Grade the deadline

bravor · Post #21 » by **bravor** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 9:48 pm

Not to mention they have some expiring coming, and Batum's dead money off before entering the off season.

But you still need a wing replacement, with or without Bridges. You just cannot trust things will go allright if for some reasons he was cleared to play and was to agree on a nice deal for the Hornets.

Hard to guess how next FA will turn out. If the Hornets manages to use all their space on Bridges and PJ, i am off. Way less frustrating with my home team (and we are competitive at our level).
List of 2023 free agents at the sf position (Hart missing as he's among the sg's).

If i was in charge of anything for this team, i would prepare an offer for Herb Jones (and i would have a B plan, a C plan and even a D plan to land a two ways young wing, or a good wing not too old). NO has a logjam at the wing and they can't pay everyone. Keeping some capspace could be critical, esp. with a future high lottery pick and his contract.

Braggins · Post #22 » by **Braggins** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 9:55 pm

MPM wrote:
Braggins wrote:Couldn't they have just flipped McDaniels for Thybulle? I think I'd rather have Thybulle than an early 2nd and it was even reported that they were more interested in players than picks. Thybulle was picked in the 1st so I think hed be a restricted free agent. Sounds like they just didn't want to pay anyone so they could keep Rozier, which is pretty frustrating.

One of my biggies as well - seems that if the Sixers wanted McD, just give us back Matisse rather than forwarding him along to POR - and pay Matisse as a long-term wing stopper rather than attempting to re-up Oubre.

Resigning Oubre might literally be the dumbest thing imaginable that doesn't involve giving away picks, so maybe I should expect it, but I'm still leaning towards thinking they won't keep him. I'm guessing they are going to spend quite a bit on Miles and PJ and won't want to pay anyone else. With Rozier and Hayward still on the books they would be at least in the ballpark of approaching the tax line after extending those two. I'm not happy about keeping Rozier (would rather have Thybulle long term), but its a better reason to avoid paying someone than resigning Oubre is. If they give Oubre a big contract I just wouldn't even know what to say anymore.

JMAC3 · Post #23 » by **JMAC3** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 9:56 pm

I know nobody wants to hear this right now, like at all.

But here is the list of 2023 2nds moved at the deadline that I can find so far...
Hornets 2023 2nd to Hornets via Philly
Raptors 2023 2nd to Spurs via Poeltl trade
Celtics 2023 2nd to Thunder via Celts Muscala trade

The majority of 2nds dealt were in future years. You could make the argument the Hornets got the most valuable pick at the deadline outside of the 3 firsts dealt for Poeltl, Hart and DLo. Excluding the firsts that went for Stars in Kd and Kyrie deals.

MPM · Post #24 » by **MPM** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:01 pm

FWIW, I wasn't expecting the moon for Mason, but both the Sixers and Celts expressed a need for front court depth and the Kings specifically expressed interest in Mason. A '28 2nd seems a poor return based on Mason's production relative to say Mike Muscala (same age, worse production) who netted a couple of seconds from BOS (and a throw away player in JJ)

HornetJail · Post #25 » by **HornetJail** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:02 pm

Underwhelming but the moves themselves aren't bad. Would've loved more action and actual value coming back from any of Gordon/Terry/Plumlee/Oubre, but the Plumlee trade is fine, and the Jalen trade makes sense if he was bolting in FA.

Mitch gets a C- for not really doing much but not **** anything up either

MPM · Post #26 » by **MPM** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:02 pm

JMAC3 wrote:I know nobody wants to hear this right now, like at all.

But here is the list of 2023 2nds moved at the deadline that I can find so far...
Hornets 2023 2nd to Hornets via Philly
Raptors 2023 2nd to Spurs via Poeltl trade
Celtics 2023 2nd to Thunder via Celts Muscala trade

The majority of 2nds dealt were in future years. You could make the argument the Hornets got the most valuable pick at the deadline outside of the 3 firsts dealt for Poeltl, Hart and DLo. Excluding the firsts that went for Stars in Kd and Kyrie deals.

I do like getting our pick back for sure.

JMAC3 · Post #27 » by **JMAC3** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:03 pm

The guys I felt like we needed to trade today or else.
Plumlee
McDaniels
Oubre

trading 2 of 3 guys that were in a trade them or lose them spot we accomplished.

We could still trade Rozier, Hayward this summer and even PJ in a sign and trade if we can't come to an agreement.

JMAC3 · Post #28 » by **JMAC3** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:11 pm

I do believe we talked Terry trade, but you have to look at what happened.
1. Suns went in on KD, probably the best fit for Terry
2. Mavs got Kyrie, probably another top 3 fit
3. Guys that were moved that are hitting buyout market
- Westbrook
-John Wall
-Reggie Jackson
-Will Barton
-Pat Bev
-Terrence Ross

It will be much easier to move Terry in the off-season when teams without cap space are looking to upgrade.

JMAC3 · Post #29 » by **JMAC3** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:21 pm

Alright, I think I have somewhat thought about this enough.

McDaniels trade: B-, If we would have gotten Thybulle it would be B+. Getting our own pick back is nice though. I assume we will hear about a McDaniels extension he wouldn't sign in the coming weeks. If he wanted 12-15 million like some people are speculating I am glad to get the top 35 pick.

Plumlee trade: C-, to only get 1 2nd rounder 5 years from now is pretty bad. Only thing worse would of been keeping Plumlee. At least this opens minutes for Mark to start and get 30 per night. Also, at least we didn't take back salary for next year as part of the deal. Feels like best we could of done here is 2 2nds though.

Not trading Oubre: C, not sweating this one. He is hurt, most I think we would of gotten based on seeing other deals would of been a second or 2 and we might of have to take back salary. Him saying he wants to stay in Charlotte also makes me think maybe he signs cheaper than expected and we could maybe trade him down the road.

Not trade Rozier: C-, not great but based on circumstances I don't think we had a ton of options.
Not trading Hayward- Incomplete, no way that was happening
Not trading PJ- B, Happy to still have him around.

Overall grade given that not many firsts were moved at the deadline: I will say I give Mitch a C. He didn't blow me away, but he also didn't make any trade that hurts us long term in my opinion.

Hornet Mania · Post #30 » by **Hornet Mania** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:21 pm

Solid D. I don't think it's fair to give an F unless the team did absolutely nothing.

That said, very disappointing but not unexpected. Muscala was traded for the same haul as McD and Plumlee combined on paper. In practice our 2nd this year is the most valuable asset in that comparison so not truly equal, but still, hard to argue our front office squeezed good value from those trades.

I wasn't so torn up by not trading Terry. He would bring back the best return in theory but the team loves him and with reports claiming the front office was positioning itself for next year it was safe to assume they saw him as guy who could contribute to success in 2023-2024. We may disagree with their assessment, but it's clear they really like him.

Post #31 » by **fatlever** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:31 pm

solid C

we at least did something

i'm less bummed about losing mcd than most. ive cooled on him a bit. dont think he was doing much in terms of winning basketball. nice dev story.

the mason deal was fine. at very least we took the keys from cliff.

we will see more mark. nick, thor, bryce and kai - thats good for us. find out now if we can move on from thor/kai this summer.

didnt take on any dumb money

however... we left a lot of seemingly obvious moves on the table. and bouk is still here wasting space. we never seemingly win a trade on outset (and rarely proven wrong in hindsight)

Rays Pompadour · Post #32 » by **Rays Pompadour** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:33 pm

C+

Moved Mason, Jalen - both of whom were expiring. Frees up room for Mark. Got a top 35 pick (some intriguing second rounders in that range).

The market was not there for Rozier and Hayward. Neither moved the needle for Charlotte and aren't needle movers for others. Not surprised they didn't get moved. Hayward becomes more valuable as an expiring this summer for teams looking to minimize risk. He'll look healthy by season's end, too, so that's a good visual. Oubre is still injured. So...shrug.

Draft looks top 5 (Brandon Miller, Nick Smith), low first (Whitehead?) and the high second (Edey, Ware?). Not a bare cabinet. I think the Hornets find a vet for the Nuggets' pick.

Could Mitch have done better? Debatable. The market was not a fertile one, in my opinion. I'm happy for Plumlee in LA and very happy the Hornets didn't play around with other teams' trash contracts. The team didn't improve and that may be a good thing for this throw-away season.

Braggins · Post #33 » by **Braggins** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:40 pm

Not taking Thybulle is a huge punt the more I think about it. Hes not quite 26 years old and has recently made two all-defensive teams. Hes not the easiest player to incorporate, but he fits the roster. He was literally on the table and Mitch said "nahhh, find someone else to take him and give me an early 2nd round pick 8-)

"

edit:
seriously, this looks like a real team

- LaMelo/Martin/Miles/PJ/Mark
- Rozier/Thybulle/Hayward/Thor/Richards

Post #34 » by **fatlever** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:43 pm

converting bryce to full next?

Rays Pompadour · Post #35 » by **Rays Pompadour** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:49 pm

JMAC3 wrote:Alright, I think I have somewhat thought about this enough.

McDaniels trade: B-, If we would have gotten Thybulle it would be B+. Getting our own pick back is nice though. I assume we will hear about a McDaniels extension he wouldn't sign in the coming weeks. If he wanted 12-15 million like some people are speculating I am glad to get the top 35 pick.

Plumlee trade: C-, to only get 1 2nd rounder 5 years from now is pretty bad. Only thing worse would of been keeping Plumlee. At least this opens minutes for Mark to start and get 30 per night. Also, at least we didn't take back salary for next year as part of the deal. Feels like best we could of done here is 2 2nds though.

Not trading Oubre: C, not sweating this one. He is hurt, most I think we would of gotten based on seeing other deals would of been a second or 2 and we might of have to take back salary. Him saying he wants to stay in Charlotte also makes me think maybe he signs cheaper than expected and we could maybe trade him down the road.

Not trade Rozier: C-, not great but based on circumstances I don't think we had a ton of options.
Not trading Hayward- Incomplete, no way that was happening
Not trading PJ- B, Happy to still have him around.

Overall grade given that not many firsts were moved at the deadline: I will say I give Mitch a C. He didn't blow me away, but he also didn't make any trade that hurts us long term in my opinion.

A note from the ESPN paywall (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35623400/nba-trade-deadline-winners-losers-kd-creates-new-super-team-east-elite-celebrate on the lack of firsts as pat of the trade deadline:

"With so many first-round picks encumbered, increasingly lavish totals of second-round picks became the currency of the deadline."

Could be something to watch in the months ahead.

Post #36 » by **Diop** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 11:01 pm

2028 is clearly going to be a big offseason

Post #37 » by **Diop** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 11:04 pm

They clearly didn’t value thybulle.

Wings are covered with Rozier, oubre and Martin? And mcgowen I guess

Braggins · Post #38 » by **Braggins** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 11:10 pm

22nd worst defensive team last season and passed on Eason. 25th worst defense right now and passed on Thybulle. No excuses at this point.

Post #39 » by **Diop** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 11:13 pm

I really wanted thybulle he really impressed me in the Olympics. Great team guy

Chapelchilla · Post #40 » by **Chapelchilla** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 11:18 pm

Braggins wrote:22nd worst defensive team last season and passed on Eason. 25th worst defense right now and passed on Thybulle. No excuses at this point.

Cody Martin is signed for next couple of seasons to fill the defensive 2 guard/3 man spot and he shoots better then either of those guys. If he looks to be healthy next year (and hopefully they would know better then we do) we are probably better off with the 34th pick and some futures.