2025 General Draft Discussion 2

[fatlever]

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

ringer with an updated mock and bigboard
spoiler - ace to hornets

ringer continues to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down on fears

[fatlever]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6414203/2025/06/10/nba-draft-guide-2025-top-100-prospects-cooper-flagg/?source=emp_shared_article

sam vecenie's draft guide is here. you can download as pdf with pw: NB@Dr@ft25

[fatlever]

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makes sense, and why its so hard to separate these 4 for me.

[amcoolio]

As of right now I think the order is Ace, VJ, Tre, Kon for me

I think if we were to properly develop him, not give him too much of a leash and he settles down and learns the game he will be somewhere in the Danny Granger/Larry Johnson/Paul George realm of player. He will be fine off catch and shoots and end of shot clock pullups.

I am nervous about VJ never being able to handle the ball, which will basically make him a poor man's Jaylen Brown without a Tatum paring. That Gary Harris comp scares me but it is accurate.

I am nervous about Tre never being able to get into the paint and score which will severely limit his upside. On one hand if he works hard, hits the weights and finds his center of balance he could absolutely be a taller Dame Lillard. On the other he might just be another player you can't really play in crunch time. He apparently works hard though.

Kon is Austin Reeves. Which is a good player and one we need, It's just a question whether you want to take that at 4 or not considering our lack of talent.

[Bassman]

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makes sense, and why its so hard to separate these 4 for me.

Thanks Fats, great guide and lots of details. Just getting first looks. He’s really down on Fears and Fleming, and pushes down Maluach to 12th compared to where some mocks are trying to place him. Granted his order is not as important as the groupings he has players in. My takeaways from this and similar sentiments:

1. If we keep 4, take the best player from the remaining group ranked as HIGH LEVERAGE STARTERS. That player pool is Ace, VJ, Kon and Tre.

2. If the brass want to really go for an all-star, find a way to trade up with the Spurs and take Harper. This draft almost reminds me of when we supposedly had the option of trading 2 picks to move up and draft Chris Paul. There is no way to know if the Spurs are willing to deal, or what it would take, but one major move this Hornets group could do is move some picks to grab ostensibly the only other probable superstar prospect this draft has. Vecenie has Harper classified as ALL STAR HIGH LEVEL STARTER, the only player there, and just retraining Flagg who is in his top tier called All NBA Players. He says Flagg is the highest prospect this decade outside of Wemby.

As to Harper and the rest of the draft, Sam says:

Dylan Harper falls into my second tier, which is the category for All-Stars. Harper’s ability to get into the paint and score at will, in addition to his polish and craft as a shot creator at nearly 6-foot-5, gives him a very high upside as the kind of big creator whom every team is in search of.

Beyond those two, I am a bit lower on this class of prospects than the consensus seems to be. I don’t see this as a particularly star-laden draft outside of the top two.

[LofJ]

One thing that gets lost in the Ace discussion is his defense. It's his saving grace as a prospect in my opinion. He's athletic, he competes, and he's already a really good weak side shot blocker. If I had more confidence in his maturity it wouldn't even be a conversation (and he wouldn't slip past 3).

[JMAC3]

I think Sam has some good thoughts, but he doesn't seem fluid enough for me on his ranks. His big board seems to be the exact same as it was pre-combine. I think he can be a bit vain about his ideas, whether it is a trade idea or prospect fitting with 1 team vs another. I see it on his youtube channel quite a bit.

He is clearly going out on a limb to not believe in Fears, will be interesting to see if he is right on this one.

[Bassman]

I think Sam has some good thoughts, but he doesn't seem fluid enough for me on his ranks. His big board seems to be the exact same as it was pre-combine. I think he can be a bit vain about his ideas, whether it is a trade idea or prospect fitting with 1 team vs another. I see it on his youtube channel quite a bit.

He is clearly going out on a limb to not believe in Fears, will be interesting to see if he is right on this one.

Is Sam the guy who talks to NBA execs, scouts, and incorporates their general player feedback into his ranking criteria? I’ve read too many sources and can’t recall. I know those folks will plant stories but getting input across dozens of sources can be helpful and offer clarity.

[Bassman]

One thing that gets lost in the Ace discussion is his defense. It's his saving grace as a prospect in my opinion. He's athletic, he competes, and he's already a really good weak side shot blocker. If I had more confidence in his maturity it wouldn't even be a conversation (and he wouldn't slip past 3).

It’s possible that Ace’s upside potential is just SO strong the Sixers will feel compelled to take him 3rd. There’s still no doubt in my mind he has the highest potential between he, VJ and Tre. If Philly chooses VJ, or even Tre, it would be hard to turn down Ace as our pick because of that potential. Does Tre really deliver anything more except initially better percentage 3’s? Harder decision compared to VJ. I know it’s close on some skill sets, but yikes, tough call.

[fatlever]

As of today, I don't think the Sixers will take ace. if he goes 3rd it's because someone traded up for him.

[JustBuzzin]

One thing that gets lost in the Ace discussion is his defense. It's his saving grace as a prospect in my opinion. He's athletic, he competes, and he's already a really good weak side shot blocker. If I had more confidence in his maturity it wouldn't even be a conversation (and he wouldn't slip past 3).

I been praising his defense. It's crazy people think this dude has bust potential when he can score and defend. Some people talk like this kid is just a raw low IQ prospect.

Ace was the #2 prospect in highschool for a reason.

[JMAC3]

I think Philly is in information gathering mode, I do think they potentially are interested in trading down and if that is the case then it is in their best interest to float as many names as they can... which we have now heard Ace, VJ, Kon, Tre, Maluach....

I think ultimately if they keep the pick Ace will be the pick despite all the fun talk about how they are considering anyone and everyone.

[Snidely FC]

I still haven't seen anything to make me think the pick won't be Ace Bailey or VJ Edgecombe

[JMAC3]

I think Sam has some good thoughts, but he doesn't seem fluid enough for me on his ranks. His big board seems to be the exact same as it was pre-combine. I think he can be a bit vain about his ideas, whether it is a trade idea or prospect fitting with 1 team vs another. I see it on his youtube channel quite a bit.

He is clearly going out on a limb to not believe in Fears, will be interesting to see if he is right on this one.

Is Sam the guy who talks to NBA execs, scouts, and incorporates their general player feedback into his ranking criteria? I’ve read too many sources and can’t recall. I know those folks will plant stories but getting input across dozens of sources can be helpful and offer clarity.

Nah I would say that is more Givony. Sam is going to talk to scouts but he doesn't usually let that impact his own personal ranks.
His mocks a few weeks ago kept putting Fears 16-20 because "There is a point guard deadzone"... meanwhile everyone is saying teams 5-8 all love him.

[JMAC3]

I think Sam has some good thoughts, but he doesn't seem fluid enough for me on his ranks. His big board seems to be the exact same as it was pre-combine. I think he can be a bit vain about his ideas, whether it is a trade idea or prospect fitting with 1 team vs another. I see it on his youtube channel quite a bit.

He is clearly going out on a limb to not believe in Fears, will be interesting to see if he is right on this one.

Is Sam the guy who talks to NBA execs, scouts, and incorporates their general player feedback into his ranking criteria? I’ve read too many sources and can’t recall. I know those folks will plant stories but getting input across dozens of sources can be helpful and offer clarity.

Nah I would say that is more Givony. Sam is going to talk to scouts but he doesn't usually let that impact his own personal ranks.
His mocks a few weeks ago kept putting Fears 16-20 because "There is a point guard deadzone"... meanwhile everyone is saying teams 5-8 all love him.

Off-topic but he also tends to be a bit of a homer for the guys he had ranked highly despite their success in the NBA. Said he thinks Jabari Smith should get a 4/100 extension, based on what?

He is constantly saying he was the biggest Amen supporter, he had Amen ranked 5th in that draft.

[fatlever]

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what we dream tiddy could have been

[fatlever]

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"intelligence character and professionalism"
much needed after mitch left us with an immature lockerroom for years or an overreaction?

[fatlever]

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[JDR720]

character and intel? That probably knocks Ace down a peg or two.

Also doesn't bode well for about half our current roster either.

[fatlever]

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Early reports the Sixers are leaning towards Vj. Is the second time I've seen something similar today. Obviously we still have two weeks to go and a lot can change.