ImageImage

I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread

Moderators: BigSlam, yosemiteben, fatlever, JDR720, Diop

User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 51,164
And1: 8,360
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#221 » by BigSlam » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:59 pm

fatlever wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:
BigSlam wrote:The Charlotte #Hornets DRB% under Steve Clifford in his 5 seasons —

13-14: 77.6 (1st)
14-15: 79.3 (1st)
15-16: 79.7 (1st)
16-17: 79.5 (2nd)
17-18: 80.7 (1st)

now do fast break scoring
You read my mind

Fast break scoring
Pace
Offensive ratings
Passes per game (I think we did move the ball quite well under cliff)
3s per game
Corner 3s
3s allowed
Corner 3s allowed


Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

We maximised all those areas the last two seasons.

How’d that work out?
B B M F 'ers
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,349
And1: 15,566
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#222 » by yosemiteben » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:00 pm

Interesting Cliff fact of the day: on average we had a faster pace (in terms of league rank) the last 4 years under Cliff than the 4 years under JB.

Cliff average rank is 17th (22, 19, 18, 9)

JB average rank is 19th (20, 30, 21, 5)
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,349
And1: 15,566
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#223 » by yosemiteben » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:14 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Interesting Cliff fact of the day: on average we had a faster pace (in terms of league rank) the last 4 years under Cliff than the 4 years under JB.

Cliff average rank is 17th (22, 19, 18, 9)

JB average rank is 19th (20, 30, 21, 5)

Being obnoxious and quoting myself to bring the second interesting Cliff fact of the day:

We had a better average offensive efficiency (in terms of league rank) under Cliff during his last four years than we did under JB.

Cliff average rank is 16th (28, 9, 14, 13)

JB average rank is 18th (15, 28, 23, 6)

This **** is kinda wild.
Chapelchilla
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,951
And1: 1,377
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#224 » by Chapelchilla » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:19 pm

Here is the letter from Mitch to our season ticket holders - he specifically says we will still play fast paced ball! Also the emphasis on Player Development. Whew....

ear Hive Society Member,

I’m excited to officially welcome back Steve Clifford as the new head coach of your Charlotte Hornets. As many of you know, Steve previously served as our head coach from 2013-2018. Ultimately, we determined that Steve’s previous head coaching experience, knowledge and philosophy made him the best coach for our team.

Coach Clifford, who was most recently a coaching consultant for the Brooklyn Nets in 2021-22, has eight years of head coaching experience with the Hornets and Orlando Magic, leading his teams to the playoffs in four of those seasons (twice in Charlotte). He has a proven track record of improving defenses as evidenced by his teams finishing in the NBA’s top 10 in both points allowed and defensive rating in five of his eight seasons. Coach Clifford returns to the Charlotte bench as the second-winningest coach in franchise history.

As I’ve stated since I arrived in Charlotte four years ago, one of our foundational tenants will always be player development. We will continue to work with our players to help them reach their full potential. Coach Clifford has a history of maximizing players’ talent and an ability to get the most out of them. He has helped many NBA players improve, develop and expand their skill sets, including Kemba Walker (Charlotte) and Nikola Vucevic (Orlando), who became first-time NBA All-Stars while playing for him. We believe that Coach Clifford’s player development work will build upon the previous strides that we have made in this area with our players.

We have a young, exciting team – one that plays with pace, shares the basketball and excels on the offensive end of the floor. Coach Clifford is committed to playing with the same offensive pace that you – our most loyal fans – are accustomed to seeing the last few years at Spectrum Center. He will continue to emphasize these strengths on the offensive end of the floor, while providing additional attention to our defense. He brings more than 20 years of NBA coaching experience and has demonstrated the ability to develop strong relationships with his players. I look forward to working with Coach Clifford as we continue to build our team.

Finally, I want to share with you that I’m more excited than ever about our future in Charlotte. I believe that we are building something special with our talented, young core of players. As a Hive Society Member, your continued support has been instrumental in the growth of our team, and the home-court advantage you create at Spectrum Center will continue to be a key factor as we look to take the next step.

Thank you for being a member of our Hornets family.

Sincerely,
MitchkupchakSignature_200x46.jpg
Mitch Kupchak
President of Basketball Operations & General Manager
Charlotte Hornets
User avatar
Mauro Pedrosa
Analyst
Posts: 3,630
And1: 4,408
Joined: Oct 15, 2016
Contact:
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#225 » by Mauro Pedrosa » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:30 pm

Oof. Even though I’m not a Hornets fan I have to express my disgust. You guys just had two of the most mind blowing things happening back to back.

Atkinson breaking his promise was one of the weakest moves in sports history and now this.

Y’all have my sympathy
User avatar
God Squad
RealGM
Posts: 13,352
And1: 11,594
Joined: Feb 22, 2010
Location: Toronto
 

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#226 » by God Squad » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:39 pm

Guys.. make this make sense to me. I'm extremely confused.
Image
LofJ
RealGM
Posts: 12,950
And1: 11,156
Joined: Mar 29, 2014
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#227 » by LofJ » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:48 pm

Mauro Pedrosa wrote:Oof. Even though I’m not a Hornets fan I have to express my disgust. You guys just had two of the most mind blowing things happening back to back.

Atkinson breaking his promise was one of the weakest moves in sports history and now this.

Y’all have my sympathy


I'll just say that I'm a bit depressed, feels like we got punched in the balls as a fanbase.
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 59,222
And1: 15,781
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#228 » by fatlever » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:59 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Interesting Cliff fact of the day: on average we had a faster pace (in terms of league rank) the last 4 years under Cliff than the 4 years under JB.

Cliff average rank is 17th (22, 19, 18, 9)

JB average rank is 19th (20, 30, 21, 5)
Because Graham played at snails pace because he couldn't beat anyone off the dribble.

Melo changes everything pace related. Cliff has to embrace that.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,349
And1: 15,566
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#229 » by yosemiteben » Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:19 pm

fatlever wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Interesting Cliff fact of the day: on average we had a faster pace (in terms of league rank) the last 4 years under Cliff than the 4 years under JB.

Cliff average rank is 17th (22, 19, 18, 9)

JB average rank is 19th (20, 30, 21, 5)
Because Graham played at snails pace because he couldn't beat anyone off the dribble.

Melo changes everything pace related. Cliff has to embrace that.

Oh completely agree that Cliff needs to embrace Melo and the unique value he brings.

My point is just that we actually don't have anything to point to that says Cliff can't do that or is more philosphically prone to a slower pace any more so than JB was.
W_HAMILTON
RealGM
Posts: 17,453
And1: 16,996
Joined: Jun 13, 2004
 

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#230 » by W_HAMILTON » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:13 pm

fatlever wrote:I won't believe Clifford for a second if he starts talking about playing with pace like our team last year did. He may attempt that at first, but at the first sign of a losing streak or the first sign of a game with a lot of turnovers in a row he will revert to his old tactics of slowing the game down to a crawl. If we finish in the top 15 in Pace I will be surprised

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app


Clifford is in his 60s. He's been coaching for ~40 years now (~20 in the NBA).

I have no faith that he is going to somehow magically change from the same coach with the same deficiencies that we fired a few years back. Maybe -- hopefully? -- there will be some improvement on the fringes, but he is who he is at this point.

It seems we basically just traded a coach with defensive problems for a coach with offensive problems (that we already fired once), and I feel like Borrego's defensive problems had a whole lot better chance of getting addressed and improved upon than Clifford's offensive problems.
Howard Mass wrote:You do not have the right to not be offended. Just because something is offensive to you does not mean that it breaks the board rules.
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,349
And1: 15,566
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#231 » by yosemiteben » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:18 pm

W_HAMILTON wrote:It seems we basically just traded a coach with defensive problems for a coach with offensive problems (that we already fired once), and I feel like Borrego's defensive problems had a whole lot better chance of getting addressed and improved upon than Clifford's offensive problems.

What do we make of the fact that on the whole we were a better offensive team under Cliff than under JB? Why are we assuming that Cliff is a bad offensive coach?
User avatar
Stun704
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,775
And1: 231
Joined: Feb 21, 2010
     

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#232 » by Stun704 » Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:16 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
W_HAMILTON wrote:It seems we basically just traded a coach with defensive problems for a coach with offensive problems (that we already fired once), and I feel like Borrego's defensive problems had a whole lot better chance of getting addressed and improved upon than Clifford's offensive problems.

What do we make of the fact that on the whole we were a better offensive team under Cliff than under JB? Why are we assuming that Cliff is a bad offensive coach?

That’s the narrative just like the talking point that he isn’t good at developing players when in truth a lot of journeymen had career years under his coaching. It’s not Clifford’s fault most of the young players drafted under his tenure were busts
Image
Pimpwerx wrote:I was a fan of the Lakers...Yankees... It took me almost a decade to become a fan of the Miami teams...I know it's frowned upon, but if you can look at it as an outsider, it's easier to understand why it happens. PEACE.
Rich4114
RealGM
Posts: 11,344
And1: 4,683
Joined: Mar 11, 2004
Location: PA
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#233 » by Rich4114 » Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:20 pm

While I’m pretty worried about our offense and ability to run inbound plays during crunch time under Cliff, I’ll try to think back to the second half of the 15-16 season when teams briefly called us “The Warriors of the East”. This is also the most talented roster he’s ever had.

But damn, does this just look dumb. Win games and it won’t matter though. Crash and burn, and it’ll be a **** show parade.
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 40,846
And1: 16,836
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#234 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:35 pm

Stun704 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
W_HAMILTON wrote:It seems we basically just traded a coach with defensive problems for a coach with offensive problems (that we already fired once), and I feel like Borrego's defensive problems had a whole lot better chance of getting addressed and improved upon than Clifford's offensive problems.

What do we make of the fact that on the whole we were a better offensive team under Cliff than under JB? Why are we assuming that Cliff is a bad offensive coach?

That’s the narrative just like the talking point that he isn’t good at developing players when in truth a lot of journeymen had career years under his coaching. It’s not Clifford’s fault most of the young players drafted under his tenure were busts


Exactly.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
User avatar
MasterIchiro
RealGM
Posts: 21,388
And1: 6,845
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: The Dirty Water
       

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#235 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:47 am

Cho's picks were busts? I disagree. I mean, besides Biz, MKG, Zeller, Vonleh, Kaminsky, Monk, and Hairston, but who else? Cliff had Gary Neal and failed to win a Chip. No excuse for that.
It has been written...
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,349
And1: 15,566
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#236 » by yosemiteben » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:16 am

Forgot about Gary Neal.

Man we've been through some things.

Remember when we finally got Ridnour? I was sure he was gonna turn things around.
User avatar
countryboi
Head Coach
Posts: 7,332
And1: 1,474
Joined: Jul 30, 2008
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#237 » by countryboi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:20 am

I just dont see how we can both win and develop these guys with the big red dog. Cliff is going to want to win now with all the same flaws he had before. we should have kept JB and hired Clifford to be his lead asst.
The Cut Podcast, An Hilarious barbershop style discussion podcast. Watch us on Youtube and listen to us on all major Podcast Platforms. https://linktr.ee/thecut_podcast
User avatar
Diop
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 40,564
And1: 20,892
Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Location: Diop Dead Ugly
 

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#238 » by Diop » Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:46 am

A lot of the development has been in g league, so hopefully it’s the assistant coaches we’re holding onto who are driving the development.

We do need some win now
Image
User avatar
MPM
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,327
And1: 3,865
Joined: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Mouse Town
     

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#239 » by MPM » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:59 am

Why does JaMychal Green seem like a guy we’d trade for under Cliff?

(Hornets, if you’re listening, please, please don’t trade for JaMychal Green.)
User avatar
SWedd523
RealGM
Posts: 13,527
And1: 6,477
Joined: Jul 07, 2009
   

Re: I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread (appointed as HC...again) 

Post#240 » by SWedd523 » Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:23 am

yosemiteben wrote:
fatlever wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Interesting Cliff fact of the day: on average we had a faster pace (in terms of league rank) the last 4 years under Cliff than the 4 years under JB.

Cliff average rank is 17th (22, 19, 18, 9)

JB average rank is 19th (20, 30, 21, 5)
Because Graham played at snails pace because he couldn't beat anyone off the dribble.

Melo changes everything pace related. Cliff has to embrace that.

Oh completely agree that Cliff needs to embrace Melo and the unique value he brings.

My point is just that we actually don't have anything to point to that says Cliff can't do that or is more philosphically prone to a slower pace any more so than JB was.

Those ranks are a bit disingenuous. This was Melo's first season as the guy. The change is clear
Image

Return to Charlotte Hornets