Fake Trade Thread #3

[Braggins]

We would have a hard time attracting a free agent like Westbrook or even Horford. And to add picks 16 + 19 + 21 to pick 3 + 32 + Devonte' + Washington + Bridges + Monk gives us a solid foundation of youth. Plus we have all our future picks and a GM good at scouting talent.

You honestly think Mitch and/or especially Coach B wants to add 5 rookies at the same time to the roster?

More so; You honestly think that’d be a good idea?


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[luciano-davidwesley]

I would say as of today probably 10% chance we trade for Westbrook.

I would entertain the idea of trading for Horford though, he would be a good big for PJ to learn from and also if we get LaMelo I like him as another pick and pop big.

Horford probably has negative trade value right now at 3/78 million moving forward.

Batum and 32 for Horford and 21 might not be bad.

Batum is an expiring contact and Horford is one of the worst in the league AND we give up draft capital. That's absolutely horrible for us.

[JMAC3]

One thing I have noticed is this board is way to low on Terry Rozier.

Dude is coming off a career season, shot over 40% from three on nearly 7 attempts a game.

Made the 21st most threes in the league (would of been higher if exclude threes made in bubble)

We always here about the 20/5/5 club. Terry was in 18/4/4 club.

[SWedd523]

We probably don't hear about the 18/4/4 club because it's not actually a thing

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

One thing I have noticed is this board is way to low on Terry Rozier.

100% true.

[dmutombo321]

One thing I have noticed is this board is way to low on Terry Rozier.

100% true.

Had one hell of a season and did so sharing time with devonte. I think he would be of great interest to a team like Orlando in the market for a good veteran starting PG. DJ looks to be on his way out and fultz isn't the long term answer for them

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[cornchip]

Westbrook had the 13th highest jersey sales playing for Houston. He has a huge cult following. That is the reason I don't think Houston is going to give up assets in a Westbrook trade. While I personally feel like he is declining and not a star, there's Owners out there with money in their eyes who will take a chance on a former MVP. If we trade for him, it's going to be something like Rozer, Batum, #32 for Westbrook.

Yeah looks like that would be the deal but man I would love to keep Rozier and pair him with Westbrook for stretches.

That would be a nice, gritty defensive minded backcourt that can also score.

[MasterIchiro]

The Hornets would only do the deal with caveats. To me, that means Hornets are asking the Rockets to attach at least one pick.

Westbrook is owed 133 M. His contract is negative value.

I'm sure the Rockets are asking for the Hornets to add value (pick 32 for example). They might even be demanding Bridges + Monk + 32. That's not happening. The only other team willing to take on RW money is the Knicks. And the Knicks also require caveats.

Rockets are playing like they will keep RW. They won't. They dealt Covington for 16 so they can attach 16 as a last resort. I doubt they're offering 16 right now and I suspect neither the Hornets nor Knicks should accept 16 alone to take on all that money. There needs to be at least one more pick in there.

[yosemiteben]

One thing I have noticed is this board is way to low on Terry Rozier.

100% true.

The reason I'm low on him is he doesn't fit in our rebuild and was a waste of cap space unless we move him.

We aren't trying to win games (in the sense of making the playoffs, not in the sense of not motivating our young guys to try to win), and we should be using cap space to accumulate assets. Signing Rozier to an almost $20M per year contract during a period when we are rebuilding just doesn't make sense, unless the goal was to build his value and then trade him.

If he continues the play he had last year and sticks around until the end of his contract, we should be exiting the rebuild and then we'll have to decide whether to sign him to a new deal. He'll be 30 and in line for the last big deal of his career, so can't imagine it'll be cheap.

I'm just annoyed at the poor planning and asset management that resulted in letting Kemba walk for no draft assets or prospects, then using cap space that could have been leveraged for more assets to sign Rozier.

[DY_nasty]

if we manage to get through this rebuild with a bit of cash left over, rozier is a guy that would continue to help

its not like he's hamstringing us in anyway

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Terry is 10 months older than Devonte' Graham and 6 months older than Thing 1 & 2. He's not too old to be in that core group.

Rozier is easily one of the 2 or 3 best players on the team, so his fit isn't about lack of skill.

Cap wise, even if the team had not traded for Terry they wouldn't have had cap space last year. This would have been the first year they could have space, and they'll have it with Terry, just like they would have had it without him.

I'll totally grant that the Kemba situation was a cluster. The Hornets could probably have done a lot better if they had traded Kemba early instead of the S&T they did. That's on the team and has no bearing on what Terry's value is both on the court and as a trade asset today.

[JMAC3]

Terry is 10 months older than Devonte' Graham and 6 months older than Thing 1 & 2. He's not too old to be in that core group.

Rozier is easily one of the 2 or 3 best players on the team, so his fit isn't about lack of skill.

Cap wise, even if the team had not traded for Terry they wouldn't have had cap space last year. This would have been the first year they could have space, and they'll have it with Terry, just like they would have had it without him.

I'll totally grant that the Kemba situation was a cluster. The Hornets could probably have done a lot better if they had traded Kemba early instead of the S&T they did. That's on the team and has no bearing on what Terry's value is both on the court and as a trade asset today.

Rozier is probably slightly overpaid, but honestly he is worth at minimum at least 13 million a year and we are paying 19 million. It is not like he is on some massive contract like Batum or Westbrook would be. I would love to keep Rozier longterm, but I think his best role is a super sub off the bench that can get you 20 on any given night. Especially while we are paying Bridges, PJ and Graham peanuts we can afford to pay Rozier.

This is what worries me about bringing in a Westbrook to our team because if you can't stand having Rozier on the team how can you pay somebody double that who may be marginally better than him in a year. Rozier is still not even in his prime and he put up great numbers on good percentages for a guard.

[Soul Rebel]

So if WCJ is the piece to move from 4 to 2, I would have to think the NYK would give a lot to go from 8 to 3 if Ball is there.

I trust Mitch.

[JMAC3]

I will also say this on the Rozier front. Are we sure that Graham is that much better than him?

My gut says Graham is better, but what kind of contract does he want? he is already about to be 26 so this next deal will take him to being 30. Rozier is roughly the same age and actually put up better shooting numbers from three and also a higher effective field goal percentage.

Now Graham is still not as experienced so you would expect his numbers to rise in some areas, but we have to think about fit with certain players as well. Lets say we do draft Lamelo, which guard is the better fit with him moving forward?

I am more open to the wait and see approach before I am calling Terry a future cast away.

[yosemiteben]

Terry is 10 months older than Devonte' Graham and 6 months older than Thing 1 & 2. He's not too old to be in that core group.

Rozier is easily one of the 2 or 3 best players on the team, so his fit isn't about lack of skill.

Cap wise, even if the team had not traded for Terry they wouldn't have had cap space last year. This would have been the first year they could have space, and they'll have it with Terry, just like they would have had it without him.

I'll totally grant that the Kemba situation was a cluster. The Hornets could probably have done a lot better if they had traded Kemba early instead of the S&T they did. That's on the team and has no bearing on what Terry's value is both on the court and as a trade asset today.

I forget how old Devonte is, that's crazy that Rozier isn't even a full year older. That's a fair point that there's not a valid reason to consider Rozier out of the core but Devonte to be in it.

I agree they wouldn't have had cap space last year, but with the cap not going as high we would have had crazy cap flexibility this year and next year with our expirings at a time when many folks our cap strapped. And at the end of the day I just don't think Rozier moves the needle much and I think I'd prefer to have the cap space.

[Liver_Pooty]

So if WCJ is the piece to move from 4 to 2, I would have to think the NYK would give a lot to go from 8 to 3 if Ball is there.

I trust Mitch.

Conversation begins with RJ Barrett.

[amcoolio]

I would do Barrett and 8 (Okongwu or Hayes) for 3

But I kinda want to stick at 3 now and gamble on Ball or Wiseman

This process has gone on way too long

[JMAC3]

I guess my point would be who at 20 million or less does move the needle? (Outside of guys on Rookie Deals)

Guys in 15 to 20 million pay range heading into next year:

Zach Lavine
Gary Harris
Tim Hardaway
Julius Randle
Terry Rozier
Domantas
Aaron Gordon
Myles Turner
Bojan Bogdanvoic
Gorgui
Evan Fournier
Ricky Rubio
Eric Bledsoe
Eric Gordon
Caris Levert
James Johnson
Dennis Schroder
Cody Zeller
Danny Green
Jonas Valanciunas
Andre Iguodala

I mean there are a few good values here, but I wouldn't say there are many needle movers here (Sabonis, LeVert, Schroeder). Everyone else is probably a stretch to be a third best player.

[yosemiteben]

I guess my point would be who at 20 million or less does move the needle? (Outside of guys on Rookie Deals)

If this is directed at me, I'd say no one. We're rebuilding, so I don't think spending on needle movers makes sense. We should be using cap space to seek out draft assets and prospects, not signing FAs during the rebuild.

[JMAC3]

I guess my point would be who at 20 million or less does move the needle? (Outside of guys on Rookie Deals)

If this is directed at me, I'd say no one. We're rebuilding, so I don't think spending on needle movers makes sense. We should be using cap space to seek out draft assets and prospects, not signing FAs during the rebuild.

The way I look at things is different in the rebuilding phase. I think you want to slowly mix in veteran talent on more expensive deals with your younger players vs conventional thinking of get all your young guys then go sign Vets.

Same thought happens in the NFL a lot when you have a rookie QB that is your window to overpay Vets. By the time the Vets are expiring that is when you use that money to pay your Rookie QB. Same thought process here in the NBA.

You don't want to wait until you are paying your rookie 20 million dollars to try to put talent around them because you won't be able to afford it. The Celtics are a great example of this.... They paid Horford, Hayward, Kemba, Kyrie, Smart etc... while Tatum and Brown were cheap and were competitive. Now that Brown and Tatum are about to get paid they are getting rid of these older Vets to open up space.