Around the NBA 11

Post #1921 » by **fatlever** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:39 pm

SWedd523 wrote:Those of you who have LBJ higher, mind sharing your age?

the case for lebron over mj
- lebron didnt retire, twice, while in his prime
- if you believe pippen, lebron is a better teammate, keeps ball moving, better at elevating those around him, unselfish

HornetJail · Post #1922 » by **HornetJail** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:13 pm

I have a top 12, not sure which two to take off the last tier.

Tier 1: MJ, LeBron
Tier 2: Kareem
Tier 3: Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic
Tier 4: Hakeem, Kobe, Duncan, Curry

Post #1923 » by **Diop** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:21 am

Biyombo with 17 pts, 13 boards and 5 blocks to help Phoenix beat 6ers.

Love the random big games from Biz, what a pro.

Post #1924 » by **Diop** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:25 am

Lebron reminds me of a combination of Malone and Pippen, great player with awesome consistency and longevity, but just not the competitor or winner that MJ was.

And I hated Jordan at first, bloody cocky prick getting superstar calls used to really **** me, but he just kept winning when needed

SWedd523 · Post #1925 » by **SWedd523** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:19 pm

LeBron to me definitely has MJ beat on longevity. MJ spent three years in college and retired twice, missing probably 5 years or so of prime-ish production that (probably?) would have had him far above the rest of the pantheon in raw numbers.

He did have the best and perhaps second best 3/4 year peaks in NBA history, and was easily the most indomitable player to ever suit up.

They're close enough to where 1a and 1b might be a worthy rank but, for me, I look at it like this:

If your life was on the line in a 7 game series and you could pick one player to start your team with, I'm picking MJ 10 times out of 10.

Goodecharlotte · Post #1926 » by **Goodecharlotte** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:26 pm

MJ didn't need superstars to play next to, sorry LeBron but you had it in Miami then when you went back to Cleveland and now with the Lakers. MJ didn't need superstars to come and play with him

JMAC3 · Post #1927 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:44 pm

I have two views on the top 10.

First- classic view
Lebron, MJ, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Russell, Wilt, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq

but if you really think about it how is LeBron the only top 10 player, who's prime has been post 2010? The most talented the league has ever been right now. Shouldn't that make up the majority of the top 10 then? Curry, Durant, Giannis, Jokic and Embiid aren't already locks as top 20 players ever?

Bird, Magic, Wilt etc. were all great for their decades, but they are worse than the players today. They were better than the guys they played against in their decade, so they stood out but at the same time it was easier to win back then. If you had a top 3 player, you were pretty much going to make the finals nearly every year. That is why it is always the same Lakers/Celtics matchups for 20 years. Even the same in the 90's, if you had Jordan, you were pretty much guaranteed to make the finals.

In today's NBA, it is much more about the team around the star then just the star player. Hence why you have LeBron, Luka, Dame fighting to make the play in tournament.

How high can Steph Curry get? He has 4 rings, 2 Mvps, the best shooter in NBA history and did it in the most talented era to date. Why do we have to wait for him to be retired for 10 years before we start to show him his full respect?

1. LeBron
2. MJ
3. Kareem
4. Curry
5. Duncan
6. Kobe
7. Durant
8. Shaq
9. Bird
10. Magic

Braggins · Post #1928 » by **Braggins** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 12:49 pm

Are the people who were in favor of flattening the lottery odds going to be happy if the Mavs win the lottery and get Wemby?

amcoolio · Post #1929 » by **amcoolio** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 1:01 pm

I’m not even going to watch the lottery live, it’s probably the most nerve wracking lottery in the history of the franchise.

Post #1930 » by **JDR720** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 1:03 pm

I'm not watching it either. I'll nervously check a day or so after it's over. Which will result in either indifference, sadness and irritation or happiness.

Braggins · Post #1931 » by **Braggins** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 1:45 pm

They should have Eric Collins represent the team at the draft lottery.

SWedd523 · Post #1932 » by **SWedd523** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 2:10 pm

I still think the draft should be in simple win column order like the NFL.

Clearly the flattening hasn't prevented tanking in any meaningful way and people complain about teams being bad for so long, but then they never get any lottery "luck" and stay in purgatory.

Braggins · Post #1933 » by **Braggins** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 2:40 pm

Yeah, I thought the odds were as flat as I could tolerate (if you were going to have a lottery) back when the worst team had like a 25% chance at the #1 pick. Now the odds are way too flat imo and also stupid and convoluted.

A teams spot in the standings isn't even one of their most likely draft slots with the current odds. The Hornets are the 4th worst team and their most likely draft spots in order are 6/7/1/2/3/4/5/8. 4th worst team and picking 4th is their 6th most likely outcome and most likely outcome is the 6th or 7th pick...

Post #1934 » by **JDR720** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 2:44 pm

They reworked the lottery due to media pressure of "tanking". Where in reality, they actually just incentivized borderline teams like Dallas, Portland and Utah to tank.

Liver_Pooty · Post #1935 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 5:31 pm

Braggins wrote:They should have Eric Collins represent the team at the draft lottery.

This is an incredible idea.

Hornet Mania · Post #1936 » by **Hornet Mania** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 6:52 pm

The thought of Eric Collins crowing 'HUM-DIDDLY-DEE!' the moment the Hornets officially win the lotto puts a smile on my face.

Post #1937 » by **yosemiteben** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 10:29 pm

I don't think the lottery will be nerve wracking because everyone should assume their team isn't winning it. The worst team by record has more than an 85% chamce of missing the 1, no one should be spending any emotional energy attaching to landing the 1. Would be nice for it to happen, but doubt it will.

Liver_Pooty · Post #1938 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sun Apr 9, 2023 7:32 am

Someone please start an Eric Collins petition, something.

JMAC3 · Post #1939 » by **JMAC3** » Sun Apr 9, 2023 2:32 pm

You can say flattening the lottery system hasn't done anything, but if it were simply which team has the worst record at least two teams would be sub 10 wins in an attempt to get Wemby.

Dallas has a 3% chance at Wemby, if it happens it happens. Would everyone feel that much better if their odds were 1.7% instead?
We have nearly the same chances of getting #1 as Dallas does to jump into the top 4 spots combined. I am fine with the current setup.

Also, congrats on Portland and Indy for outtanking Orlando and pushing them further down the board.

SWedd523 · Post #1940 » by **SWedd523** » Sun Apr 9, 2023 5:03 pm

teams are tanking already, why does it matter if they have 5 wins vs 10?

All the lottery does is guarantee teams tank for multiple years when they don't get a good player.

Team tanks 1 year, gets Wemby, they instantly become more marketable, team doesn't tank anymore, more value spread around the league, cycle continues.

The NBA has a distinct hierarchy of Haves, Have nots, and Never Wills. Lottery system doesn't fix the parity issue, it exacerbates it