#Spacing - Steve Clifford Thread

catch20two · Post #1881 » by **catch20two** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:26 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:
therebirth wrote:Did he blame the poor start on playing young players? I'm confused because I didn't any young players playing at all.

He did. I also felt like he was blaming the front office in code, "you have to know where you are to be a leader." He wasn't talking about himself there.

On the contrary, he is right about that if he was taking a shot at Cho.

Post #1882 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:36 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:
therebirth wrote:Did he blame the poor start on playing young players? I'm confused because I didn't any young players playing at all.

He did.

Don't recall him doing that at all. I would say he blamed himself the most for our poor start.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #1883 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:18 pm

OK re-listening to it he was specifically talking about the last 5 games of the year only.

Quotes from Cliff:

“Not that we gave away 5 games, but I think we did it for the right reasons. But you know when you throw … uh … and it’s not just playing younger guys. But if you know and it was done for a purpose. You know, when you throw one or two or three young guys out there at a time and they are playing together, it’s going to make it hard to play well. It was good to do. It was great for them. It was great for me to study to see what they have to work on so they can have good summers.”

DY_nasty · Post #1884 » by **DY_nasty** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:58 pm

still can't believe he said vonleh needs to stick to rebounding and cody should be shooting corner 3s

he has no idea how to adapt to players and is openly trying to force guys into his broken system

Post #1885 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:17 pm

DY_nasty wrote:still can't believe he said vonleh needs to stick to rebounding and cody should be shooting corner 3s

he has no idea how to adapt to players and is openly trying to force guys into his broken system

I mean, he didn't say either of those things that way. He and Cho both said that Vonleh could shot and create a bit off the dribble. Cliff said that Vonleh is already a really solid rebounder and that's the skill that's going to get him PT right now. I don't disagree at all.

He said Cody's shooting has developed to the point that he can add a corner three. It wasn't at all framed as a criticism for him not doing it. He (or Cho, can't remember which) said Cody shoots threes alongside Marvin and Vonleh in practice and has the range, and he's at the stage of his development where he should make it a part of his game. I don't disagree at all. Do you?

catch20two · Post #1886 » by **catch20two** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:26 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:
therebirth wrote:Did he blame the poor start on playing young players? I'm confused because I didn't any young players playing at all.

He did.

Don't recall him doing that at all. I would say he blamed himself the most for our poor start.

Poor start, poor middle, poor finish.

Post #1887 » by **yosemiteben** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:15 am

catch20two wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:He did.

Don't recall him doing that at all. I would say he blamed himself the most for our poor start.

Poor start, poor middle, poor finish.

Wouldn't say poor middle, more like slightly above average.

DY_nasty · Post #1888 » by **DY_nasty** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:19 am

yosemiteben wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:still can't believe he said vonleh needs to stick to rebounding and cody should be shooting corner 3s

he has no idea how to adapt to players and is openly trying to force guys into his broken system

I mean, he didn't say either of those things that way. He and Cho both said that Vonleh could shot and create a bit off the dribble. Cliff said that Vonleh is already a really solid rebounder and that's the skill that's going to get him PT right now. I don't disagree at all.

He said Cody's shooting has developed to the point that he can add a corner three. It wasn't at all framed as a criticism for him not doing it. He (or Cho, can't remember which) said Cody shoots threes alongside Marvin and Vonleh in practice and has the range, and he's at the stage of his development where he should make it a part of his game. I don't disagree at all. Do you?

The reason why I'm extremely frustrated with him saying stuff like that is because we've already seen the result of him trying to force a change in a player's game back in Cody's rookie season. Zeller never relied on a mid-range shot - but the coaching staff made him shoot it in spite of Cody's strengths, the team's success, and Cody's confidence. I don't mind the mid-rage shot at all and feel that its essential for any 4 in the NBA. My issue is that he forced it on a young guy to the point where their FG% was absolutely dreadful and their confidence didn't reappear until the next season. Now he wants one of the most athletic 7 footers in the league to shoot 3s? Why not put him in a position where he'd actually get to use some of that quickness down low? Oh that's right - we don't even use the baseline here in Charlotte. :lol:

Liver_Pooty · Post #1889 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:27 am

I think Clifford is setting us up for a future Zeller/Vonleh future honestly from his comments.

Braggins · Post #1890 » by **Braggins** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:45 am

Clifford: "We need to have a best player and it needs to be Al." :banghead:

Oh my, just fire him... I don't even know what else to say at this point. Fire him and/or trade Al. At least one of those things has to happen.

Eoghan · Post #1891 » by **Eoghan** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:48 am

Sachmo wrote:he looks like an old drunk

He looks like Jim Lahey, it makes sense now. He lets the liquor coach the offense.

LofJ · Post #1892 » by **LofJ** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:52 am

Braggins wrote::banghead: Clifford: "We need to have a best player and it needs to be Al."

Oh my, just fire him... I don't even know what else to say at this point. Fire him and/or trade Al. At least one of those things has to happen.

I had the exact same reaction when I heard that.

catch20two · Post #1893 » by **catch20two** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:04 am

Braggins wrote::banghead: Clifford: "We need to have a best player and it needs to be Al."

Oh my, just fire him... I don't even know what else to say at this point. Fire him and/or trade Al. At least one of those things has to happen.

He's kinda right but I think he's saying and thinking about it wrong. Cliff Dogg become too dependent on Fat Albus instead of creating a system where he's a cog in what we do. I don't know about Al being our best player but he could be our best scorer as a role. Either way none of this happens unless Al lose at least 25 pounds this summer and Clifford make a new scheme where there's a lot of motion movement similar to how the Spurs/Hawks run.

catch20two · Post #1894 » by **catch20two** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:29 am

I don't know which one of yall is Clifford or his lap dog but it was nice hearing him big up CDR for being a important part of the best stretch of offense he seen from this team at the 3/4th mark of the 2013-14 season.

Post #1895 » by **JDR720** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:22 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPN730/status/590247966839046145[/tweet]

BeesWax · Post #1896 » by **BeesWax** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:23 am

JDR720 wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPN730/status/590247966839046145[/tweet]

He was on WFNZ this morning too. Both interviews sounded the same.

StitchJones · Post #1897 » by **StitchJones** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:25 am

I think Clifford's philosophy on offense and player development is dated. The NBA is a ball movement and spacing league now, yet Clifford is training our young guys in the art of slow down basketball where that is not even where their strengths lie. Only one player has his strengths there and that's Al who is not even part of this teams long term future. The play style of this team should be based off it's young long term talent: MKG,Kemba, Zeller, Vonleh, Lance, PJ. This team should play like the Milwaukee Bucks, not the Knicks or the Grizzlies.

Post #1898 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:06 am

StitchJones wrote:I think Clifford's philosophy on offense and player development is dated. The NBA is a ball movement and spacing league now, yet Clifford is training our young guys in the art of slow down basketball where that is not even where their strengths lie.

Our pace was right around league average this year. Pretty much every time we hear Cliff talk he mentions spacing as an issue. I hear you and maybe you're right, but he seems very aware that we need better spacing every time I hear him talk.

BeesWax · Post #1899 » by **BeesWax** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:20 am

yosemiteben wrote:
StitchJones wrote:I think Clifford's philosophy on offense and player development is dated. The NBA is a ball movement and spacing league now, yet Clifford is training our young guys in the art of slow down basketball where that is not even where their strengths lie.

Our pace was right around league average this year. Pretty much every time we hear Cliff talk he mentions spacing as an issue. I hear you and maybe you're right, but he seems very aware that we need better spacing every time I hear him talk.

Yet we get him guys who can shoot and he makes them worse. We need to pick up our pace of play not in possessions but in movement of the ball. We do not need to shoot earlier but standing around staring at Al, Kemba or Lance with the ball is a terrible game plan yet we use it over and over again.

Braggins · Post #1900 » by **Braggins** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:41 am

Another year under Cliff could be disastrous for the franchise imo. The more time we spend letting Cliff teach our young guys to play bad basketball the longer it will take to undo it.