LaMelephant: The LaMelo Ball Thread (#2)

[JMAC3]

its an unpopular opinion... especially given the state of the roster, and coaching... and given melo's fantastic offensive #s...
but i don't think it's an outrageous take to wonder if melo is capable of being the best player on a good team, based on how he plays now.
don't get me wrong, we have so many issues to address, before we get to melo. but... one day in the near future, we may need to have some real talk about melo and winning.
95% of the time, melo is near unplayable defensively, then he dives out of bounds to save a ball or he makes a game winning deflection on Hali to win a game... and everyone points to those plays as evidence that melo plays both ends. but lets not kid ourselves. 95% of the time, he's out of position, or getting roasted (usually while hiding on the worst off wing/guard on the floor) or he's just standing around.
when melo was out and dsj was healthy last spring we had a top 5 defense. melo returns, dsj is gone, we are dead last. it's not a coincidence.
the front office has to really figure out who to put next to melo to solve his defense. his defense is just so god awful, I feel like you need 4 elite defenders next to him to make up for him. how the **** do the hawks do it with trae? lol
just something to watch over the season(s).
like i said, right now, we have a lot more issues to address first, but one day...
if we ever get into a serious playoff series, opposing teams will murder melo on switches. he will get targeted non-stop.

Melo hasn't been some elite defender, obviously we hide him and play the other guard on the main ball handler. I just don't watch him on that end and feel hopeless though. He does make plays getting in passing lanes and his size helps significantly on the boards. If he is out of position then to me that feels like our players and coaching staff aren't on the same page, not a lack of talent or want to.

[SWedd523]

its an unpopular opinion... especially given the state of the roster, and coaching... and given melo's fantastic offensive #s...
but i don't think it's an outrageous take to wonder if melo is capable of being the best player on a good team, based on how he plays now.

I don't think that's the argument being made by outsiders and fans of other teams.

don't get me wrong, we have so many issues to address, before we get to melo. but... one day in the near future, we may need to have some real talk about melo and winning.
95% of the time, melo is near unplayable defensively, then he dives out of bounds to save a ball or he makes a game winning deflection on Hali to win a game... and everyone points to those plays as evidence that melo plays both ends. but lets not kid ourselves. 95% of the time, he's out of position, or getting roasted (usually while hiding on the worst off wing/guard on the floor) or he's just standing around.

I think expecting the guy who carries almost 100% of the offense to also be a plus defender is somewhere between unrealistic and unfair.

There's a reason why MJ is the GOAT and high end two way guys fill up most of the top 10. That's a very, very rare makeup.

when melo was out and dsj was healthy last spring we had a top 5 defense. melo returns, dsj is gone, we are dead last. it's not a coincidence.

Now do the offensive numbers

the front office has to really figure out who to put next to melo to solve his defense. his defense is just so god awful, I feel like you need 4 elite defenders next to him to make up for him. how the **** do the hawks do it with trae? lol
just something to watch over the season(s).
like i said, right now, we have a lot more issues to address first, but one day...
if we ever get into a serious playoff series, opposing teams will murder melo on switches. he will get targeted non-stop.

Good coaches and FO do it with guys like Luka, KD, Trae, etc.

It's an indictment on the management way more so than Melo.

I think, if anything, Melo has shown a tremendous ability to be deferential when needed. I have zero doubts that he could function in a variety of offensive schemes, provided you give him the talent necessary to make that work.

Defensively, you're just not going to get lockdown from a guy who does so much work on the other end of the floor. Luka, for example, is an atrocious defender. That's okay though because he's a winner, or plays the right way, or something, I dunno.

Same could be said for Trae ("he's underrated, he's a top 5 PG..."), Haliburton ("he's the best shooting/passing combo we've ever seen"), and a host of other guys.

I'm fairly certain that if you were to put Melo on a good team then all of a sudden his warts go away. Weird how that works.

[JMAC3]

Same could be said for Trae ("he's underrated, he's a top 5 PG..."), Haliburton ("he's the best shooting/passing combo we've ever seen"), and a host of other guys.

I'm fairly certain that if you were to put Melo on a good team then all of a sudden his warts go away. Weird how that works.

To be fair.
LaMelo and Hornets are 30th in Def Rating
Mavs are 26th
Pacers are 27th
Hawks are 22nd

They just happen to be the 1st, 3rd and 5th best offenses. Whereas Hornets are 17th.

The answer for the Hornets is never to have a top 10 defense, but if we can get to the 15-20th best defense with a top 10 offense then we are probably a top 12 team in the League.

[Bassman]

I get both points, but share Fat’s major concerns for Melo relative to defense. So far this season his effort level is improved, his focus is stronger throughout games (less profiling) so that is encouraging. He will look VERY good with good players around him. I think Miles and Miller are part of the solution, as of course is Mark (who with experience and better coaching/schemes will be a force nightly). We need that ONE added impact guy who can defend their best player and give us strong offense when needed.

[fatlever]

i do agree it unfair to ask melo to carry 100% of the offensive burden and then expect him to be energized on defense. in theory, its why i want melo off ball a little more on offense.
for example... if you asked me who i'd rather have next to melo, an elite def point guard w/ size or an elite def wing... jrue or mikal? i'd pick jrue.
its nuts we didn't prioritize dsj.

[fatlever]

yes, offense was trash with melo out... point was the impact dsj instead of melo had on defense to show how hard it is to have a solid def w/ melo. my hope for this year was melo + dsj... not instead of... or melo + cody (but that dream is dead)

like jmac mentioned, our offense has to be top 10 to make up for melo, who will make it difficult to ever be top 15 def.

[KingCat]

I'd like to put atleast one or two legit POA defenders next to Melo before making any major judgements about his ability to win. Steph would have struggled without Dray and Klay backing him up on Defense.

[fatlever]

I'd like to put atleast one or two legit POA defenders next to Melo before making any major judgements about his ability to win. Steph would have struggled without Dray and Klay backing him up on Defense.

all very true.
which is more insane we let dsj go like we did. truly baffling decision by mitch, especially given uncertainty of cody's knee.

[JMAC3]

I'd like to put atleast one or two legit POA defenders next to Melo before making any major judgements about his ability to win. Steph would have struggled without Dray and Klay backing him up on Defense.

all very true.
which is more insane we let dsj go like we did. truly baffling decision by mitch, especially given uncertainty of cody's knee.

Dennis Smith is a super flawed player, he was a negative Vorp despite his great defense. Negative BSPM player. I mean would I take him knowing all I know now? sure, but it is not as if we let a winning player walk.

[JDR720]

It's not just Melo, pretty much nobody on the team plays defense besides Mark, Miller and sometimes PJ/Nick.

Read on Twitter

[fatlever]

i'm not entirely sure mark is a good defender, honestly. better than what we've had in long time, but still long way to go.

[JMAC3]

i'm not entirely sure mark is a good defender, honestly. better than what we've had in long time, but still long way to go.

Mark was an elite defender in college. Showed signs of being elite last year. So either all that was just luck and he actually isn't a good defender or Clifford isn't putting him in the right situation to succeed.

[fatlever]

i'm not entirely sure mark is a good defender, honestly. better than what we've had in long time, but still long way to go.

Mark was an elite defender in college. Showed signs of being elite last year. So either all that was just luck and he actually isn't a good defender or Clifford isn't putting him in the right situation to succeed.

yes, not good in current scheme role.
but, still needs to get much stronger

[JDR720]

Frank will make our defense elite when he comes back.

[luciano-davidwesley]

its an unpopular opinion... especially given the state of the roster, and coaching... and given melo's fantastic offensive #s...
but i don't think it's an outrageous take to wonder if melo is capable of being the best player on a good team, based on how he plays now.
don't get me wrong, we have so many issues to address, before we get to melo. but... one day in the near future, we may need to have some real talk about melo and winning.
95% of the time, melo is near unplayable defensively, then he dives out of bounds to save a ball or he makes a game winning deflection on Hali to win a game... and everyone points to those plays as evidence that melo plays both ends. but lets not kid ourselves. 95% of the time, he's out of position, or getting roasted (usually while hiding on the worst off wing/guard on the floor) or he's just standing around.
when melo was out and dsj was healthy last spring we had a top 5 defense. melo returns, dsj is gone, we are dead last. it's not a coincidence.
the front office has to really figure out who to put next to melo to solve his defense. his defense is just so god awful, I feel like you need 4 elite defenders next to him to make up for him. how the **** do the hawks do it with trae? lol
just something to watch over the season(s).
like i said, right now, we have a lot more issues to address first, but one day...
if we ever get into a serious playoff series, opposing teams will murder melo on switches. he will get targeted non-stop.

100% agree. He's a passing savant and his shooting and ability to space the floor is verging on elite but he just looks like he's on roller skates defensively at times and he makes bad decisions on the court that All-NBA players don't.

I'm talking about game management, cheap fouls etc and these are the little 1%ers that are often the difference between winning and losing.

Admittedly he is the last of our problems right now though.

[luciano-davidwesley]

its an unpopular opinion... especially given the state of the roster, and coaching... and given melo's fantastic offensive #s...
but i don't think it's an outrageous take to wonder if melo is capable of being the best player on a good team, based on how he plays now.

I don't think that's the argument being made by outsiders and fans of other teams.

don't get me wrong, we have so many issues to address, before we get to melo. but... one day in the near future, we may need to have some real talk about melo and winning.
95% of the time, melo is near unplayable defensively, then he dives out of bounds to save a ball or he makes a game winning deflection on Hali to win a game... and everyone points to those plays as evidence that melo plays both ends. but lets not kid ourselves. 95% of the time, he's out of position, or getting roasted (usually while hiding on the worst off wing/guard on the floor) or he's just standing around.

I think expecting the guy who carries almost 100% of the offense to also be a plus defender is somewhere between unrealistic and unfair.

There's a reason why MJ is the GOAT and high end two way guys fill up most of the top 10. That's a very, very rare makeup.

when melo was out and dsj was healthy last spring we had a top 5 defense. melo returns, dsj is gone, we are dead last. it's not a coincidence.

Now do the offensive numbers

the front office has to really figure out who to put next to melo to solve his defense. his defense is just so god awful, I feel like you need 4 elite defenders next to him to make up for him. how the **** do the hawks do it with trae? lol
just something to watch over the season(s).
like i said, right now, we have a lot more issues to address first, but one day...
if we ever get into a serious playoff series, opposing teams will murder melo on switches. he will get targeted non-stop.

Good coaches and FO do it with guys like Luka, KD, Trae, etc.

It's an indictment on the management way more so than Melo.

I think, if anything, Melo has shown a tremendous ability to be deferential when needed. I have zero doubts that he could function in a variety of offensive schemes, provided you give him the talent necessary to make that work.

Defensively, you're just not going to get lockdown from a guy who does so much work on the other end of the floor. Luka, for example, is an atrocious defender. That's okay though because he's a winner, or plays the right way, or something, I dunno.

Same could be said for Trae ("he's underrated, he's a top 5 PG..."), Haliburton ("he's the best shooting/passing combo we've ever seen"), and a host of other guys.

I'm fairly certain that if you were to put Melo on a good team then all of a sudden his warts go away. Weird how that works.

Some good points here as well. As an organisation Charlotte has done a very poor job finding players that complement Melo well. Like the 3 plus years of undersized Terry as his backcourt partner and only recently getting some respectable rim protection insurance for when defenders blow past him.

He's not the problem but he needs to make a few minor adjustments that would help himself and the team immensely.

[fatlever]

The last player Melo needs next to him is a one trick iso combo guard... yet mitch just keeps trying and trying.

Surround Melo with
1. Shooters
2. POA defenders
3. Roll men
4. Vet leaders
5. A rock solid back up pg

Mitch has failed on 4 of those 5. Its really not that **** hard to see.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[JDR720]

Hopefully he won't turn into Kemba 2.0.

Melo is better/higher upside than Kemba, so our floor is probably higher. But the supporting cast keeps our ceiling low until it gets fixed.


Miller/Mark/Miles are for sure good fits. Gordon is a good fit, as a veteran depth piece not as a key starter, PJ is a good fit when he shoots well.

Everyone else isn't.

[KingCat]

Man is on the best tear I've seen from one of our players since I started following in 08. Maybe Kemba had something better in 2018-2019, but my mind naturally blocks out those times.

[LofJ]

What do our owners/coaches need to do to get refs to start calling it when LaMelo is fouled? It needs to be addressed. He's a star player, the fan metrics back it up. It's time for the league to start treating him like one.