and rebuild in dirk final season. Lin could fit there as a rotation player, I don't think theyd bring him in as a starter but I'll cede that it is possible.

Ultimately I think he'd be a good rotation piece for a ton of teams but i wouldn't risk signing him to more than 2 yeats. Too High risk, low reward.
Rondo will stay in Sacramento as no one else wants him. But yes lin makes sense there as a backup image noted that already.

The bucks are starting Giannis at pg next year.

[ChokeFasncists]

I mean I realize lin fans are typically younger and more casual basketball fans but the fanaticism is borderline delusional.

I dunno how old you are and how much ball you have watched, unfortunately, you come off as a newbie in rational bball discourse. You have to realize that ad hominem, pigeonholing, group think and putting words into others' mouths are big no-nos. I'll give you a pass since you have newly joined.

it's truly delusional to think he's having some amaking series.

I have no idea what you mean by amaking but it's true that he has arguably been the best player on the Hornets for the three wins, and for him and his fans, that's pretty good.

I'm not going to sit here and lay out a 12 page diagram as to why jeremy lin career arc probably won't be the same as Steve Nash. He's the 2nd greatest shooter in nba history and a two time league MVP. Jeremy Lin is a solid backup combo guard.

I never said that Lin's career arc will be the same as Nash. What I said was that your firm belief that Lin has peaked is shaky and Lowry and Nash serve as examples.

If i made a similar comparison between the career of Jarrett jack and Steve Nash I'd be labeled as a nutjob.

That's how the Lin fanatics come off to people who are able to see the reality of the situation.

Einstein and Nostradamus are not perfectly correct in predicting the future. Therefore, a multitude of them are not perfect. Let alone a herd of fans who think they are Einsteins and Nostradamuses. It doesn't mean much. Fact is, we're not sure what the future is. JJ and Lin are totally different. I did not make comparison between Lin and Nash. Go read the post.

Honestly, I don't care at all if the Hornets resign Lin. I'm indifferent to it because he's just not an integral piece of anyones future.

Your previous post begs to differ. (fake?)

With something like 80% certainty he is what he is at this point. He's more likely to see his productivity fall off a cliff than explode. If his athleticism slips as he ages or sustains injuries he will have difficulty carving out meaningful minutes in a rotation.

If, a lot of ifs, who knows?

He simply doesn't have the ballahndling or shooting to fall back on. And he's not a plus defender.

Cliff begs to differ. He's a plus defender. His shooting will very likely get back to normal after the shooting form change. His ballhandling has improved a tons and there's no reason to believe that it won't improve more.

His future in the nba is relatively limited as he's just not quite good enough or young enough to warrant a big contract.

Well, this offseason or next will tell. Next game would be huge.

That doesn't mean he can't have the occasional big game or be a fan favorite wherever he ends up.

Occasional three straight big games in the playoffs, not too shabby.

Hes got limitless marketing and business potential after basketball. He should concentrate on wringing every ounce of talent out of him that he's got because it's clearly paid off in amassing a legion of global fans that Jarrett Jack will never have to fall back on after his playing career is over.

True. And we as fans hope that every ounce of his talent would be wrung by a favorable environment.

Did you just started paying attention to the Hornets? Lin's struggle with his shot this season is well-documented.

Big Bob Back?

As for your teams:

I already said Brooklyn makes sense.

Cool

Utah has terrible pg situation but with hayward and hood in the mix they have no use for lin they need a distributor and shooter. Lin is too ball dominant to co exist when they already have those guys.

Lin used to be too ball dominant, not anymore. Looks like you haven't followed Lin much recently.

The spurs make a little sense I'll grant that as parker can't shoot and he's thrived over the years. Mills can't get any penetration. Suffice to say i don't see it happening so not gonna entertain this too much. They aren't replacing parker coming off 67 wins and likely a title now that curry is injured.

If it's the Spurs, it'd be a gradual takeover rather than immediate. Play some backup PG/SG first.

Dallas it's hard to know what direction they are headed in but traditionally they've played without a ball dominant pg who cedes to dirk, but they've had barea type guys in their rotation. He absolutely could crack that rotation or maybe even operate as a starter if they get desperate. My guess is d will stays there as not many teams will want his services and dallas isn't gonna blow it up and rebuild in dirk final season. Lin could fit there as a rotation player, I don't think theyd bring him in as a starter but I'll cede that it is possible.

Cool

Ultimately I think he'd be a good rotation piece for a ton of teams but i wouldn't risk signing him to more than 2 yeats. Too High risk, low reward.

You think it's high risk, low reward, I think it's high risk, high reward. We'll see.

Rondo will stay in Sacramento as no one else wants him.

Um......that's not true. I'm sure teams want him, just maybe not pay him quite as much. Depending how the situation there is, it's not out of the question that he might leave.

The bucks are starting Giannis at pg next year.

I don't think so. I think he'll play point forward. Now that Lin has proven he can play off the ball, it makes even more sense.

[CobraCommander]

As for your teams:

I already said Brooklyn makes sense.

Utah has terrible pg situation but with hayward and hood in the mix they have no use for lin they need a distributor and shooter. Lin is too ball dominant to co exist when they already have those guys.

The spurs make a little sense I'll grant that as parker can't shoot and he's thrived over the years. Mills can't get any penetration. Suffice to say i don't see it happening so not gonna entertain this too much. They aren't replacing parker coming off 67 wins and likely a title now that curry is injured.

Dallas it's hard to know what direction they are headed in but traditionally they've played without a ball dominant pg who cedes to dirk, but they've had barea type guys in their rotation. He absolutely could crack that rotation or maybe even operate as a starter if they get desperate. My guess is d will stays there as not many teams will want his services and dallas isn't gonna blow it up and rebuild in dirk final season. Lin could fit there as a rotation player, I don't think theyd bring him in as a starter but I'll cede that it is possible.

Ultimately I think he'd be a good rotation piece for a ton of teams but i wouldn't risk signing him to more than 2 yeats. Too High risk, low reward.
Rondo will stay in Sacramento as no one else wants him. But yes lin makes sense there as a backup image noted that already.

The bucks are starting Giannis at pg next year.

The Wiz make sense next year as he can play the one and two for 3mil a year for us.

[bws94]

I mean I realize lin fans are typically younger and more casual basketball fans but the fanaticism is borderline delusional.

I like Lin. I'm a fan of his game and I want him to do well. But he's shooting 40% in the playoffs with a weak ast/to ratio and 0.5 steals. Im not here deriding him and saying he's been terrible but it's truly delusional to think he's having some amaking series.

I'm not going to sit here and lay out a 12 page diagram as to why jeremy lin career arc probably won't be the same as Steve Nash. He's the 2nd greatest shooter in nba history and a two time league MVP. Jeremy Lin is a solid backup combo guard.

If i made a similar comparison between the career of Jarrett jack and Steve Nash I'd be labeled as a nutjob.

That's how the Lin fanatics come off to people who are able to see the reality of the situation.

Honestly, I don't care at all if the Hornets resign Lin. I'm indifferent to it because he's just not an integral piece of anyones future. With something like 80% certainty he is what he is at this point. He's more likely to see his productivity fall off a cliff than explode. If his athleticism slips as he ages or sustains injuries he will have difficulty carving out meaningful minutes in a rotation. He simply doesn't have the ballahndling or shooting to fall back on. And he's not a plus defender.

His future in the nba is relatively limited as he's just not quite good enough or young enough to warrant a big contract.

That doesn't mean he can't have the occasional big game or be a fan favorite wherever he ends up.

Hes got limitless marketing and business potential after basketball. He should concentrate on wringing every ounce of talent out of him that he's got because it's clearly paid off in amassing a legion of global fans that Jarrett Jack will never have to fall back on after his playing career is over.

You make too many assumptions. I watched Clyde Frazier and Willis Reed play. Some people simply disagree with you and as another poster said. You made up your mind about him, nobody is going to change it, so be it. But take Lin out of games 3-6 and we don't win. He's a key guy to a win tomorrow and I hope he plays well.

[ChokeFasncists]

I am a Lin fan

I have to say the Hornet threads Mods have done a good job managing this...which is refreshing.

While it's true that the Hornet Mods have generally done a good job, it's not unique. Mr. E in the Rockets forum was totally good. The interregnum was sordid, so I guess you could make a case that it's refreshing after that quagmire.

The Wiz make sense next year as he can play for 3mil a year for us.

~lol~ Talkin' 'bout objectivity!

BTW, where were the objective LinTrolls during the three games winning streak?

[13th Man]

Yeah, I don't see any Lin haters in this thread. 99% of the people who post in this thread are Lin fans or Hornets fans who are rooting for Lin. The most vocal critics of Lin in this thread are some of his fans, not haters.

Wow ...someone logical discussing Lin. Most of the people that follow Lin are fans of Lins (for the obvious reason). A lot of Lins fans are not basketball fans or long time basketball fans at least. I would say I am a Lin fan (or at least interested in his story) and not a Hornets fan (everyone in Cobra Support the Wiz). Lin has proven that he is a pretty good bench player and a contributor but he won't be the reason that the Hornets Win or Lose a series. The stars on the team like KD and Westbrook or the System like the Spurs will win the series. Kemba, Jefferson and Batum are the stars of this team and everytime Lin goes over 14 pts is a bonus for the Hornets.

When people say Lin lacks confidence or needs more time : you make it seem like if he were just more confident he wouldn't have gone 1 for 8 last game. Or that if Lin was on the floor for 48 minutes he would have played better...like if he just had one more minute or put up 1 more shot that 1 for 8 would have been 2 for 9 and Lin would have saved the team. I guess you can make that argument about every player on every team every game through out all time and guess what...you might be right or...more than likely you would be wrong.

I love Lins story and his game...plus his YouTube and social media presence is AMAZING... but he isn't a star in the league. Lin just doesn't have the talent of the best players in the league. Lin is a 12/14 pts a game 4 assist NBA player and that is nothing to be ashamed of. Lin is one of the best players on the PLANET and Better THAN almost anyone on this board (I know there are NBA players that Lurk and post on some of the forums) but not one of the best players in the NBA and absolutely not he best player on the hornets. Lin works hard, Lin is talented, Lin is athletic, Lin is confident, Lin is honest about his place in the league, Lin is paid right for his production from the previous year on the lakers but he will probably get a raise this offseason because of his production this year and his ability to play the 1 or 2....which is GREAT. Lin knows the best and worse thing that ever happen to him was the 2/3 weeks of Linsanity (it wasn't even a month) because it set the bar for expectations for Lin so he can never reach those heights again, Lin doesn't have a particularly high basketball IQ (notice his assist to turnover ratio and his turnovers considering his usage over his career), Lin isnt a franchise cornerstone....which is OK...but the great thing is LIN IS SMART and Humble enough to know All of the things I stated. which is what I respect about him. Lin isn't arrogant or as delusional as some of his fans...which is why I pull for him...except for when he plays against the Wiz. I am not a Lin only fan but I am a fan of the good guys in the league ...which Lin appears to be.

One other thing I would like to tell you that is really fun to watch.... The Lin Fan thread that moves from Team to Team as he gets released or signs with a new team. The arguments and debates are the same. E.g. Lin needs more time, The coach doesn't like Lin because of this or that, the team would be better if Lin was a starter, the other players don't defer to Lin enough, Lin is amazing, Lin sucks...pretty much every thread is filled with LOF that are not objective. I have to say the Hornet threads Mods have done a good job managing this...which is refreshing.

Actually, Lin has been pretty important in this series thus far and will be a huge factor again tomorrow with Nic out. We saw last game that nobody else beside Kemba and Al were able to create their own shots and it was all Kemba down the stretch. Props to him for beasting but we can't depend on this again so Lin will be quite important on this injury depleted team.

You make some good points however not all of his fans are delusional and non-objective, most of the posters here are quite rational imo. As fatlever mentioned, many of his harshest critics are die-hard Lin fans such as myself.

For instance I am one of his fans that think that he still doesn't have the IT factor that Dwayne Wade was talking about when it comes to stepping up in big moments. This may seem like I'm criticizing him but in the grand scheme of things it's not. As you mentioned, being an NBA player in itself is damn freak!ng impressive, and on top of that the commentators added that even good veteran players have difficulty in bringing it when the stakes are really high. So saying that Lin doesn't have it YET is not bashing him, it's just stating what I feel is reality.

I believe that being able to be big time is not only an embedded character strength but a trait that can be gained through experience, and Lin has already demonstrated his clutchness through regular season games and non-closeout playoff games. Huge close-out and series deciding games are a different matter and far better players than Lin have choked in big game situations. So to be fair to Lin, I probably shouldn't be so harsh. I don't believe that stinking up the joint last game was just another off-game due to his inconsistency or because he wasn't getting enough minutes or shot attempts. Some of it was tactical strategy against him and some of it was Lin himself needing to be more confident and in control under these high pressure moments.

I've been watching basketball since the 80's (Bird vs. Magic), and I've also played up to the university level so I know how darn hard it is to reach each echelon of play. Lin is a great story and inspiration, he's not a loser by any stretch of the imagination. I'd like to see him be able to play with poise in these situations. Being able to perform at the highest stakes games in the best league in the world is the pinnacle of performance, I'm rooting for him to be able to do this.

[rallydurham]

The spurs have parker, mills, and anderson, McCallum, ginobili,diaw, etc as ballhandlers. They aren't interested unless he wants to be their video coordinator.

Lin is a solid backup combo guard that has almost certainly peaked in the nba. If he wants to hang onto an nba rotation more than another 2-3 years he's going to have to become an elite ballhandler or shooter. There is a nonzero chance of this happening, but it's highly unlikely.

Personally, Id rather see us retain Troy Daniels. He has more upside potential and he will probably cost a little less.

Lin was already given his opportunity in Houston and LA as a full-time starter and it didn't quite pan out. He didn't stink. He wasn't a bust signing. He just didn't break out as a full time starter, period.

For all the talk of his work on his shooting, it didn't pay off.

He had an incredible stretch as a nobody Asian from a small school that thrust him into the spotlight. And he's cashed in. And he's proven that he does have substance. He is a legitimate nba rotation player.

But i mean we have people saying he should be starting instead of kemba... or that we should let batum go to keep lin. Just wait until the offseason and when you see the contract he signs and the role he's given next year you'll get a idea of his true value in the nba.

And if anything he will paid more than he's worth based on basketball because he's clearly an asset in terms of likeability, marketing, etc.

There is nothing ad hominem about noting lins fans are often borderline delusional. It's kinda like james harden in reverse people dislike him, so it's popular to say he's not an elite player. People don't love lebron so they say he's not the greatest ever. People love kobe so they overrate him beyond belief..

A lot of basketball fans just aren't able to be rational evaluating players they like/dislike. It's nothing new

[13th Man]

The spurs have parker, mills, and anderson, McCallum, ginobili,diaw, etc as ballhandlers. They aren't interested unless he wants to be their video coordinator.

Lin is a solid backup combo guard that has almost certainly peaked in the nba. If he wants to hang onto an nba rotation more than another 2-3 years he's going to have to become an elite ballhandler or shooter. There is a nonzero chance of this happening, but it's highly unlikely.

Personally, Id rather see us retain Troy Daniels. He has more upside potential and he will probably cost a little less.

Lin was already given his opportunity in Houston and LA as a full-time starter and it didn't quite pan out. He didn't stink. He wasn't a bust signing. He just didn't break out as a full time starter, period.

For all the talk of his work on his shooting, it didn't pay off.

He had an incredible stretch as a nobody Asian from a small school that thrust him into the spotlight. And he's cashed in. And he's proven that he does have substance. He is a legitimate nba rotation player.

But i mean we have people saying he should be starting instead of kemba... or that we should let batum go to keep lin. Just wait until the offseason and when you see the contract he signs and the role he's given next year you'll get a idea of his true value in the nba.

And if anything he will paid more than he's worth based on basketball because he's clearly an asset in terms of likeability, marketing, etc.

There is nothing ad hominem about noting lins fans are often borderline delusional. It's kinda like james harden in reverse people dislike him, so it's popular to say he's not an elite player. People don't love lebron so they say he's not the greatest ever. People love kobe so they overrate him beyond belief..

A lot of basketball fans just aren't able to be rational evaluating players they like/dislike. It's nothing new

Fyi, we're not supposed to be talking about his Free Agency options on this forum so I'll only address his skills and potential in general.

I don't think he's peaked yet and Coach Clifford doesn't think so either as he believes that Lin will be a better player next year if/when he improves his shooting.

His situation under McHale and Byron Scott weren't the most ideal, look at where those coaches are now and where Lin is at now.

Not many people here have thought that he should start over Kemba this season, maybe that was the opinion at the beginning of the season? or from a different forum?

So you think he's being paid more than he's worth this year at 2M? I think the Houston contract was actually fair market value for him when you average out over the 3 years being 8M per.

[2k15]

I am a Lin fan

I have to say the Hornet threads Mods have done a good job managing this...which is refreshing.

While it's true that the Hornet Mods have generally done a good job, it's not unique. Mr. E in the Rockets forum was totally good. The interregnum was sordid, so I guess you could make a case that it's refreshing after that quagmire.

The Wiz make sense next year as he can play for 3mil a year for us.

~lol~ Talkin' 'bout objectivity!

BTW, where were the objective LinTrolls during the three games winning streak?

You talking about me? Lol so if I have a negative opinion about Lin, I am a troll?

[bws94]

The spurs have parker, mills, and anderson, McCallum, ginobili,diaw, etc as ballhandlers. They aren't interested unless he wants to be their video coordinator.

Lin is a solid backup combo guard that has almost certainly peaked in the nba. If he wants to hang onto an nba rotation more than another 2-3 years he's going to have to become an elite ballhandler or shooter. There is a nonzero chance of this happening, but it's highly unlikely.

Personally, Id rather see us retain Troy Daniels. He has more upside potential and he will probably cost a little less.

Lin was already given his opportunity in Houston and LA as a full-time starter and it didn't quite pan out. He didn't stink. He wasn't a bust signing. He just didn't break out as a full time starter, period.

For all the talk of his work on his shooting, it didn't pay off.

He had an incredible stretch as a nobody Asian from a small school that thrust him into the spotlight. And he's cashed in. And he's proven that he does have substance. He is a legitimate nba rotation player.

But i mean we have people saying he should be starting instead of kemba... or that we should let batum go to keep lin. Just wait until the offseason and when you see the contract he signs and the role he's given next year you'll get a idea of his true value in the nba.

And if anything he will paid more than he's worth based on basketball because he's clearly an asset in terms of likeability, marketing, etc.

There is nothing ad hominem about noting lins fans are often borderline delusional. It's kinda like james harden in reverse people dislike him, so it's popular to say he's not an elite player. People don't love lebron so they say he's not the greatest ever. People love kobe so they overrate him beyond belief..

A lot of basketball fans just aren't able to be rational evaluating players they like/dislike. It's nothing new

I think a fringe element here say Lin should start over Kemba. There is this thing about starting that some have in their heads that if Lin doesn't do, he's not playing to his potential and some find any player that plays in his position on his team as the enemy and holding Lin back. But, the idea you had that Lin and Al won't be major factors in the playoffs and it will be more the starters beating out other starters didn't pan out. Turns out Al and Lin have be huge in the playoffs, so maybe some of your analysis aren't as spot on as you may feel they are.

Lin has played much more like a 6th man on Houston and now Charlotte. He's someone other team's coach's worry about. Have you heard Spo's comments on Lin?

I don't think most rational fans here are saying Lin is a star or anything like, but to not even find him an impact player that can explode and be the factor that beat you in games, is to deny what has happened in big games this season for the Hornets, and in these very playoffs. I find you are overcompensating for the extreme of some fans, or just have a kind of dismissive attitude about Lin that isn't necessary. He's a big player on this team and as I said before, we need him tomorrow. And it'll be good for the Hornets and maybe for Lin if he decides for stability and goes another season at least with this team.

[ChokeFasncists]

I am a Lin fan

I have to say the Hornet threads Mods have done a good job managing this...which is refreshing.

While it's true that the Hornet Mods have generally done a good job, it's not unique. Mr. E in the Rockets forum was totally good. The interregnum was sordid, so I guess you could make a case that it's refreshing after that quagmire.

The Wiz make sense next year as he can play for 3mil a year for us.

~lol~ Talkin' 'bout objectivity!

BTW, where were the objective LinTrolls during the three games winning streak?

You talking about me? Lol so if I have a negative opinion about Lin, I am a troll?

Hell no man, I know you are a real Lin fan, that guy isn't.

[2k15]

Yeah, I don't see any Lin haters in this thread. 99% of the people who post in this thread are Lin fans or Hornets fans who are rooting for Lin. The most vocal critics of Lin in this thread are some of his fans, not haters.

Wow ...someone logical discussing Lin. Most of the people that follow Lin are fans of Lins (for the obvious reason). A lot of Lins fans are not basketball fans or long time basketball fans at least. I would say I am a Lin fan (or at least interested in his story) and not a Hornets fan (everyone in Cobra Support the Wiz). Lin has proven that he is a pretty good bench player and a contributor but he won't be the reason that the Hornets Win or Lose a series. The stars on the team like KD and Westbrook or the System like the Spurs will win the series. Kemba, Jefferson and Batum are the stars of this team and everytime Lin goes over 14 pts is a bonus for the Hornets.

When people say Lin lacks confidence or needs more time : you make it seem like if he were just more confident he wouldn't have gone 1 for 8 last game. Or that if Lin was on the floor for 48 minutes he would have played better...like if he just had one more minute or put up 1 more shot that 1 for 8 would have been 2 for 9 and Lin would have saved the team. I guess you can make that argument about every player on every team every game through out all time and guess what...you might be right or...more than likely you would be wrong.

I love Lins story and his game...plus his YouTube and social media presence is AMAZING... but he isn't a star in the league. Lin just doesn't have the talent of the best players in the league. Lin is a 12/14 pts a game 4 assist NBA player and that is nothing to be ashamed of. Lin is one of the best players on the PLANET and Better THAN almost anyone on this board (I know there are NBA players that Lurk and post on some of the forums) but not one of the best players in the NBA and absolutely not he best player on the hornets. Lin works hard, Lin is talented, Lin is athletic, Lin is confident, Lin is honest about his place in the league, Lin is paid right for his production from the previous year on the lakers but he will probably get a raise this offseason because of his production this year and his ability to play the 1 or 2....which is GREAT. Lin knows the best and worse thing that ever happen to him was the 2/3 weeks of Linsanity (it wasn't even a month) because it set the bar for expectations for Lin so he can never reach those heights again, Lin doesn't have a particularly high basketball IQ (notice his assist to turnover ratio and his turnovers considering his usage over his career), Lin isnt a franchise cornerstone....which is OK...but the great thing is LIN IS SMART and Humble enough to know All of the things I stated. which is what I respect about him. Lin isn't arrogant or as delusional as some of his fans...which is why I pull for him...except for when he plays against the Wiz. I am not a Lin only fan but I am a fan of the good guys in the league ...which Lin appears to be.

One other thing I would like to tell you that is really fun to watch.... The Lin Fan thread that moves from Team to Team as he gets released or signs with a new team. The arguments and debates are the same. E.g. Lin needs more time, The coach doesn't like Lin because of this or that, the team would be better if Lin was a starter, the other players don't defer to Lin enough, Lin is amazing, Lin sucks...pretty much every thread is filled with LOF that are not objective. I have to say the Hornet threads Mods have done a good job managing this...which is refreshing.

Actually, Lin has been pretty important in this series thus far and will be a huge factor again tomorrow with Nic out. We saw last game that nobody else beside Kemba and Al were able to create their own shots and it was all Kemba down the stretch. Props to him for beasting but we can't depend on this again so Lin will be quite important on this injury depleted team.

You make some good points however not all of his fans are delusional and non-objective, most of the posters here are quite rational imo. As fatlever mentioned, many of his harshest critics are die-hard Lin fans such as myself.

For instance I am one of his fans that think that he still doesn't have the IT factor that Dwayne Wade was talking about when it comes to stepping up in big moments. This may seem like I'm criticizing him but in the grand scheme of things it's not. As you mentioned, being an NBA player in itself is damn freak!ng impressive, and on top of that the commentators added that even good veteran players have difficulty in bringing it when the stakes are really high. So saying that Lin doesn't have it YET is not bashing him, it's just stating what I feel is reality.

I believe that being able to be big time is not only an embedded character strength but a trait that can be gained through experience, and Lin has already demonstrated his clutchness through regular season games and non-closeout playoff games. Huge close-out and series deciding games are a different matter and far better players than Lin have choked in big game situations. So to be fair to Lin, I probably shouldn't be so harsh. I don't believe that stinking up the joint last game was just another off-game due to his inconsistency or because he wasn't getting enough minutes or shot attempts. Some of it was tactical strategy against him and some of it was Lin himself needing to be more confident and in control under these high pressure moments.

I've been watching basketball since the 80's (Bird vs. Magic), and I've also played up to the university level so I know how darn hard it is to reach each echelon of play. Lin is a great story and inspiration, he's not a loser by any stretch of the imagination. I'd like to see him be able to play with poise in these situations. Being able to perform at the highest stakes games in the best league in the world is the pinnacle of performance, I'm rooting for him to be able to do this.

Udonis Haslem has Lin's number. Of Lin's 3 charges in the last two games, I think UD drew two of them. They're getting smarter at playing the drive but we're just not reacting and dealing with it well.

[bws94]

Good point about Lin's drives. I hope he studied the tape and has counters tomorrow.

[ChokeFasncists]

The spurs have parker, mills, and anderson, McCallum, ginobili,diaw, etc as ballhandlers. They aren't interested unless he wants to be their video coordinator.

~lol~ Didn't I say long term? Ginobili won't be there for long, Mills is most suitable as scoring/energy off the bench. Parker has tons of mileage on him and needs someone that can spell him.

Lin is a solid backup combo guard that has almost certainly peaked in the nba.

Good that you have shaken your firm belief. It's still merely your opinion about his peak. I don't agree.

If he wants to hang onto an nba rotation more than another 2-3 years he's going to have to become an elite ballhandler or shooter. There is a nonzero chance of this happening, but it's highly unlikely.

That's not true. He has to be a reliable ballhandler, a shooter like he was capable at the beginning of last season and he'll be fine.

Personally, Id rather see us retain Troy Daniels. He has more upside potential and he will probably cost a little less.

He'll never be the facilitator and defender that Lin is. Lin could become a very good shooter tho. Well, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Lin was already given his opportunity in Houston and LA as a full-time starter and it didn't quite pan out. He didn't stink. He wasn't a bust signing. He just didn't break out as a full time starter, period.

Well, in Houston he was fine by himself, but a certain star would like to get some help on D and monopolize on O. Then in LA if they let Lin break out as a full time starter, they would have lost Russell, can't do that.

For all the talk of his work on his shooting, it didn't pay off.

Not quite, it improved a lot. I'm not sure you are aware of why he's changing his form?

He had an incredible stretch as a nobody Asian from a small school that thrust him into the spotlight. And he's cashed in. And he's proven that he does have substance. He is a legitimate nba rotation player.

Cool.

But i mean we have people saying he should be starting instead of kemba... or that we should let batum go to keep lin.

Well, I guess it's best you debate those ideas responding to post. OTOH, if he starts instead of Kemba it would not be cuz he's the better player. It'd be cuz of the nature of basketball, at least historically. Batum would cost a tons more, it isn't very obvious that the Hornets should sign him to a max contract.

Just wait until the offseason and when you see the contract he signs and the role he's given next year you'll get a idea of his true value in the nba.

You too.

And if anything he will paid more than he's worth based on basketball because he's clearly an asset in terms of likeability, marketing, etc.

Perhaps.

There is nothing ad hominem about noting lins fans are often borderline delusional. It's kinda like james harden in reverse people dislike him, so it's popular to say he's not an elite player. People don't love lebron so they say he's not the greatest ever. People love kobe so they overrate him beyond belief..

OK, since you believe that all Hornets fans are often borderline delusional when it comes to the Hornets etc. it's cool. Sometimes, that's true. But that's not what you said at the beginning.

A lot of basketball fans just aren't able to be rational evaluating players they like/dislike. It's nothing new

True, and you certainly didn't sound like you were able to rationally evaluate Lin. It's getting a bit better.

[CobraCommander]

I am a Lin fan

I have to say the Hornet threads Mods have done a good job managing this...which is refreshing.

While it's true that the Hornet Mods have generally done a good job, it's not unique. Mr. E in the Rockets forum was totally good. The interregnum was sordid, so I guess you could make a case that it's refreshing after that quagmire.

The Wiz make sense next year as he can play for 3mil a year for us.

~lol~ Talkin' 'bout objectivity!

Oh I am being objective- Lin is a decent point and a decent shooting guard. At 3 mil a year Lin could help us...if y'all don't want him

Plus if you haven't heard or been to the Wiz areana...it's in DCs Chinatown...(not like that matters)

[ChokeFasncists]

I am a Lin fan

I have to say the Hornet threads Mods have done a good job managing this...which is refreshing.

While it's true that the Hornet Mods have generally done a good job, it's not unique. Mr. E in the Rockets forum was totally good. The interregnum was sordid, so I guess you could make a case that it's refreshing after that quagmire.

The Wiz make sense next year as he can play for 3mil a year for us.

~lol~ Talkin' 'bout objectivity!

Oh I am being objective- Lin is a decent point and a decent shooting guard. At 3 mil a year Lin could help us...if y'all don't want him

Plus if you haven't heard or been to the Wiz areana...it's in DCs Chinatown...(not like that matters)

He's definitely getting more than 3 mil per, stop your wishful thinking, especially in public.

[CobraCommander]

While it's true that the Hornet Mods have generally done a good job, it's not unique. Mr. E in the Rockets forum was totally good. The interregnum was sordid, so I guess you could make a case that it's refreshing after that quagmire.


~lol~ Talkin' 'bout objectivity!

Oh I am being objective- Lin is a decent point and a decent shooting guard. At 3 mil a year Lin could help us...if y'all don't want him

Plus if you haven't heard or been to the Wiz areana...it's in DCs Chinatown...(not like that matters)

He's definitely getting more than 3 mil per, stop your wishful thinking, especially in public.

He didn't get it last year...we will see-

[PG13]

I am a Lin fan

I have to say the Hornet threads Mods have done a good job managing this...which is refreshing.

While it's true that the Hornet Mods have generally done a good job, it's not unique. Mr. E in the Rockets forum was totally good. The interregnum was sordid, so I guess you could make a case that it's refreshing after that quagmire.

The Wiz make sense next year as he can play for 3mil a year for us.

~lol~ Talkin' 'bout objectivity!

Oh I am being objective- Lin is a decent point and a decent shooting guard. At 3 mil a year Lin could help us...if y'all don't want him

Plus if you haven't heard or been to the Wiz areana...it's in DCs Chinatown...(not like that matters)

BTW, do the Wizards have any plan to build a new arena? I went to a game there last month. The seats in my section use old folding chairs and the seat numbers are marked on the floor with chalk.