Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

[fatlever]

@ hood30 - no need to call other posters names.

[hood30]

@ hood30 - no need to call other posters names.

This other poster also called Lin fan crazies and zealots..There's no need to refer to Lin fan in such a manner neither.

I'm pretty much a balanced Lin fan but I understand there are many Lin fan who think of him in much higher esteem...I don't really take their opinion that seriously when some of them claim Lin is an All-Star, but I also don't call them crazies and a bunches of idiots...and I'm pretty sure every players in the NBA have fan like that...Lin fan are no different than the other fan of other NBA player...

[bws94]

There are no above the rim finisher and slasher in this team. Maybe that's one reason why.

This is one reason. Another is that no one can hit an open shot except Batum or Kemba, and neither are really catch and pop shooters. Another is that no one really sets great picks, and even those that occasionally set picks (Hawes, Frank, Zeller) don't roll or pop well. Another is that the Hornets don't run. Another is that Lin's injury and shooting woes have limited spacing opportunities.

I think more Troy would help -- dude is shooting 48% from 3PT. Maybe a slashing MKG would help too.

The biggest reason why Lin's assist numbers is down because he barely gets to initiate the offense and the majority of his minutes has him playing off the ball alongside Kemba.

Kemba is playing massive amount of minutes and that diminishes Lin chance to run the team.

Ideally, Kemba would play about 31-32 minutes and Lin would get at least 17 minutes to be the main PG, but that's not even happening since Clifford has also been playing Roberts a lot to run the PG while Lin continues to play off the ball.

Why does Batum have so many assists? He plays off-ball and plays a lot with Kemba. Lin can definitely get assists not being the PG. And what do you say to people who point out how vulnerable Lin looks to heavy ball pressure as PG?

[fatlever]

@ hood30 - no need to call other posters names.

This other poster also called Lin fan crazies and zealots..There's no need to refer to Lin fan in such a manner neither.

I'm pretty much a balanced Lin fan but I understand there are many Lin fan who think of him in much higher esteem...I don't really take their opinion that seriously when some of them claim Lin is an All-Star, but I also don't call them crazies and a bunches of idiots...and I'm pretty sure every players in the NBA have fan like that...Lin fan are no different than the other fan of other NBA player...

There is a difference between someone saying a group of Lin fans on a different website are crazy and zealots and directly insulting a poster that is on this board. Lets keep that in perspective. Thanks.

[bws94]

yeah oladipo is a tough cover...except bryan roberts, (3rd string backup pg) was doing a fantastic job on him in the 4th when it mattered. Playing the D like lin should have.. Last month his shot has been awful. No player I know has crap shooting from a sprained ankle for so long. Usually, 1 to 2 weeks and the ankle is fully healed, even while playing through it. To me it just sounds like an excuse for his god awful performances, awful shooting percentages, awful 3 point percentages. Lin is NOT a superstar, if you need a good example of what a superstar is, look at kemba.

Lin and Lin only fans need to look in the mirror and accept the TRUTH. Lin is a bench player, a GOOD bench player, but still a bench player all the same. Its crazy, I got banned from both lin fan sites for telling it like it is. Guys on jlinportal called it "trolling" and banned me for pointing out that lin sucked last night. Bunch of crazy fanatics over there at jlinportal and jeremylin.net. Even though lin obviously sucked last night, there is so many delusional posts, giving so many excuses, blaming other players and the coach. Absolutely disgusting, and I would stop going there if it wasn't so entertaining. Its a damn cult, and anybody who is even suspected of saying anything that is opposite their "beliefs" is put on the blacklist and banned. If lin retired after this season, it might be for the best, his ridiculous fans are just ruining him.

Not a whole lot of folks here saying he is a superstar. Try looking at the stats for the hornets players. You say his percentages sucks. Well guess the whole team sucks. Kemba isn't close to a superstar so don't go down that road. Lin fans are no better or worse than any other fanatic fan of players. You went to a Lin site. What do you expect. Remember people are free to believe what they believe. Let me introduce you to politics..... like you admitted you go there for entertainment then come here and expect us to agree with you.... just continue with the discussions here and leave other sites out of this thread.

And I guess the toe is a worse injury than an ankle. Small sample size but your bench player is averaging 18 ppg mostly playing out of position in 8 starts.

You said everything I wanted to say here...What do you expect from a "Lin-cintrict" fan site?...I'm sure if there was kemba fan site, they'd feel the same way about him.

All you have to do is to simply stay away from Lin's fan site..Those sites are only for Lin true fan..Don't be coming here complaining about Lin fan on his site. [EDIT - mods]

As for Lin, I agree he's not a star player, but I also don't think he's a bench player neither...Lin could start for at the very least, half of the team in the NBA right now...He's clearly better than guys like Calderon, Ish Smith, Beverly, Elfrid Payton, Carter-Williams, Trey Burke.

Some of these guys on that list are much younger with better potential, but as for statistics, Lin has better or equal stats to all of them.

Also, as a starter for the Hornets, Lin is averaging 18PPG on 47FG% and .40 3point%...Those are great numbers that I wasn't even aware of until yesterday.

So, Lin is much more than a decent bench player...That would be an insult to call him a good bench player...He's a starter but not an all-star.

If he starts, he could easily average 14PPG and 6-7 assist..That'd be a given..If you let him shoot more and let him run PnR, he could do much better as for points...In Houston, as a starter, he got 13ppg and 6 which is very good considering he was the 4th option there and playing alongside ball-dominant Harden.

As for Lin's assist numbers being low as an Hornet player...that has to do with Clifford refusing to let him play PG...Even when Kemba takes a rest, Clifford brings in Roberts to play PG while Lin remains off the ball.....So don't expect his assist numbers to grow.

and as I've stated, he already prove he can bag assist while he was with the rockets and Knicks...even as a Lakers, he got 4.6 assist, but a lot of that had to do with him coming off the bench and Scott having Kobe and than Clarckson and Ronnie Price running the PG.

Starters start to full out a 5-man team. It's best to find the guys that work best as 5. Oladipo is a heck of a player coming off the bench. Starting is not that big a deal. Lin finishes games. That trumps starting.

He's more than a backup. I agree. I wouldn't even say he's an average player. His numbers are average but that doesn't tell the whole story as it is with some other players in the NBA. But the conspiracies and hyperbole needs to be toned down. It turns people off and makes them counter with the stop hyping Lin up, especially in our house, sentiments. And it can sometimes lead to mocking (though I understand it, don't agree with it).

If he plays to his capabilities, he's a weapon. I'll call him that. A weapon. And mostly, he's a very good weapon to have off the bench and finish most games. and I think he finishes because he plays good defense along with an ability to draw fouls and make plays and buckets here and there when Batum and Kemba are loaded on.

What some Lin fans need to quit with is thinking you are putting down a player saying he's a stronger player off the bench. It's not limiting him, it's not putting him down. It's seeing within a team context, how best to use Lin's capabilities to impact games. You can agree or not. You can want him to start or not. If he plays 28 minutes or more, doesn't matter one bit too me and I favor him off the bench. And I don't think he's a strong enough ball handler to give him all the PG minutes some other folks that watch his game think he should have.

[hood30]

This is one reason. Another is that no one can hit an open shot except Batum or Kemba, and neither are really catch and pop shooters. Another is that no one really sets great picks, and even those that occasionally set picks (Hawes, Frank, Zeller) don't roll or pop well. Another is that the Hornets don't run. Another is that Lin's injury and shooting woes have limited spacing opportunities.

I think more Troy would help -- dude is shooting 48% from 3PT. Maybe a slashing MKG would help too.

The biggest reason why Lin's assist numbers is down because he barely gets to initiate the offense and the majority of his minutes has him playing off the ball alongside Kemba.

Kemba is playing massive amount of minutes and that diminishes Lin chance to run the team.

Ideally, Kemba would play about 31-32 minutes and Lin would get at least 17 minutes to be the main PG, but that's not even happening since Clifford has also been playing Roberts a lot to run the PG while Lin continues to play off the ball.

Why does Batum have so many assists? He plays off-ball and plays a lot with Kemba. Lin can definitely get assists not being the PG. And what do you say to people who point out how vulnerable Lin looks to heavy ball pressure as PG?

The ball goes through Batum much more than Jeremy....While I don't have the numbers, but I suspect Batum's usage is much higher than Lin, so there's more opportunity for him to pick up assist.

Lin handle is a weakness, so we agree on that, but he's already proven he could get 6-to 8 assist in previous years playing for the Knicks and the Rockets..So while his average handles creates turn-overs, he does have good court vision and can dime at a good rate if given the opportunity...

If Kemba were to miss a few weeks, I would guaranty you that Lin would dish out more than 5 assist per game...I'm convinced of that

Also, how many time has Lin assisted at the rim for an easy basket just to see Hawes miss an easy lay-up or Cody miss a easy dunk?

Lin probably leads the league in easy (at the rim) assist that were missed by teammates (per 36) since many other PG around the league plays much more therefore will have more assist being missed...If such stats are kept, I'd love to see them..

I've watched every single Hornets games so far and I can't count the amount of time I've seen Cody and Hawes mess up Lin assist..Those aren't kicks out pass to wide open shooters..We're talking about easy lay-ups and dunks..Those are clear assist that was kept away from Lin be cause Cody and Hawes are terrible finishers at the rim.

If Hawes and Cody were better finishers at the rim, Lin assist numbers would probably be around 4...

I've also noticed that Lin is starting to ignore Hawes when he's open...there was a play during the Knicks game where Hawes was open after a PnR and Lin decided to shoot the floater instead of laying it to Hawes for an easy lay-up...So Lin is probably losing trust in some of the big men and that may mean he'll have less assist but more points.

My sense is Clifford wants Lin to look to score more instead of facilitate..this is why Roberts is given minutes...so Lin is really a shooting guard who is averaging 3 assist per game...That's very good assist numbers for a shooting guard if you consider Batum and Kemba high usage number.

[bws94]

I think Lin's assists are down because he doesn't have great chemistry with the bigs and not playing with Lamb as much. When Lamb/Daniels are catch and shoot, there are some assists. Lin's passes are very quick and from a short distance on drives and sometimes bigs just aren't ready for them. But he's something of a "hard" passer. Batum's passes are softer and from a greater distance, not off of drives so much. Some of it is due to Lin's timing on passes and that he isn't an elite passer. He makes nice passes for sure, sometimes skillful ones and he likes passing. But getting the angle and timing down on pocket passes, Lin hasn't quite fine-tuned that as well as he could. And on and on. You get assists and sometimes buckets due to other players and sometimes you don't get them due to other players. Takes teamwork.

[HornetJail]

My sense is Clifford wants Lin to look to score more instead of facilitate..this is why Roberts is given minutes...so Lin is really a shooting guard who is averaging 3 assist per game...That's very good assist numbers for a shooting guard if you consider Batum and Kemba high usage number.

Even if we were labeling Lin as a shooting guard, Harden, Manu, Batum, Wade, Turner, Ellis, Oladipo, McCollum, DeRozan, Miller, Middleton, Butler, Ian Clark, and Randy Foye average roughly as many or more assists per minute than Jeremy Lin. Lin is 47th in assists per minute on the list of 57 qualified point guards. When you share the ball with other ball-handlers, such as Batum and Kemba, you're not getting a high number of assists, plain and simple. Kemba isn't very high on this list either for the same reason.

The issue with Lin is that he is 40th among 44 qualified point guards in Assist to Turnover ratio. The other four players are shooting guards miscast as point guards, super young, or simply stuck on a dysfunctional team (LaVine, Mudiay, Russell, Knight). For the amount of times he has the ball in his hands, he manages to cough it up way too easily. That's the number one thing holding him back from being a legitimate starting caliber player, whether it's at PG or SG.

[fatlever]

The only assist stat I really care about is number of team assists vs team field goals made. Individual assist numbers are overrated.

[bws94]

The biggest reason why Lin's assist numbers is down because he barely gets to initiate the offense and the majority of his minutes has him playing off the ball alongside Kemba.

Kemba is playing massive amount of minutes and that diminishes Lin chance to run the team.

Ideally, Kemba would play about 31-32 minutes and Lin would get at least 17 minutes to be the main PG, but that's not even happening since Clifford has also been playing Roberts a lot to run the PG while Lin continues to play off the ball.

Why does Batum have so many assists? He plays off-ball and plays a lot with Kemba. Lin can definitely get assists not being the PG. And what do you say to people who point out how vulnerable Lin looks to heavy ball pressure as PG?

The ball goes through Batum much more than Jeremy....While I don't have the numbers, but I suspect Batum's usage is much higher than Lin, so there's more opportunity for him to pick up assist.

Also, how many time has Lin assisted at the rim for an easy basket just to see Hawes miss an easy lay-up or Cody miss a easy dunk?

Lin probably leads the league in easy (at the rim) assist that were missed by teammates (per 36) since many other PG around the league plays much more therefore will have more assist being missed...If such stats are kept, I'd love to see them..

I've watched every single Hornets games so far and I can't count the amount of time I've seen Cody and Hawes mess up Lin assist..Those aren't kicks out pass to wide open shooters..We're talking about easy lay-ups and dunks..Those are clear assist that was kept away from Lin be cause Cody and Hawes are terrible finishers at the rim.

If Hawes and Cody were better finsihers at the rim, Lin assist numbers would probably be around 4...

I've also noticed that Lin is starting to ignore Hawes when he's open...there was a play during the Knicks game where Hawes was open after a PnR and Lin decided to shoot the floater instead of laying it to Hawes for an easy lay-up...So Lin is probably losing trust in some of the big men and that may mean he'll have less assist but more points.

My sense is Clifford wants Lin to look to score more instead of facilitate..this is why Roberts is given minutes...so Lin is really a shooting guard who is averaging 3 assist per game...That's very good assist numbers for a shooting guard if you consider Batum and Kemba high usage number.

And why does it go through Batum more? Batum is tall, he can see over players. But when Lin is on the floor vs. Batum, he goes to the corner more. Batum seems to move off-ball more and it set up at the wing on high up beyond the arc center. Lin sometimes moves off-ball, that's when he plays his best games.

For sure Cody and Hawes and even Frank miss at the rim. Frank is better at creating, Cody so-so and Hawes horrible at it (but best at passing). In any case, once they do, no more assist for Lin. But Lin gets foul shots out of those passes. As I said in another post, Lin has quicker, harder passes than Batum and the bigs handle the softer, further distance passes better than Lin's quicker ones. There are bigs that are great with Lin's passes but that's a chemistry issue.

Roberts plays more when someone is injured. Otherwise, he doesn't play or plays in garbage time. Cliff wants Lin to be involved in what's needed I think. Sometimes it is scoring, sometimes drawing fouls, sometimes getting in the paint and breaking down the defenses and making good decisions (which isn't always the case with Lin. He'll get into the paint. On a good night he makes mostly good decisions. The opposite on a bad night). Cliff likes Lin's versatility.

I wouldn't call Lin a shooting guard. You fill in 2 on the lineup sheet. But Lin is just playing as a 6 foot 3 guard and mostly not initializing the play but often facilitating it at some point if he gets touches. Sometimes he's part of a "small" lineup.

[bws94]

The only assist stat I really care about is number of team assists vs team field goals made. Individual assist numbers are overrated.

I agree. Shared stats, assists, scoring and such is better for the team. The weaker team overly depend on one guy for scoring or assists and sometimes that happens with the Hornets (Kemba for scoring, Batum for assists).

That said, if you root for a guy you want to see him have great numbers. Regarding Lin, he's a team guy for the most part. So, if his team wins, great. If he helps contribute to it significantly, more great.

Kemba fans were happy with his scoring outbursts. But it would have not been great if they hadn't ended up in victories.

[hood30]

My sense is Clifford wants Lin to look to score more instead of facilitate..this is why Roberts is given minutes...so Lin is really a shooting guard who is averaging 3 assist per game...That's very good assist numbers for a shooting guard if you consider Batum and Kemba high usage number.

Even if we were labeling Lin as a shooting guard, Harden, Manu, Batum, Wade, Turner, Ellis, Oladipo, McCollum, DeRozan, Miller, Middleton, Butler, Ian Clark, and Randy Foye average roughly as many or more assists per minute than Jeremy Lin. Lin is 47th in assists per minute on the list of 57 qualified point guards. When you share the ball with other ball-handlers, such as Batum and Kemba, you're not getting a high number of assists, plain and simple. Kemba isn't very high on this list either for the same reason.

The issue with Lin is that he is 40th among 44 qualified point guards in Assist to Turnover ratio. The other four players are shooting guards miscast as point guards, super young, or simply stuck on a dysfunctional team (LaVine, Mudiay, Russell, Knight). For the amount of times he has the ball in his hands, he manages to cough it up way too easily. That's the number one thing holding him back from being a legitimate starting caliber player, whether it's at PG or SG.

I don't have the numbers, but I'm pretty sure the majority of these Shooting guard have much higher usage and minutes than Lin...Now, I'm not saying Lin is better than them, but you have to take into account usage and how much of the offense is being run through them..These guys also have better finishers which permits them to rack up more assists.

Guys like DeRoan, Butler and Harden should not even be mentioned when looking for a comparison....Lin will never get the ball as much as they get it.

I do feel that you could compare Kemba's assist numbers to guys like Thomas, Jackson, Carter-Williams, Ish Smith...All these guys have about the same usage but yet, manages more assist than Kemba.

If you want to criticize someone for not getting enough assist, it should be Kemba because he always has the ball in his hands.

Lin has already shown all of us he can facilitate on a 6-to 8 assist rate..He did it with the Knicks and with the Rockets..

Here in Charlotte, the bigs are simply not good at finishing..Lin will dish at the rim..

It's very important to specify "at the rim"...I've seen Kemba pick up assist, but many of them are on kick-outs or simply passing it to someone on the perimeter because he's forced to....Many of Lin assist-attempt are at the rim and these assist are easier to complete...It's just that Hawes and Cody can't finish them

[bws94]

My sense is Clifford wants Lin to look to score more instead of facilitate..this is why Roberts is given minutes...so Lin is really a shooting guard who is averaging 3 assist per game...That's very good assist numbers for a shooting guard if you consider Batum and Kemba high usage number.

Even if we were labeling Lin as a shooting guard, Harden, Manu, Batum, Wade, Turner, Ellis, Oladipo, McCollum, DeRozan, Miller, Middleton, Butler, Ian Clark, and Randy Foye average roughly as many or more assists per minute than Jeremy Lin. Lin is 47th in assists per minute on the list of 57 qualified point guards. When you share the ball with other ball-handlers, such as Batum and Kemba, you're not getting a high number of assists, plain and simple. Kemba isn't very high on this list either for the same reason.

The issue with Lin is that he is 40th among 44 qualified point guards in Assist to Turnover ratio. The other four players are shooting guards miscast as point guards, super young, or simply stuck on a dysfunctional team (LaVine, Mudiay, Russell, Knight). For the amount of times he has the ball in his hands, he manages to cough it up way too easily. That's the number one thing holding him back from being a legitimate starting caliber player, whether it's at PG or SG.

Bang. Great post.

Lin is really slowed down by defenses as a PG. Even if he doesn't cough it up does he get past traps or pass out of them quickly enough, or deal with the Iggy's or K Leonards or longer defenders put on him sometimes to get into the offense quickly? Lin in space is a nice PG. But maybe that's not really his position regardless of his height. Maybe he is a combo guard and Cliff has found ways to use him that makes him a great weapon/piece to have on your squad. All I see is in most systems, where the PG isn't protected by numerous screens, and gets the usual amount, Lin is best used alongside a more secure ball handler.

[HornetJail]

My sense is Clifford wants Lin to look to score more instead of facilitate..this is why Roberts is given minutes...so Lin is really a shooting guard who is averaging 3 assist per game...That's very good assist numbers for a shooting guard if you consider Batum and Kemba high usage number.

Even if we were labeling Lin as a shooting guard, Harden, Manu, Batum, Wade, Turner, Ellis, Oladipo, McCollum, DeRozan, Miller, Middleton, Butler, Ian Clark, and Randy Foye average roughly as many or more assists per minute than Jeremy Lin. Lin is 47th in assists per minute on the list of 57 qualified point guards. When you share the ball with other ball-handlers, such as Batum and Kemba, you're not getting a high number of assists, plain and simple. Kemba isn't very high on this list either for the same reason.

The issue with Lin is that he is 40th among 44 qualified point guards in Assist to Turnover ratio. The other four players are shooting guards miscast as point guards, super young, or simply stuck on a dysfunctional team (LaVine, Mudiay, Russell, Knight). For the amount of times he has the ball in his hands, he manages to cough it up way too easily. That's the number one thing holding him back from being a legitimate starting caliber player, whether it's at PG or SG.

I don't have the numbers, but I'm pretty sure the majority of these Shooting guard have much higher usage than Lin...Now, I'm not saying Lin is better than them, but you have to take into account usage and how much of the offense is being run through them.

Guys like DeRoan, Butler and Harden should not even be mentioned when looking for a comparison....Lin will never get the ball as much as they get it.

I do feel that you could compare Kemba's assist numbers to guys like Thomas, Jackson, Carter-Williams, Ish Smith...All these guys have about the same usage but yet, manages more assist than Kemba.

If you want to criticize someone for not getting enough assist, it should be Kemba because he always has the ball in his hands.

Lin has already shown all of us he can facilitate on a 6-to 8 assist rate..He did it with the Knicks and with the Rockets..

Here in Charlotte, the bigs are simply not good at finishing..Lin will dish at the rim..it's very important to specify "at the rim"...I've seen Kemba pick up assist, but many of them are on kick-outs or simply passing it to someone on the perimeter....Many of Lin assist are at the rim and these assist are easier to complete...It's just that Hawes and Cody can't finish them

You're not wrong. Hawes is one of the worst 7'1 finishers I've seen, and Cody doesn't go up strong enough quite often. Kemba's assist totals aren't as high as they could be for that reason, as well. I don't criticize either of them for not getting enough assists when Nic Batum actually leads the team with 5.4 assists per game. I criticize Lin's assist/turnover ratio, which is just terrible for a point guard- and not good for a guy who plays off the ball either. Someone like Batum allows both Kemba and Lin do what they do best- look for their own shot first and pass second.

[bws94]

In all fairness, MKG, Batum turns the ball over quite a lot too. I think Lin is much more pass-minded than Kemba and looks to create for others. However, he's best establishing his scoring and let that open up his facilitation. Kemba is improving at involving others but isn't a great passer and a much improved scorer (jump shot, finishing at rim--great hesitation dribble and explosion).

[qiantom]

I agree with the conclusions mostly, but I do not see the AST/TO ratio being useful to evaluate anyone other than the PG and primary ball handler, which Lin is not close to being this season.

[hood30]

Even if we were labeling Lin as a shooting guard, Harden, Manu, Batum, Wade, Turner, Ellis, Oladipo, McCollum, DeRozan, Miller, Middleton, Butler, Ian Clark, and Randy Foye average roughly as many or more assists per minute than Jeremy Lin. Lin is 47th in assists per minute on the list of 57 qualified point guards. When you share the ball with other ball-handlers, such as Batum and Kemba, you're not getting a high number of assists, plain and simple. Kemba isn't very high on this list either for the same reason.

The issue with Lin is that he is 40th among 44 qualified point guards in Assist to Turnover ratio. The other four players are shooting guards miscast as point guards, super young, or simply stuck on a dysfunctional team (LaVine, Mudiay, Russell, Knight). For the amount of times he has the ball in his hands, he manages to cough it up way too easily. That's the number one thing holding him back from being a legitimate starting caliber player, whether it's at PG or SG.

I don't have the numbers, but I'm pretty sure the majority of these Shooting guard have much higher usage than Lin...Now, I'm not saying Lin is better than them, but you have to take into account usage and how much of the offense is being run through them.

Guys like DeRoan, Butler and Harden should not even be mentioned when looking for a comparison....Lin will never get the ball as much as they get it.

I do feel that you could compare Kemba's assist numbers to guys like Thomas, Jackson, Carter-Williams, Ish Smith...All these guys have about the same usage but yet, manages more assist than Kemba.

If you want to criticize someone for not getting enough assist, it should be Kemba because he always has the ball in his hands.

Lin has already shown all of us he can facilitate on a 6-to 8 assist rate..He did it with the Knicks and with the Rockets..

Here in Charlotte, the bigs are simply not good at finishing..Lin will dish at the rim..it's very important to specify "at the rim"...I've seen Kemba pick up assist, but many of them are on kick-outs or simply passing it to someone on the perimeter....Many of Lin assist are at the rim and these assist are easier to complete...It's just that Hawes and Cody can't finish them

You're not wrong. Hawes is one of the worst 7'1 finishers I've seen, and Cody doesn't go up strong enough quite often. Kemba's assist totals aren't as high as they could be for that reason, as well. I don't criticize either of them for not getting enough assists when Nic Batum actually leads the team with 5.4 assists per game. I criticize Lin's assist/turnover ratio, which is just terrible for a point guard- and not good for a guy who plays off the ball either. Someone like Batum allows both Kemba and Lin do what they do best- look for their own shot first and pass second.

I specified "at the rim" assist-attempt for a reason and it's because those are the type of assist that we can say for certain should had been completed...You don't see Kemba dish out these type of assist that only requires a big man to dunk or lay it up for an easy 2 point.

Lin clearly has a larger % of these assist-attempt and they are being missed by Hawes and Cody way too often.

The reason we are even complaining about this is because Lin has lost so many of these potential assist while Kemba doesn't attempt these passes enough, so it wouldn't make that much of a difference in Kemba's assist total and avg....

I'm sure Kemba has lost some assist like Lin, but it is more blatant for Lin because this is how Lin facilitate..He gets deep and dish out to the open big-men for easy baskets.

When Kemba gets deep into the paint, he usually shoots or kicks out.

If Cody and Hawes were "simply" finishing Lin's "at the rim" assist, his ASSIST/TURNOVER RATIO would had been much better...So my claim is Lin Assist/Turnover would had been better with a few extra assist.

I agree that Lin turns the ball over too much and that is his weakness, but he would have made up for these turnovers by adding a few more assist if it wasnt for Cody and Hawes.

Lin averaged about 8-9 assist during Linsanity but was also averaging 4-5 turnovers which is high...Even on the bench in Houston, he was assisting at a very good rate...so this is a Hornets problem instead of a Lin problem.

Lin averaged 4.6 assist playing for the Lakers and that was while spending more than half of the year as a bench player..guys like Ronnie Price and Clarckson were ahead of him as for faciliate at PG for a large chunck of that year.

This year, he's doing less facilitation and playing with guys with very high usage+ inferior big men in Cody, Zeller, Kaminsky, Hawes...so it's understandable that his assist numbers will be low.

Lin assist numbers shouldn't be an issue..He's not a point guard on this team...I think his shooting from outside the arc is a bigger problem at this point since he's now a full time shooting guard...I'm still hoping he'll finish the year shooting about 34-35% from 3point which is good enough...He's at 31 now so he's not that far away.

[Vae Victus]

Yea, his 3pt shooting is just straight up awful. If he was hitting around 37-38% he'd be scoring 2 more points a game and the floor will open up more for him and the rest of the team. Teams arent covering him too hard on the outside shot since it's so woeful. They're just loading up on the drive (which is his preference) and passing lanes (again his preference) and it's really stifling Lin's game.

In regards to his TOs, just gotta realize, Lin is gonna cough the ball up alot and in stupid situations. That's just hte way he is, he's high risk high reward, the key is to take advantage of the rewards and let him do his thing so that the offense becomes more free wheeling and get EVERYONE rolling. There have been times when Lin was doing his thing and the team kept getting open shots because of his disruption. A better coach would rather just incorporate Lin's game rather than just turning him into a corner waiting SG with occasional bouts of ball swing movement seam attack. Lin CAN do that, he's done it before, but it's a waste of his talents since he's shown he CAN do more.

I'm honestly really annoyed that Lin isn't playing true PG 15-18 mins a game when Kemba is sitting. This is Kemba's team, i get that, he gets to play whatever he wants whenever he wants since he's the one with the big contract and is the face of the franchise. He's also made HUGE strides so he's done his part to keep his starting job and make the team center around him more (if this old Kemba then i really wonder how things would go). But when he's sitting let Lin play and live with his mistakes... i mean ****, isnt this what supposedly Cho/Cliff was talking about during their pitch meeting.

I mean if i were Lin, i'd be **** pissed at being forced to play PG to accomodate Roberts, instead of playing with Lamb/Daniels more to help space the floor for attacking the lane and kick outs.

[bigbob]

yeah oladipo is a tough cover...except bryan roberts, (3rd string backup pg) was doing a fantastic job on him in the 4th when it mattered. Playing the D like lin should have.. Last month his shot has been awful. No player I know has crap shooting from a sprained ankle for so long. Usually, 1 to 2 weeks and the ankle is fully healed, even while playing through it. To me it just sounds like an excuse for his god awful performances, awful shooting percentages, awful 3 point percentages. Lin is NOT a superstar, if you need a good example of what a superstar is, look at kemba.

Lin and Lin only fans need to look in the mirror and accept the TRUTH. Lin is a bench player, a GOOD bench player, but still a bench player all the same. Its crazy, I got banned from both lin fan sites for telling it like it is. Guys on jlinportal called it "trolling" and banned me for pointing out that lin sucked last night. Bunch of crazy fanatics over there at jlinportal and jeremylin.net. Even though lin obviously sucked last night, there is so many delusional posts, giving so many excuses, blaming other players and the coach. Absolutely disgusting, and I would stop going there if it wasn't so entertaining. Its a damn cult, and anybody who is even suspected of saying anything that is opposite their "beliefs" is put on the blacklist and banned. If lin retired after this season, it might be for the best, his ridiculous fans are just ruining him.

Not a whole lot of folks here saying he is a superstar. Try looking at the stats for the hornets players. You say his percentages sucks. Well guess the whole team sucks. Kemba isn't close to a superstar so don't go down that road. Lin fans are no better or worse than any other fanatic fan of players. You went to a Lin site. What do you expect. Remember people are free to believe what they believe. Let me introduce you to politics..... like you admitted you go there for entertainment then come here and expect us to agree with you.... just continue with the discussions here and leave other sites out of this thread.

And I guess the toe is a worse injury than an ankle. Small sample size but your bench player is averaging 18 ppg mostly playing out of position in 8 starts.

You said everything I wanted to say here...What do you expect from a "Lin-cintrict" fan site?...I'm sure if there was kemba fan site, they'd feel the same way about him.

All you have to do is to simply stay away from Lin's fan site..Those sites are only for Lin true fan..Don't be coming here complaining about Lin fan on his site. [EDIT - mods]

lol, this site isn't jlinportal.com or jeremylin.net. You can't just ask the mods to ban someone because you think someone said something bad about lin, or your own personal lingenda.

Im a big lin fan, been a fan ever since linsanity days, and ive been watching him ever since. Some people here would call me a crazy lin fan. But why is it when I go to jlinportal or jeremylin.net, I find that I AM THE NORMAL ONE AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS CRAZY??? I have always thought lin was an amazing player, had alot of potential and a starting material, but the guys on those fansites have some next level thoughts of grandeur. Its not healthy.

I made ONE joke about lin sucking, ie last game against orlando magic and I got automatically banned the next day lol. All I said was "no lin no win", after hornets won without lin. Yes it was a troll post (i thought it was funny) but too many guys over there are over sensitive. Nobody can take a joke about lin without feeling insulted and this forces all the normal, non crazy posters to have to walk on pins and needles. Nobody is allowed to admit when lin actually has a bad game, and just say yeah "tonight was a bad night, its ok it happens, he will bounce back next game". Why is that so hard for some people to admit? Then when somebody point that out, the crazies get overly sensitive and say "oh this is a lin fan site, if you're not a fan get lost" LOL.

There are all types of lin fans. In reality, there are ALOT more normal fans than crazy ones in the world. Unfortunately, these websites, ie jeremylin.net and jlinportal caters to the crazies. It has become a sad situation over there, and in my opinion the site will just one day turn to hell. You NEED normal people to speak rationally to the crazies and keep the balance. If everybody is crazy then all you have is a damn group mentality cult. The stupid mods on those sites don't see that and just ban the normal posters who once in a while like to crack some jokes about lin, even IF they're fans. So, I find your idea of "true lin fan" a complete joke. No such thing as real or fake, all fans are fans and a fan site should be for all fans.

[leeramundo]

I think Lin's assists are down because he doesn't have great chemistry with the bigs and not playing with Lamb as much. When Lamb/Daniels are catch and shoot, there are some assists. Lin's passes are very quick and from a short distance on drives and sometimes bigs just aren't ready for them. But he's something of a "hard" passer. Batum's passes are softer and from a greater distance, not off of drives so much. Some of it is due to Lin's timing on passes and that he isn't an elite passer. He makes nice passes for sure, sometimes skillful ones and he likes passing. But getting the angle and timing down on pocket passes, Lin hasn't quite fine-tuned that as well as he could. And on and on. You get assists and sometimes buckets due to other players and sometimes you don't get them due to other players. Takes teamwork.

This