Secret Sauce: The Terry Rozier Thread

[geraldwallace]

Give the guy a chance instead of hating on him instantly. Yes he is overpaid, yes he isn't Kemba Walker but Terry Rozier is a young player who's shown great two-way ability and flashes of being a star in the NBA. As a starter, Rozier averaged 15, 5 and 5 for the Celtics on 41% shooting over the past two years. Canning the guy before he even arrives in town won't help. Indiana fans were **** on Oladipo before he arrived too. I'm not saying the guy is Oladipo but I'm not counting him out before he even suits up for up.

[driveandkick]

Going back to the MLE statement, again we only have 9.7 million.

Other point guards who signed today.

Rubio- 3/51- couldn’t afford
Russell-4/117- no way to get
Brogdon 4-85- no way to get


Guys we could get:
Rozier 3/58
Drose 2/15-
George Hill 3/29

Looking at this from this angle I feel better




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Stop making sense

[BlackOutBuzz]

There's an obscure factor in this called "base-year compensation" that dilutes Kemba's outgoing value for matching purposes. A player that is:

1) signed-and-traded
2) at an amount that's a 20%+ raise
3) that takes his original team over the cap,...

has his outgoing value cut in half. All of these apply to Kemba, but only 1 and 2 apply to Rozier.

So Kemba's $32.7M contract effectively counts as a $16.35M deal, which can be matched to Rozier's $17.9M.

Question about this BoB:

Because of the "base-year compensation" factor you outlined above were we forced to sign Rozier to the contract we did in order to make the salaries align based on the contract Kemba was signed to?

If we had wanted to sign Rozier to a 3/30 type contract, could we have, or were we forced to sign him to something around $16.35mil year in order to facilitate the trade??

It would've had to have been close. Rough numbers the lowest possible that would work for 3 years would be about $41M, but the highest would be over $64M. Terry had interest from a few teams (Phoenix, NYK) and obviously had to be onboard with a sign-and-trade as well, so we had to make sure we had a competitive offer.

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[Chapelchilla]

Aye ya aye
So this has been a frustrating day. I held off posting earlier because I was just to upset that Cho and MJ mismanaged our contracts and finances so poorly that we lost the best Hornet of all time.
Plus we let walk another 2 of our better current players for nothing.
It’s really ridiculous that they didn’t develop a smarter plan and sequence the other contracts we handed out to avoid this situation.
But - I do think Kupchak has a plan and is working as smartly as he can within the terrible situation we’re in.
We are apparently going for a stronger/faster/nastier/longer limbed line up. Which is a good thing I think.
Rozier is a risky move but not necessarily a bad one. The dude is nasty alpha dog type player. He couldn’t be that with Kyrie. He can and better be that for the Hornets. I am little afraid of the Lance like aspects of his game but I do think he has moxie, runs the floor hard, can hit big shots at the end of games (something Kemba did not excel at), he is exciting to watch and passes well on fast breaks.
We may suck record wise this year but a large dose of running, shot blocking, dunk city, scrappy, 3 point shooting, fiesty line ups of Rozier, Miles, PJ, Bacon, Martin, Monk, Devonte with whatever big we have healthy may at least be entertaining.

I’m still very very frustrated about this franchise today but I can see a way out that looks appealing in a couple of years with that kind of team, some cap space coming and 2 high lotto picks.
If we get 18 playoffs Rozier (which I think may surprisingly be the real Terry, if he can keep his nose clean and work on consistency) we may actually be pretty fun to watch.

[Teal25]

I just wish it was 2 years instead of 3 so he can come off the books with Batum and Cody. At least we are not the Knicks.

[bravor]

They're grooming Monk to be the next primary scorer. It's not hard to figure out.

Is not hard to figure out that Rozier and Monk are not complementary players, though. But we will see on the court.

How are they not compatible? One is a lock down defender who shoots a respectable 3 and the other is all offense. One has a 6-8 wingspan, allowing him to guard opposing shooting guards while Monk guards the point guards.

I am talking about their size at the guard spot, especially on a heavy switching league (Borrego was not an exception last year). Anyway as i said, we will what the hornets get. hopefully Monk will restore some value and become an asset for this team moving forward.

Really wished we could have seen Hill here on a two years contract. Pretty sure he would have been a perfect vet to lead the young crew.
At least rozier's contract should be movable (esp. considering all the new contracts that have been signed elsewhere..).

[BigSlam]

There's an obscure factor in this called "base-year compensation" that dilutes Kemba's outgoing value for matching purposes. A player that is:

1) signed-and-traded
2) at an amount that's a 20%+ raise
3) that takes his original team over the cap,...

has his outgoing value cut in half. All of these apply to Kemba, but only 1 and 2 apply to Rozier.

So Kemba's $32.7M contract effectively counts as a $16.35M deal, which can be matched to Rozier's $17.9M.

Question about this BoB:

Because of the "base-year compensation" factor you outlined above were we forced to sign Rozier to the contract we did in order to make the salaries align based on the contract Kemba was signed to?

If we had wanted to sign Rozier to a 3/30 type contract, could we have, or were we forced to sign him to something around $16.35mil year in order to facilitate the trade??

It would've had to have been close. Rough numbers the lowest possible that would work for 3 years would be about $41M, but the highest would be over $64M. Terry had interest from a few teams (Phoenix, NYK) and obviously had to be onboard with a sign-and-trade as well, so we had to make sure we had a competitive offer.

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Interesting. thanks.

So even if there were no other suitors and we were the only team interested in Rozier, we were obligated to offer him the contract that we did (the per year at least) because of the contract Kemba agreed to.

[Braggins]

Lol, im out. Ill be back when the team is moved to Seattle in a couple years.

[KIRAG]

He is definitely no Kemba but he is not the worst

This was his first ever NBA career start because Kyrie and Smart were both injured

Watch on YouTube

[Buzzzz]

I'm going down with this sinking ship

[euphorbus]

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/06/30/terry-rozier-hornets-contract-free-agency-celtics-kemba-walker

"This move screams panic after the Hornets lowballed Walker and let Lamb walk. At that juncture, Charlotte’s best bet would have likely been standing pat and going forward full force with a youth movement. Rozier doesn’t prevent that necessarily, but he’ll command the ball on a team that should realistically be focused on bottoming out and shedding salary as opposed to taking on such an expensive—and unproven—player."

[Snidely FC]

The Hornets may find they would have been better off just using their midlevel exception on a less coveted point guard while waiting to find a long-term replacement for Walker in the draft.- Kevin Pelton, E+

[Snidely FC]

How is terry’s defense?

Rozier best attribute as a pro prospect is his tenacious defense, evidenced most by his 2.2 steals per 40 minutes which he gets by using his length and anticipation skills to play the passing lanes and lead to easy baskets. He has the potential to defend either guard spot with his 6-8 wingspan and is a pest on the ball, pressuring the ball incessantly on every possession. He moves his feet exceptionally well to stay in front of dribble penetration and his strength prevents him from being bumped out of position. He does so without fouling, averaging just 1.7 fouls per game, which is impressive considering how aggressively he plays. He's also a great rebounder for his size, averaging 6.2 total rebounds per 40 minutes pace adjusted (4.9 defensive), - Source: 2015http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Terry-Rozier-58730/ ©DraftExpress

maybe comp Avery Bradley who is 6'2 w/ 6'7 wingspan?

[BlackOutBuzz]

Question about this BoB:

Because of the "base-year compensation" factor you outlined above were we forced to sign Rozier to the contract we did in order to make the salaries align based on the contract Kemba was signed to?

If we had wanted to sign Rozier to a 3/30 type contract, could we have, or were we forced to sign him to something around $16.35mil year in order to facilitate the trade??

It would've had to have been close. Rough numbers the lowest possible that would work for 3 years would be about $41M, but the highest would be over $64M. Terry had interest from a few teams (Phoenix, NYK) and obviously had to be onboard with a sign-and-trade as well, so we had to make sure we had a competitive offer.

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Interesting. thanks.

So even if there were no other suitors and we were the only team interested in Rozier, we were obligated to offer him the contract that we did (the per year at least) because of the contract Kemba agreed to.

Last night I kinda forgot about the MLE angle, in theory we could've offered that for 3 years/$29M. Close to your number, but I'm not sure that gets him. At least we still have that option to use elsewhere.

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[LurkCobain]

Terry will average 20 ppg and 5 apg next year. Tag my post.

Tell me his advanced metrics not arcane stats from the 1980’s

Go look that up if you want it chief. Some of you guys need to get off your high horse. You wouldve been mad at anything but offering Kemba 180 mill for 5 years.

[Splitta]

I originally thought Mitch was out of his mind and was actually Cho reincarnated, but after some on the board have explained how the sign/trade and MLE work, it was probably the best move to maybe overpay Rozier or he would not have agreed to the S/T. I expect that the Knicks or Phoenix with plenty of cap money would have got him in free agency leaving the Hornets with someone like Hill or Rose. He may be a diamond in the rough and if not maybe a tradeable piece. We will now have a very young core with a bunch of old bad contracts that will be all gone in two years. Based on our roster make up and cap limitations, it was best to let Kemba go. It does appear that Mitch has a plan but it is confusing and even irritating.

[gundysmullet]

Terry will average 20 ppg and 5 apg next year. Tag my post.

Tell me his advanced metrics not arcane stats from the 1980’s

Go look that up if you want it chief. Some of you guys need to get off your high horse. You wouldve been mad at anything but offering Kemba 180 mill for 5 years.

Wrong. I laid out exactly what I wanted the team to do if Kemba walked. Signing a high volume, inefficient tunnel vision chucking pg to a $19million/year contract wasn't it.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I wanted to sleep on this one before commenting.

After digesting everything, I'm good with the team getting Terry. As noted by others here in the thread
1. He's a young guy who had done well when starting
2. He's better than most of the other available options had the team not traded for him.
3. His assist percentage, which I was worried about, is much better in splits as a starter over the last 2 years.
4. He's a good defender so can play with guys who are weaker on that end.
5. The contract pretty much is what it had to be given the complex sign & trade. (Great convo in this thread about it)
6. I like that the team is not trying to be as terrible as possible and do a full tank.

Things I worry about
1. The Brad Stevens effect - many players seem to regress stat wise when leaving Boston
2. BBIQ and how his PG play will affect development of other young guys
3. How team chemistry will be post Kemba with Rozier

[gundysmullet]

I wanted to sleep on this one before commenting.

After digesting everything, I'm good with the team getting Terry. As noted by others here in the thread
1. He's a young guy who had done well when starting
2. He's better than most of the other available options had the team not traded for him.
3. His assist percentage, which I was worried about, is much better in splits as a starter over the last 2 years.
4. He's a good defender so can play with guys who are weaker on that end.
5. The contract pretty much is what it had to be given the complex sign & trade. (Great convo in this thread about it)
6. I like that the team is not trying to be as terrible as possible and do a full tank.

Things I worry about
1. The Brad Stevens effect - many players seem to regress stat wise when leaving Boston
2. BBIQ and how his PG play will affect development of other young guys
3. How team chemistry will be post Kemba with Rozier

I disagree with almost everything that you posted. I just screams irrelevant mediocrity, in other words: Same Old Hornets

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Why the contract is 3 years instead of 2

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