1st rd pick general discussion #2 overall Pt 2 (New Poll)

[raleigh]

My hunch is the FO wants to trade back to #4 or #6 so they can take Drummond and have another pick. But this likely depends on how well he does Friday at the workout.

I agree, but would add that it's likely between Robinson and Drummond at this point. The Friday workout is probably a big deal...

Since all the second tier guys have legitimate question marks, that makes it all the more likely you take a PF or CR. You can't teach size, and, for everything else you can teach, you hired Dunlap.

The patience Cho has shown during his tenure (drafting Biyombo, hiring Dunlap, resisting a reactionary trade at the deadline) convinces me the organization is willing to wait on a guy like Drummond if they believe the upside is there.

Personally, I'd be excited by the drafting of Drummond, because it's a sign the organization is in this for a championship rather than a team like Atlanta, whose owners are happy just making the playoffs.

[BigSlam]

Kinda shocked at the low vote for Beal....i thought his hype train was full speed ahead

I think we have done this poll, or an incarnation of it, three times now and each time I have voted differently.

I am driving myself nuts!

[vorbis]

i can see reasoning for all options in the poll, really, and i would need to fully understand what kind of offense the bobcats run next season to determine who would be the best immediate fit.

but, i voted for the first time in this entire process, and voted for drummond. just too much potential to pass up. i think even at his floor he will be a useful player, and potentially someone you could move in a deal if you had to down the road. but i think he's going to end up significantly higher than his floor. if:

1) dunlap and grgurich practice him like i expect them to, and
2) the bobcats organization are really committing to instructional 1-on-1 practice sessions like bonnell said in his radio interview,

then given his commitment to getting better since the end of the CBB season, drummond's going to make significant progress, if a bit slow at first.

edit: also want to say that if i was the bobcats organization, and i just convinced myself of the above, then i would take drummond at #2 and not try to trade down. if i don't think drummond's potential makes him a clear choice there, then i better not count on him being there if i trade back.

[-Ian-]

I still voted for Drummond.

Now that we will have a "teacher" coach, it's more appealing to me to draft the Cookie Monster.

[ohara]

Voted Drummond for the first time. Until now, it has always been T-Rob. But I do very much need to hear that his workout Friday was strong. If he gets manhandled by T-Rob, it will likely cause me to change my vote back to T-Rob.

[captaincrunk]

How can barnes have more votes than beal? No one likes barnes. how many times did stun vote?

[Badd_Intentions]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/By- ... -Crop-3990

Interesting stats for the SF's adjusted points per 40 mins
Those against MKG can use this as ammunition. Harry is near the top to.

[fatlever]

honestly, i am OK with any of the 5. i truly trust cho. i voted for thor again, but i am not so excited by him that i will be disappointed with someone else. barnes probably makes me the most nervous of the 5, just because the situation reminds me so much of ammo.

robinson
+ rebounding, hustle, face up game, big man, character, not risky
? can he score over length, jumper, upside

mkg
+ leadership, defense, hustle, versatile, winner
? jumper, handles, can he handle losing

drummond
+ size, center, athletic, upside
? attitude, work ethic, shooting, laid back

beal
+ shooting, ball handling, character, create shots
? size, plays same pos as hendo,

barnes
+ shooting, size for position, character, athleticism
? create shots off dribble, ABS/40, handles

[captaincrunk]

I'll admit I'd rather have barnes at #6 than any player not on the poll at 7. But if I had to rank the poll, Barnes would be last.

[fatlever]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/By-the-Numbers-The-2012-Wing-Crop-3990

Interesting stats for the SF's adjusted points per 40 mins
Those against MKG can use this as ammunition. Harry is near the top to.

i am much more concerned about barnes' ability to do anything other than score - rebound, pass, steals, blocks. he did not fair so well in any of those areas and was near or dead last in assists and assists/turnovers, middle of pack in rebounds, steals and blocks.

and also not fantastic in overall PER (neither was MKG)

Terrence Ross, Jeremy Lamb, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, and Harrison Barnes find themselves in a clump in the back and just outside of the top-5. None of those four quite live up to the numbers posted by the likes of Kawhi Leonard, Alec Burks, and MarShoon Brooks last year, though all had solid seasons in their own right.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1yLzvjh5I
http://www.draftexpress.com

[Badd_Intentions]

Yea, I also have to wonder though if those things were even stressed to them. Basically, all UNC needed from Barnes was to score points. They had Zeller and Henson to board, and Marshall to distribute. I wonder if he was even coached up to do much but score and play defense. Kinda the same deal with MKG even though he had less overall development time than Barnes.

[fatlever]

I'll admit I'd rather have barnes at #6 than any player not on the poll at 7. But if I had to rank the poll, Barnes would be last.

i agree.

which probably means he is our guy at #2. i won't pull my hair out or anything, i just think its very risky. but he is probably the best fit of the 5 guys in terms of what our roster needs right now. we need a small forward with size who can shoot. barnes fits that description.

[fatlever]

Yea, I also have to wonder though if those things were even stressed to them. Basically, all UNC needed from Barnes was to score points. They had Zeller and Henson to board, and Marshall to distribute. I wonder if he was even coached up to do much but score and play defense. Kinda the same deal with MKG even though he had less overall development time than Barnes.

true. very possible. he obviously has the size and strength to rebound at a good rate for his position. but rebounding is about determination half the time. does he have that will to just go inside and get a rebound? and can he have an impact defensively? obviously defense is more than blocks and steals, but thats often an indicator of how active a player is defensively.

the passing is simply poor and not an area that will ever be a strength of his (which is why the mashburn comparisons are way off).

[captaincrunk]

I'll admit I'd rather have barnes at #6 than any player not on the poll at 7. But if I had to rank the poll, Barnes would be last.

i agree.

which probably means he is our guy at #2. i won't pull my hair out or anything, i just think its very risky. but he is probably the best fit of the 5 guys in terms of what our roster needs right now. we need a small forward with size who can shoot. barnes fits that description.

NO! I don't want him! Keep him away please!

[JMAC3]

I just watched some highlights of Bradley Beal, and I maybe wrong, but I don't see him creating his own shot, I don't see great explosion in his game (for the most part) and most importantly he is listed on different websites as being 6'3!!! I don't see the Ray Allen comparisons at all, to me this guy looks like Eric Gordon.
We already have Kemba barely at 6'0 playing the point, do you really want him to play alongside a 6'3-6'4ish SG that may struggle getting his own shots off? In his highlights you'll see alot of set, long range jumpers taken and the occasional floater, but check his quickness and explosiveness and determine if you think it seems good enough matched up against the elite SG's in the league. To me, he seems to be more of a shooter than a scorer.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPu1bFBUaQ&feature=related[/youtube]

How do you guys not see him creating his own shot????????????

Did you even watch this video? he does it time and time again. He gets to the rim a good bit in this video either by craftiness, finishing strong, or getting the and 1. Also, being able to shoot with a hand in your face, like he does so many times in this video, is called creating your own shot. Yeah, of course some of his shots are going to be off picks, but he is a shooting guard and that is bound to happen. I do not know what you guys want him to do? Do you want him to get in the lane every play like LeBron to justify the pick.

Do you guys even watch basketball to know what creating a shot is? or do you just see somebody on the board proclaim that he will never be good in the league because he cant create his own shot.

Who in this draft can create shots better then him?
Davis? NO
Drummond? NO
Barnes? NO
MKG? NO
Robinson? NO
Lillard? Him and Beal seem to both be able to create their own shot.

The only guys who may be slightly better are Rivers and Waiters, but to me Beal has better court vision then both of them to get shots for teammates as well.

Plus Beal is 6'4'' - 6'5'' with shoes on. That is same height as Wade, Allen, taller then EG. Not to mention he had a 39'' inch vertical and solid wingspan and standing reach.

[Badd_Intentions]

You also have to remember most of these guys are 18...it's not like they are even close to a finished product at all. They were just getting the feel for the college game, now they have to get the feel from the pro game before their true talent can shine. Not to mention the rules in college and how you can clog the paint it can be tough to get good penetration without true pg skills.

If you are really looking for the best at creating his own shot, we'd draft Dion Waiters.

[therebirth]

I remembered the 2001 draft when it was between tyson and kwame. Kwame dominated tyson twice in their one on one workouts. So they need to be very careful with those workouts. Thankfully we have cho's database.

[Badd_Intentions]

Looks like NO just traded Okafor and Ariza to Wash for Lewis and the 46th overall pick. Clearing cap room for something?

[captaincrunk]

Looks like NO just traded Okafor and Ariza to Wash for Lewis and the 46th overall pick. Clearing cap room for something?

wait what? washington already had Nene. They just got shafted hard, why would they do that?

[Badd_Intentions]

Ariza is going to play, now I don't see them taking MKG, they have to be thinking Beal or bust.