#Spacing - Steve Clifford Thread

Stun704 · Post #1981 » by **Stun704** » Sun May 31, 2015 9:12 pm

Only coach we've had that maximized talent was Mike Dunlap

driveandkick · Post #1982 » by **driveandkick** » Sun May 31, 2015 9:24 pm

Ehh I think some of you are too hard on Clifford. He somehow built one of the best defenses in the league his first year here with Al Jefferson logging a **** ton of minutes. I still really don't know how he did that. He was pretty bad at points last year but we had a ton of injuries. I expect to be back in the playoffs this year and I really think Clifford will get us there. I think this teams long-term plan with the talent they have right now is to build an elite defense, I think Clifford can do that but he still has a lot of learning to do. My biggest issues with Clifford are his God-awful rotations and play-calling in late game situations. P.J. would play like 20 minutes one night then ride the bench for three straight games. His rotations are so bad. And I swear our only late game play call is Kemba ISO. This time a year ago we all thought we had the next great coach on our hands. I'm not ready to quit on Clifford yet even though I give him like a D+ for this most recent season. If we don't get back in the playoffs this year he should lose his job.

tondi123 · Post #1983 » by **tondi123** » Sun May 31, 2015 10:43 pm

Seems like Clifford is way too slow to notice when something isn't working. He also plays crappy veterans waaayyy too much instead of giving young guys a chance. How many times to we need to have Gary Neal shoot us out of a game before we try another approach? Similarly, despite its occasional effectiveness, running his patented Kemba iso every time we are in a one possession game reeks of somebody being in over their head. It only took most of 3 seasons but he did seem to finally begin to grasp the concept of offensive/defensive substitions in appropriate situations but one has to wonder why such a simple concept wasn't part of his coaching repertoire from day one.

Having said all of that, he seems like a coach the players respect and I guess that counts for something, but if the same stuff is costing us games next season I'm confident it will be his last.

DY_nasty · Post #1984 » by **DY_nasty** » Mon Jun 1, 2015 1:59 am

driveandkick wrote:Ehh I think some of you are too hard on Clifford. He somehow built one of the best defenses in the league his first year here with Al Jefferson logging a **** ton of minutes. I still really don't know how he did that. He was pretty bad at points last year but we had a ton of injuries. I expect to be back in the playoffs this year and I really think Clifford will get us there. I think this teams long-term plan with the talent they have right now is to build an elite defense, I think Clifford can do that but he still has a lot of learning to do. My biggest issues with Clifford are his God-awful rotations and play-calling in late game situations. P.J. would play like 20 minutes one night then ride the bench for three straight games. His rotations are so bad. And I swear our only late game play call is Kemba ISO. This time a year ago we all thought we had the next great coach on our hands. I'm not ready to quit on Clifford yet even though I give him like a D+ for this most recent season. If we don't get back in the playoffs this year he should lose his job.

His defenses are average at best when MKG isn't playing :lol:

Clifford is a defensive genius but he has Maxiel getting significant minutes while Biyombo is nailed to the bench to the start the season :roll:

Cliff is teaching defense but Kemba had the worst defensive year of his entire career in 2014-2015

Cliff is thinking long-term when he lets Marvin Williams get cooked by Blake Griffin when our top 10 pick sits on the bench with binoculars to see the court better

penquin11 · Post #1985 » by **penquin11** » Mon Jun 1, 2015 2:35 pm

Kemba was the worst defensive starting PG in the league last year I believe, which is concerning because I dont remember him being so bad in the past....

Post #1986 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 1, 2015 2:45 pm

penquin11 wrote:Kemba was the worst defensive starting PG in the league last year I believe, which is concerning because I dont remember him being so bad in the past....

I have to assume that it was related to his injury issues. Whatever it was, he was WAY, WAY worse on defense. His DRPM among PGs was ranked 59th, whereas the season before it was ranked 10th. He was a net +3.3 on D per 100 possessions last season, whereas the season before he was -6.2.

LofJ · Post #1987 » by **LofJ** » Mon Jun 1, 2015 3:07 pm

Kemba never came across to me as a guy who could catch IgotPaidItis so I really hope it was just the injury and he can bounce back next year.

Al Kidd-Walker · Post #1988 » by **Al Kidd-Walker** » Tue Jun 2, 2015 9:09 pm

People need to stop crediting that defense to Clifford and start crediting it to MKG, because somehow Cliffords "defensive mind" disappears when MKG doesnt play

James Gatz · Post #1989 » by **James Gatz** » Tue Jun 2, 2015 9:23 pm

Al Kidd-Walker wrote:People need to stop crediting that defense to Clifford and start crediting it to MKG, because somehow Cliffords "defensive mind" disappears when MKG doesnt play

Or running schemes without your best defensive player don't work as well. Replace Curry with Ramon Sessions and the GSW offense wouldn't be nearly as good.

Eoghan · Post #1990 » by **Eoghan** » Tue Jun 2, 2015 9:28 pm

Schemes built around one guy aren't very good schemes. A good defensive coach should get defense out of the sum of his team's parts.

Post #1991 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Jun 2, 2015 9:48 pm

Al Kidd-Walker wrote:People need to stop crediting that defense to Clifford and start crediting it to MKG, because somehow Cliffords "defensive mind" disappears when MKG doesnt play

2012-13 Season - Charlotte is last in the NBA in defensive efficiency
2013-14 Season - Charlotte is 6th in the NBA in defensive efficiency

I don't think MKG's 24 MPG (plus the almost 20 games he missed) is enough to account for that change, especially considering the fact that he was around for the 2012-13 season, albeit as a rookie.

We also played Biz 14 MPG less in 2013-14 than in 2012-13, yet our defense dramatically improved despite giving all of that time to Al.

HornetJail · Post #1992 » by **HornetJail** » Tue Jun 2, 2015 10:20 pm

Al Kidd-Walker wrote:People need to stop crediting that defense to Clifford and start crediting it to MKG, because somehow Cliffords "defensive mind" disappears when MKG doesnt play

Or maybe Clifford's defensive schemes work well but you need one good defensive guy on the floor to make that happen. Crazy thought, I know.

MKG is an unbelievable defensive player and the main reason our defense is the way it is, but some credit does need to go to Clifford.

HornetJail · Post #1993 » by **HornetJail** » Tue Jun 2, 2015 10:22 pm

Stun704 wrote:Only coach we've had that maximized talent was Mike Dunlap

I really enjoyed the huge strides MKG and Biz made under him.

Hornet Mania · Post #1994 » by **Hornet Mania** » Tue Jun 2, 2015 10:46 pm

Cliff has a good handle on some basic principles that can make a big difference on defense. He always seems to emphasize basically never crashing the offensive glass in order to get back on defense and cut off easy break opportunities and the importance of not fouling.

I do believe it makes a difference, as simplistic and obvious as those principles may seem, but in the half court I haven't seen much to suggest our success there is anything but MKG being an incredible difference-maker who fills a ton of gaps and never stops busting his ass to pester the other team. So it's part Cliff-discipline, part MKG-hustle imo. When you remove the MKG part it goes to hell, but if Mike D'Antoni coached our team I doubt MKG is dragging us to a top-10 finish on the defensive end either.

Elden Payton · Post #1995 » by **Elden Payton** » Wed Jun 3, 2015 12:02 am

penquin11 wrote:Kemba was the worst defensive starting PG in the league last year I believe, which is concerning because I dont remember him being so bad in the past....

He was conserving energy to shoot 37 percent at the other end.

Visibly coasted on D all year.

Elden Payton · Post #1996 » by **Elden Payton** » Wed Jun 3, 2015 12:05 am

BizGilwalker wrote:
Al Kidd-Walker wrote:People need to stop crediting that defense to Clifford and start crediting it to MKG, because somehow Cliffords "defensive mind" disappears when MKG doesnt play

Or maybe Clifford's defensive schemes work well but you need one good defensive guy on the floor to make that happen. Crazy thought, I know.

MKG is an unbelievable defensive player and the main reason our defense is the way it is, but some credit does need to go to Clifford.

That one good defensive guy is one of the best defensive prospects the NBA has seen for the wing.

Clifford's system is not that good imo.

mrknowitall215 · Post #1997 » by **mrknowitall215** » Thu Jun 4, 2015 7:46 pm

I believe(d) there was a obvious disconnect between Clifford & Cho dating back to last offseason that I think I mentioned. If it wasn't me, then it probably was 'MasterIchiro' and I agreed that it appear that Clifford & Cho don't appear to be on the same terms and are subliminally posturing via predraft interviews and such

Braggins · Post #1998 » by **Braggins** » Thu Jun 4, 2015 10:13 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Al Kidd-Walker wrote:People need to stop crediting that defense to Clifford and start crediting it to MKG, because somehow Cliffords "defensive mind" disappears when MKG doesnt play

2012-13 Season - Charlotte is last in the NBA in defensive efficiency
2013-14 Season - Charlotte is 6th in the NBA in defensive efficiency

I don't think MKG's 24 MPG (plus the almost 20 games he missed) is enough to account for that change, especially considering the fact that he was around for the 2012-13 season, albeit as a rookie.

We also played Biz 14 MPG less in 2013-14 than in 2012-13, yet our defense dramatically improved despite giving all of that time to Al.

There were also significant roster changes between those two seasons and we stopped focusing on development and started trying to win.

catch20two · Post #1999 » by **catch20two** » Thu Jun 4, 2015 10:46 pm

Clifford is dumb annoying but he's a better coach than he's getting discredited for lately. He got good principles. I think we just need more good players that fit before we can fully say what is or isn't in just 2 seasons.

DY_nasty · Post #2000 » by **DY_nasty** » Fri Jun 5, 2015 12:09 am

I honestly think people only downplay Cliff's inability to coach because they don't want to go through the headache, drama, and anxiety revolving around finding someone else.

I literally can't think of 3 things he does well on offense and without MKG for the last part of the season, it was painfully obvious to see that he's simply stupid. Random JT playing time, Max with 5 fouls playing center, Kemba/Mo revolving door, never adjusting to a floppy set EVER, months of never showing up prepared...

Then on top of that, he just wants to misuse guys brought in to do specific things. Cody's an athletic 4/5 - "learn to shoot 3s", Biyombo is an outstanding rim protector - "you will literally never share the court with Al Jefferson, and max is better DNP", PJ is a shooter - "I don't care that JT was the NBA's first big domestic violence case after that nightmare PR for the NFL, and I don't care that Gary Neal is blind. NO you can't borrow Vonleh's jacket and you'll never see a consistent minute as long as you play here"

its just dumb

everything is dumb