2024 Draft Prospects

[Rich4114]

Would you guys take Lively or Clingan straight up?

That is a tough one. Lively was listed at duke as like 7'1'' and 230. Clingan is 280 so there is going to be a big difference in physicality there. Lively will probably never be great at carving out space and boxing out. He will probably be a lot more moblie.

Clingan is 7'2'' without shoes and has the standing reach of an even taller guy.

Both of them have god awful free throw percentage.

My gut feeling is Lively will always be sort of one dimensional. Clingan will probably be better if he stays healthy. For someone the size of Clingan, Edey or Wamba Wamba, I worry about a foot injury even if they have never had one before. I have serious doubts about Clingan staying heathy with history of a foot injury when he is young and skinny.

I'm honestly beginning to view Clingan and Edey as even prospects at this point. Clingan is slightly safer while the size of Edey is just so unique, it would be hard to pass up.

[Bassman]

Would you guys take Lively or Clingan straight up?

If Lively were in this draft, with only his college resume, still believe most would take Clingan ahead of him. I do think Lively’s athletic mobility is a plus and he’s proven to be a good rebounder as a rookie. Clingan is taller, bigger, maybe stronger, and should block shots at least as well as Derek. But Lively is looking really good and coming up big for them in the playoffs. Can Clingan have the same level of impact his first year? I think so. Which one will become the better player? Perhaps Lively by a smidgen.

[JMAC3]

Watching Clingan tape.. most of his scores are just "I am bigger than you" whether that is a drop step dunk, offensive putback or just turning over his left shoulder and banking in a right hand layup...

His overall footwork is bad, he doesn't really show an ability to step away from the basket despite him making some open gym shots the past few weeks.

Defensively he does block a lot of shots, but his footwork on defense looks clumsy when trying to position himself for the block. He mostly wins blocks by size and good timing up top, not so much with elite positioning, which could be a factor for him being a high foul guy in the league.

I think at the end of the day, I can get behind Sarr because he is mobile enough to play drop coverage, blitz pnr, switch onto guards. Whereas I see Clingan more as a pure drop center based on suspect athletic characteristics.

[Snidely FC]

Lively for me would rather have a mobile center

[JMAC3]

I think Lively and him are similar as they are dunker spot bigs who will protect the rim. Those guys are typically only as a good as their guards so yeah Lively is feasting playing with two of the best guards in the league. Same reason Gafford looks better than he did playing on a wizards team without a guard capable of manipulating a defense such as Luka.

I expect Clingan to be about as impactful as Mark Williams. If anything Mark has showcased more shooting touch on free throws and a few more shots outside of 10 feet. A healthy LaMelo can get Clingan passable on offense, but I don't think he has any offensive upside as a midpost, pick and pop or central playmaker like a Sengun type.

We took a similar player 15th in the draft and it's not like it felt like we got some steal in the moment.

[GoBobs]

Would you guys take Lively or Clingan straight up?

That is a tough one. Lively was listed at duke as like 7'1'' and 230. Clingan is 280 so there is going to be a big difference in physicality there. Lively will probably never be great at carving out space and boxing out. He will probably be a lot more moblie.

Clingan is 7'2'' without shoes and has the standing reach of an even taller guy.

Both of them have god awful free throw percentage.

My gut feeling is Lively will always be sort of one dimensional. Clingan will probably be better if he stays healthy. For someone the size of Clingan, Edey or Wamba Wamba, I worry about a foot injury even if they have never had one before. I have serious doubts about Clingan staying heathy with history of a foot injury when he is young and skinny.

I'm honestly beginning to view Clingan and Edey as even prospects at this point. Clingan is slightly safer while the size of Edey is just so unique, it would be hard to pass up.

They both have really good size. The list of guys with a standing reach of 9'7'' or better in the last 20 years of draft combine measurements is only like 8 people or so. One of those 8 is Gobert and another is Mark Williams.

When you get that tall balance becomes more dificult from a physics persepctive. Clingan is even more sort of tall and skinny because of his build. He has the same standing reach as Edey despite being shorter and only having a 7'6'' wingspan vs the 7'10'' wingspan of Edey.

So why is that? That extra 4 inches of wingspan is extra space between the shoulders. Edey has a broader frame and his leggs are like tree trunks where Clingan has skinny leggs. This allows Edey to use his lower center of gravity to establish post position and box out for rebounds. You can just look at pictures of them and see that Edey has broad shoulders and a more developed lower body while Clingan has narrow shoulders.

[JMAC3]

They both have really good size. The list of guys with a standing reach of 9'7'' or better in the last 20 years of draft combine measurements is only like 8 people or so. One of those 8 is Gobert and another is Mark Williams.

When you get that tall balance becomes more dificult from a physics persepctive. Clingan is even more sort of tall and skinny because of his build. He has the same standing reach as Edey despite being shorter and only having a 7'6'' wingspan vs the 7'10'' wingspan of Edey.

So why is that? That extra 4 inches of wingspan is extra space between the shoulders. Edey has a broader frame and his leggs are like tree trunks where Clingan has skinny leggs. This allows Edey to use his lower center of gravity to establish post position and box out for rebounds. You can just look at pictures of them and see that Edey has broad shoulders and a more developed lower body while Clingan has narrow shoulders.

Offensively I think Edey and Clingan are probably similar at the next level, both will win some buckets because of size on rebounds, alleys, and just easy catch and finishes inside. Neither are really dynamic offensively tho, A guy like Sengun, KAT, Embiid are on a different planet with footwork, dribbling, shooting and just offensive feel. If you get Valanciunas offense out of either of them it feels like you probably hit a top 5% outcome.

The difference to me between Clingan and Edey is just the rim protection. Edey 2.4 blocks per 36 is pretty poor for a guy his size, Bamba at 4.4, Thabeet at 4.8, Mark at 4.3, Clingan at 3.9... Wiseman 4.7, Jaxson Hayes 3.4, Chet 4.9, Zach Colins 3.7 , KAT 3.9, Embiid 4.0

Edey is much closer to this group of centers when it comes to blocks per36 in college. WCJ 2.7, Ayton 2.0 , Poeltl 1.8, WCS 2.4, Okafor 1.7. And Edey has pretty much blocked the same amount of shots per mins all 4 years in college.

[Rich4114]

They both have really good size. The list of guys with a standing reach of 9'7'' or better in the last 20 years of draft combine measurements is only like 8 people or so. One of those 8 is Gobert and another is Mark Williams.

When you get that tall balance becomes more dificult from a physics persepctive. Clingan is even more sort of tall and skinny because of his build. He has the same standing reach as Edey despite being shorter and only having a 7'6'' wingspan vs the 7'10'' wingspan of Edey.

So why is that? That extra 4 inches of wingspan is extra space between the shoulders. Edey has a broader frame and his leggs are like tree trunks where Clingan has skinny leggs. This allows Edey to use his lower center of gravity to establish post position and box out for rebounds. You can just look at pictures of them and see that Edey has broad shoulders and a more developed lower body while Clingan has narrow shoulders.

Offensively I think Edey and Clingan are probably similar at the next level, both will win some buckets because of size on rebounds, alleys, and just easy catch and finishes inside. Neither are really dynamic offensively tho, A guy like Sengun, KAT, Embiid are on a different planet with footwork, dribbling, shooting and just offensive feel. If you get Valanciunas offense out of either of them it feels like you probably hit a top 5% outcome.

The difference to me between Clingan and Edey is just the rim protection. Edey 2.4 blocks per 36 is pretty poor for a guy his size, Bamba at 4.4, Thabeet at 4.8, Mark at 4.3, Clingan at 3.9... Wiseman 4.7, Jaxson Hayes 3.4, Chet 4.9, Zach Colins 3.7 , KAT 3.9, Embiid 4.0

Edey is much closer to this group of centers when it comes to blocks per36 in college. WCJ 2.7, Ayton 2.0 , Poeltl 1.8, WCS 2.4, Okafor 1.7. And Edey has pretty much blocked the same amount of shots per mins all 4 years in college.

I trust you way more than I trust myself because I simply don't take the time to look into all of those stats and comparables. How are Clingan and Edey on both offensive and defensive positioning, awareness, etc. How about getting loose balls or winning 50/50's? Right now, we have Nick Richards who can do the put back dunks and finish alley oops but is a complete buffoon in every other facet of the game which is why he's such a negative on the court. We need another C who knows where to be and has awareness. It feels like both of them have that but I'm going on feel/sense not anything factual or tape study. We need that in the worst way.

[JMAC3]

They both have really good size. The list of guys with a standing reach of 9'7'' or better in the last 20 years of draft combine measurements is only like 8 people or so. One of those 8 is Gobert and another is Mark Williams.

When you get that tall balance becomes more dificult from a physics persepctive. Clingan is even more sort of tall and skinny because of his build. He has the same standing reach as Edey despite being shorter and only having a 7'6'' wingspan vs the 7'10'' wingspan of Edey.

So why is that? That extra 4 inches of wingspan is extra space between the shoulders. Edey has a broader frame and his leggs are like tree trunks where Clingan has skinny leggs. This allows Edey to use his lower center of gravity to establish post position and box out for rebounds. You can just look at pictures of them and see that Edey has broad shoulders and a more developed lower body while Clingan has narrow shoulders.

Offensively I think Edey and Clingan are probably similar at the next level, both will win some buckets because of size on rebounds, alleys, and just easy catch and finishes inside. Neither are really dynamic offensively tho, A guy like Sengun, KAT, Embiid are on a different planet with footwork, dribbling, shooting and just offensive feel. If you get Valanciunas offense out of either of them it feels like you probably hit a top 5% outcome.

The difference to me between Clingan and Edey is just the rim protection. Edey 2.4 blocks per 36 is pretty poor for a guy his size, Bamba at 4.4, Thabeet at 4.8, Mark at 4.3, Clingan at 3.9... Wiseman 4.7, Jaxson Hayes 3.4, Chet 4.9, Zach Colins 3.7 , KAT 3.9, Embiid 4.0

Edey is much closer to this group of centers when it comes to blocks per36 in college. WCJ 2.7, Ayton 2.0 , Poeltl 1.8, WCS 2.4, Okafor 1.7. And Edey has pretty much blocked the same amount of shots per mins all 4 years in college.

I trust you way more than I trust myself because I simply don't take the time to look into all of those stats and comparables. How are Clingan and Edey on both offensive and defensive positioning, awareness, etc. How about getting loose balls or winning 50/50's? Right now, we have Nick Richards who can do the put back dunks and finish alley oops but is a complete buffoon in every other facet of the game which is why he's such a negative on the court. We need another C who knows where to be and has awareness. It feels like both of them have that but I'm going on feel/sense not anything factual or tape study. We need that in the worst way.

I think Edey and Clingan are both superior players to Richards, Richards was the 42nd pick and makes 5 million per year. Nothing about that screams he is some great player, but to me it is more about how much does a backup center really matter?

The Celtics are using Luke Kornet as their backup in playoffs, Knicks used Achiuwa, Pacers are using Isiah Jackson, Nuggets legit played AG at center when Jokic rested, 76ers Paul Reed, OKC used Jaylin Williams...

so while yes Mavs are using 2 centers, majority of teams are not investing very large into having 2 guys. Mark only makes 4 million per year, I would be more than okay finding a decent backup in the 10-15 range like Goga, Jval etc and flipping Richards. To me spending two lottery picks is massive overkill.

[EmpireFalls]

Healthy Mark Williams > Edey, Clingan, and Lively, easily.

[JMAC3]

Healthy Mark Williams > Edey, Clingan, and Lively, easily.

They are all so marginally grouped together... I don't think anyone of them is a future allstar. Offensively they all should be used roughly the same way.

[GoBobs]

Healthy Mark Williams > Edey, Clingan, and Lively, easily.

They are all so marginally grouped together... I don't think anyone of them is a future allstar. Offensively they all should be used roughly the same way.

Lively and Clingan will often have a size advantge but will seldom have a strenght advantage. Edey will have a size and strength advantage almost every night.

Mark could also have a size and strenght advantage. I don't know if he wants to play a physical game every night. Edey is willing to battle every game in terms of physical play. A combo of Edey and Grant Williams would give us the most physical front court in the league.

[Chapelchilla]

Healthy Mark Williams > Edey, Clingan, and Lively, easily.

They are all so marginally grouped together... I don't think anyone of them is a future allstar. Offensively they all should be used roughly the same way.

Lively and Clingan will often have a size advantge but will seldom have a strenght advantage. Edey will have a size and strength advantage almost every night.

Mark could also have a size and strenght advantage. I don't know if he wants to play a physical game every night. Edey is willing to battle every game in terms of physical play. A combo of Edey and Grant Williams would give us the most physical front court in the league.

It would be crazy to see a Hornets team that has above average toughness and grit down low for the first time since Zo was in the paint.

[amcoolio]

I'm perfectly fine with Edey or Clingan if Sarr and Risacher are off the board. There just isn't any separation between 3-14 for me, they are all the same potential of prospect. Topic being the wild card with health issues but even then I can't too excited about adding Goran Dragic to this team

We absolutely have to get more physical with LaMelo and Miller being more finesse players. 82 games of solid Mark Williams/Clingan play raises the floor of team dramatically

[JustBuzzin]

After reading the Mark Williams quote I'm more open to Clingan. Just not sure he will be available. I hear rumors he's a guaranteed top 3 pick.

[Chapelchilla]

Read on Twitter

pro day at CAA, empty gym but Reed can certainly shoot 3's. Pro range. Goes thru the 3 pt contest shooting drill at the end and I think he hit 21/25 by my count. I think I would prefer a center but sharp shooting is a useful skill.

[JMAC3]

Read on Twitter

pro day at CAA, empty gym but Reed can certainly shoot 3's. Pro range. Goes thru the 3 pt contest shooting drill at the end and I think he hit 21/25 by my count. I think I would prefer a center but sharp shooting is a useful skill.

If I had to bet 100 bucks whether he was the starting pg for Vermont Catamounts or a top 5 pick, I am putting my money down before you finish the sentence.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Read on Twitter

pro day at CAA, empty gym but Reed can certainly shoot 3's. Pro range. Goes thru the 3 pt contest shooting drill at the end and I think he hit 21/25 by my count. I think I would prefer a center but sharp shooting is a useful skill.

If I had to bet 100 bucks whether he was the starting pg for Vermont Catamounts or a top 5 pick, I am putting my money down before you finish the sentence.

I'm struggling to find relevance for this comment

[GoBobs]

Looking back at the 2013 draft is interesting because there were a bunch of centers taken.

Cody Zeller (3)
Alex Len (5)
Noel (6)
Steve Adams (12)
K Olynyk (13)
Lucas Nogueira (16)
Gorgui Dieng (21)
Mason Plumblee (22)
Rudy Gobert (27)
Jeff Withey (39)

So why was Gobert the only real star of this group. One thing that stads out is he has the best standing reach at 9'7''. Next best guy was Jeff Withey at 9'2.5''

The heaviest guy from the group I mentioned in 2013 was S. Adams who was 254. This shows that Edey and Clingan are both outliers for size and weight. Gobert was 237 lb at the time.

So Edey and Clingan have the same standing reach as Gobert - 9'7''. They both moved a lot better than Gobert in athletic drills, despite being way heavier.

Even Mark Williams weight of 242, looks small compared to the 282 lb Clingan or the 299 lb Edey. These are some big kids.

[Snidely FC]

just say No to drafting a Backup (pun intended) for Mark Williams with a Top 6 pick