The Gordon Hayward Thread

[BeesWax]

Gordon vs Lance

Passing-Gordon
Shooting-Gordon
Defense-Lance
Rebounding-Lance
Mental-Gordon

and Gordon is a Cho guy

I would say Gordon is the better fit for this team especially if he plays SG and we keep MKG (which we better)

If we keep MKG, which we should, then the defense is a little less of a worry. Watching him get beat by the likes o Harden is not going to have to happen here as Harden will be defended by MKG. Not many teams have two really good wings right now so. Hayward would get to take the worst one when paired with MKG therefore hiding some of his weaknesses.

[Liver_Pooty]

I've been mentioning that we should pursue Hayward for months. He fits perfectly next to MKG and is a great compliment to Jefferson.

[doc.end]

I'm happy to offer him any contact I'd offer Lance. All the Phoenix and Cleveland max talk made me assume we weren't going to get involved. Not thrilled about a potential max from us.

I don't believe anybody has offered max money for him. Phoenix and Cleveland want LeBron, that is just media with inaccurate reports. Less than 10, or take a hike

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... aring.html

He's a RFA. He's not going to be available at $10M per.

there is always sign and trade

[doc.end]

One of the most common-used terms being thrown around this time of year is that of "max" contract, it is also one of the most ambiguous. Given our confirmed interest in Hayward I thought I'd try my hand at just what his "max" is. (NOTE: This is based on the projected $63.2 million cap, which is yet to be confirmed.)

2014-15: $14.8m
2015-16: $15.47m
2016-17: $16.13m
2017-18: $16.8m

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM Forums mobile app

It's 15.8

[yosemiteben]

I don't believe anybody has offered max money for him. Phoenix and Cleveland want LeBron, that is just media with inaccurate reports. Less than 10, or take a hike

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... aring.html

He's a RFA. He's not going to be available at $10M per.

there is always sign and trade

I don't think we're going to be able to offer something more attractive than Hayward on a $10M contract. If he leaves Utah, IMO it'll be because Hayward wants more than Utah is willing to pay. Then they would start considering a S&T.

[BeesWax]

I've been mentioning that we should pursue Hayward for months. He fits perfectly next to MKG and is a great compliment to Jefferson.

What are you willing to give up for him? Zeller, Henderson and a protected 1st?

[yosemiteben]

One of the most common-used terms being thrown around this time of year is that of "max" contract, it is also one of the most ambiguous. Given our confirmed interest in Hayward I thought I'd try my hand at just what his "max" is. (NOTE: This is based on the projected $63.2 million cap, which is yet to be confirmed.)

2014-15: $14.8m
2015-16: $15.47m
2016-17: $16.13m
2017-18: $16.8m

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM Forums mobile app

Very helpful, figured it'd be in the ballpark of $15M - $16M, but nice to get confirmation from someone who knows a little bit more what they are talking about

[Dancingpanda]

My concern with Hayward is his consistency. We need a reliable 3pt threat and hayward isn't exactly consistent. Im thinking we should spend money on scorers of the bench rather then potentially over pay Hayward or loose MKG in a trade.

[stinger14]

Gordon vs Lance

Passing-Gordon
Shooting-Gordon
Defense-Lance
Rebounding-Lance
Mental-Gordon

and Gordon is a Cho guy

I would say Gordon is the better fit for this team especially if he plays SG and we keep MKG (which we better)

Lol, Lance can dish the ball too. Looking at shooting numbers, Lance is better too. Lance has shown improvement, while Hayward has shot worse each year in the league, not a good trend. Henderson shot better than Hayward last year, and don't give me the team around him excuse. Henderson had a worse team than Utah around him 2 and 3 years ago, but still scored on par with Hayward while shooting better than him.

Passing-tied
Shooting-Lance
Defense-Lance
Rebound-Lance
Mental-Gordon

Gordon plays 2 positions SG and SF
Lance can play 3 positions SG, SF, and PG and it would be good having Kemba play off the ball in small stretches

[JDR720]

Gordon got more assists than Lance did even tho Lance basically played PG for Indy and had star player(s) around him so Gordon is the better passer and Gordon is a career 36% 3pt shooter(including 2 seasons of 40%+) and Lance is a career 32% shooter, Gordon is also way better at the FT line

On a side note, Gordon also had an above average PER on a crappy Utah team, Lance's was below average

Shooting and passing

Gordon > Lance

[amcoolio]

Lance is an elite defensive SG, and is also top 5 at his position in rebounding, passing, and efficency. Its a no brainer, really. Kemba/Lance/MKG/Vonleh is ridiculously strong defensively.

[Eoghan]

I think Lance is the better passer but the problem is that Lance doesn't pass unless he's guaranteed an assist. Score or dime is the only thing on Lance's mind, he's pretty much as anti-hockey assists as you can get.

[BeesWax]

I think Lance is the better passer but the problem is that Lance doesn't pass unless he's guaranteed an assist. Score or dime is the only thing on Lance's mind, he's pretty much as anti-hockey assists as you can get.

Which makes the fact that Hayward had a better assist to turnover ratio that much more impressive.

[amcoolio]

I think we have a better coaching staff than Indiana, and certainly a better one than Utah. Lance does ball hog but its something that can be fixed. As for Hayward, Utah had the worst non-Dunlap coaching ever last season so its hard to tell. But it would be really scary spending 13MM+ on a guy who could easily end up as Dunleavy Jr. after he gets that contract

[JDR720]

I think we have a better coaching staff than Indiana, and certainly a better one than Utah. Lance does ball hog but its something that can be fixed. As for Hayward, Utah had the worst non-Dunlap coaching ever last season so its hard to tell. But it would be really scary spending 13MM+ on a guy who could easily end up as Dunleavy Jr. after he gets that contract

So Gordon goes from 16/5/5 on a team with a horrible coaching staff to Dunleavy Jr. with a great coaching staff i cant see that happening ever

[Liver_Pooty]

I've been mentioning that we should pursue Hayward for months. He fits perfectly next to MKG and is a great compliment to Jefferson.

What are you willing to give up for him? Zeller, Henderson and a protected 1st?

Something like that yeah

[BeesWax]

I've been mentioning that we should pursue Hayward for months. He fits perfectly next to MKG and is a great compliment to Jefferson.

What are you willing to give up for him? Zeller, Henderson and a protected 1st?

Something like that yeah

Yeah me too. I hate it because I think Zellers value goes up with Hayward to run the pick and roll with him but got to give some to get some.

[stinger14]

Gordon got more assists than Lance did even tho Lance basically played PG for Indy and had star player(s) around him so Gordon is the better passer and Gordon is a career 36% 3pt shooter(including 2 seasons of 40%+) and Lance is a career 32% shooter, Gordon is also way better at the FT line

On a side note, Gordon also had an above average PER on a crappy Utah team, Lance's was below average

Shooting and passing

Gordon > Lance

Lance has gotten better with his shot, trending good
Hayward has shot worse every year he plays, trending bad

And if you want to compare career shooting.

Hayward career. 437% shooter (trending down)
Henderson career. 444% shooter

Hendo has played on worse teams than Utah was last year. Hendo also plays much better defense.

We bash Hendo at 6 million per , but want to pay Hayward 15 million a year. That is 2.5 Times what Hendo makes. What little Hayward gives on offense, Hendo makes up a lot of it on defense

[stinger14]

What are you willing to give up for him? Zeller, Henderson and a protected 1st?

Something like that yeah

Yeah me too. I hate it because I think Zellers value goes up with Hayward to run the pick and roll with him but got to give some to get some.

Which is why you don't give him up. Keep Zeller and sign Lance. Lance is better than Hayward, and we keep our young talent

[JDR720]

Gordon ORPM (Player's estimated on-court impact on team offensive performance, measured in points scored per 100 offensive possessions) is 2.17

Lance ORPM is .92

Gordon DRPM (same as ORPM but defense) -1.59

Lanes DRPM is .15


Basically, Gordon is way better on offense and Lance is way better on defense, we need offense go with Hayward