Around the NBA 12

[SWedd523]

I'm... not entirely sure what you're trying to get at?

[yosemiteben]

I'm... not entirely sure what you're trying to get at?

Seems to me he's saying you can get shooting without significant draft capital

[Braggins]

Spoiler:

And they were a fringe, play-in team that lost their first play-in game because of it.

Now take a look at how they've been shooting in the playoffs. I'll give you a hint. It's at a historic level.

That's why they're doing what they're doing.

No, they (Jimmy/Bam) aren't. Jimmy is shooting 36% vs 35% and is still only attempting 3.5 3pt shots per game and Bam hasn't made a single 3pt shot in the playoffs...

The Lakers made it to the final four with Lebron shooting 26% from 3pt in the playoffs and AD shooting 5/15 from 3pt. Plenty of successful teams run their offense through guys who aren't good 3pt shooters and get their spacing mostly from role players.

Why does it matter who is doing the shooting? Teams that shoot better from range win more. I've already made a big post on this.

LA forgetting how to shoot while playing a team full of a bunch of shooters is a big reason why they got swept

Because this playoff 3pt shooting point keeps being brought up in the context of being an argument in favor of taking Brandon Miller over Scoot with the 2nd pick.

Literally everyone understand that NBA teams collectively need to have plenty of 3pt shooting, but that doesn't mean that you have to run your offense through someone who is a good 3pt shooter. The Heat are in the finals playing through Jimmy/Bam. The Lakers made the final four playing through Lebron/AD. The Grizzlies have been a playoff mainstay playing through Jah. The Bucks won a title recently playing through Giannis. The Kings were the 3rd seed and had one of the best offenses in history playing through Fox/Sabonis. Zion is never healthy, but the Pelicans have been really good when he plays.

Scoot is being drafted to be a guy who you run your offense through and provides most of his value through offensive creation. You don't have to be a good 3pt shooter to excel at that and high level shot creation also positively effects team 3pt%. It can simultaneous be true that Scoot isn't a good 3pt shooter and that he is also a better player than Miller and should be the pick. The argument can't be simply reduced to who is the better shooter.

[SWedd523]

When has anyone said "run the offense" through Miller?

Did Melo die?

The reason most of those guys went undrafted is because they don't offer anything else besides shooting.

Contrast with Miller who has shown significantly more tools than any of them. That's kind of an important distinction...

Like why does this need to be explained?

Mac Mclung just won the dunk contest. That's proof great athletes can be found without draft capital and Scoot should go undrafted... or something?

[wilson115]

I'm... not entirely sure what you're trying to get at?

Seems to me he's saying you can get shooting without significant draft capital

Or through free agency like contending teams do all the time. With vets like PJ Tucker or Kyle Korver going ring-chasing.

In our case remember when we got Courtney Lee through a midseason trade and went to the play-offs.

[MasterIchiro]

I'm tired.

[SWedd523]

I'm... not entirely sure what you're trying to get at?

Seems to me he's saying you can get shooting without significant draft capital

Or through free agency like contending teams do all the time. With vets like PJ Tucker or Kyle Korver going ring-chasing.

Or in our case remember when we got Courtney Lee through a midseason trade and went to the play-offs.

So then is our FO self sabotaging or are they (Please Use More Appropriate Word) because they've consistently fielded one of the worst shooting teams in the entire league?

[BeesWax]

Seems to me he's saying you can get shooting without significant draft capital

Or through free agency like contending teams do all the time. With vets like PJ Tucker or Kyle Korver going ring-chasing.

Or in our case remember when we got Courtney Lee through a midseason trade and went to the play-offs.

So then is our FO self sabotaging or are they (Please Use More Appropriate Word) because they've consistently fielded one of the worst shooting teams in the entire league?

We were 6th in 3pt% the year before this. We got crushed this year by two of our biggest threats being injured in Ball and Hayward. Then add losing Miles which creates shots for others because of the attention he draft and it hurt us this year. Adding Cliff doesn't help either. Yes we can get shooting from multiple places and maybe Miller will be a good shooter and be able to do other things. Who knows but if the tape shows flaws we don't have to pick him just because he shot we sometimes in college because we can find shooting other places too.

[Braggins]

I agree the team needs to improve its 3pt shooting, but I don't think that means they have to take Miller over Scoot, or that they should lock themselves into thinking they need a shooter with that specific pick.

I do think the teams lack of shooting is a bit overstated, though, and agree with Fats/BeesWax point about primary shot creation and Cliffords coaching being major factors causing their 3pt shooting issues.

last pre-Clifford season ~ 3pt% (attempts/game)

LaMelo ~ 38.9% (7.5)
Hayward ~ 39.1% (4.1)
Martin ~ 38.4% (2.2)
Rozier ~ 37.4% (8.1)
PJ ~ 36.5% (4.6)
Bridges ~ 33.1% (5.8) (shot 40% the year before)

[JMAC3]

I agree the team needs to improve its 3pt shooting, but I don't think that means they have to take Miller over Scoot, or that they should lock themselves into thinking they need a shooter with that specific pick.

I do think the teams lack of shooting is a bit overstated, though, and agree with Fats/BeesWax point about primary shot creation and Cliffords coaching being major factors causing their 3pt shooting issues.

last pre-Clifford season ~ 3pt% (attempts/game)

LaMelo ~ 38.9% (7.5)
Hayward ~ 39.1% (4.1)
Martin ~ 38.4% (2.2)
Rozier ~ 37.4% (8.1)
PJ ~ 36.5% (4.6)
Bridges ~ 33.1% (5.8) (shot 40% the year before)

LaMelo-Scoot-Miles-PJ-Mark is a pretty awful shooting lineup by NBA standards.

Miles specifically has 4 yrs of data with 3 being 33% and 1 outlier year at 40%, he is avge at best but probably below avg honestly.
Based on what we have seen from Scoot so far, he will be a pretty non-factor in threes and Mark is probably a few years away from adding that to his game.

Plus Terry is our 2nd best shooter now in terms of volume, %, threat to create his own 3 and taking Scoot is going to push him out of the lineup even more if not trade him altogether.

Then add in Martin, DSJ, Richards aren't real threats from outside and could be our main bench pieces. Especially if we don't resign Kelly who is still one of better outside shooting threats.

We clearly need to add guys that are major rotation players that can shoot the ball. Not just some guy that can play 12 mins off the bench with pick 34.

[JDR720]

The point in drafting Miller isn't his 3pt shooting, it's that he can/should/maybe can create his own offence, including shooting.

And that's the risk in drafting him #2. If he can't score vs high level competition, like in college for the most part, you've pretty much spent the #2 pick on a 3&D player.

Like I've said, if we didn't have Melo already Miller would be an easy pick. But we do have Melo and I think drafting another creator to help him out is a better move than drafting a scorer/3pt shooter. Also injury insurance, and Melo wanting to leave insurance.

[JDR720]

LaMelo-Scoot-Miles-PJ-Mark is a pretty awful shooting lineup by NBA standards.

Miles specifically has 4 yrs of data with 3 being 33% and 1 outlier year at 40%, he is avge at best but probably below avg honestly.
Based on what we have seen from Scoot so far, he will be a pretty non-factor in threes and Mark is probably a few years away from adding that to his game.

Plus Terry is our 2nd best shooter now in terms of volume, %, threat to create his own 3 and taking Scoot is going to push him out of the lineup even more if not trade him altogether.

Then add in Martin, DSJ, Richards aren't real threats from outside and could be our main bench pieces. Especially if we don't resign Kelly who is still one of better outside shooting threats.

We clearly need to add guys that are major rotation players that can shoot the ball. Not just some guy that can play 12 mins off the bench with pick 34.

I think a part of the gap between the Scoot/Miller camps is the former is drafting for the future, and the latter is drafting for now.

Right now? Yeah, Miller is a better fit. But we're drafting a 19/20yr old either way.

Odds are, neither will be good next season or even a year from now. We all thought Melo was going to be a bricklayer his first couple seasons, until he wasn't.

Our roster right now, especially guys like PJ, DSJ, Rozier etc. Should have 0 impact on who we draft. If they aren't good fits with Melo, Mark and Scoot/Miller, trade them for someone who is.

[JMAC3]

The point in drafting Miller isn't his 3pt shooting, it's that he can/should/maybe can create his own offence, including shooting.

And that's the risk in drafting him #2. If he can't score vs high level competition, like in college for the most part, you've pretty much spent the #2 pick on a 3&D player.

Like I've said, if we didn't have Melo already Miller would be an easy pick. But we do have Melo and I think drafting another creator to help him out is a better move than drafting a scorer/3pt shooter. Also injury insurance, and Melo wanting to leave insurance.

I also don't think the argument is that he can't score vs good teams. His efficiency just went down.

He still was putting up double digit points even on bad shooting, because he is a scorer, he finds way to get to the free throw line.

Even his worst game probably of the year vs Houston, he still had 8 points on 8 shots. Not a good game by any means, but he still hit 8/9 from free land. Same with one game vs Ark, he shot 3/4 from field but still put up 14 points. Both games they won.

SDSU was an awful game, actually probably his worst, but reports had already came out he was playing through major injury. I guess for draft talk it would have been better if he just sat the tourney out instead of trying to gut through it.

[BeesWax]

I think that leads to the question is he more RJ Barrett like his number suggest against good opponents or would he be more Mikal Bridges like his overall numbers against the others suggest. If he is a chucker on poor percentages that is worrisome but if he can be efficient and provide other things that would be a great get.

I think it comes down to which of these you believe he is as to whether or not he would be a good pick at 2.

[SWedd523]

The point in drafting Miller isn't his 3pt shooting, it's that he can/should/maybe can create his own offence, including shooting.

And that's the risk in drafting him #2. If he can't score vs high level competition, like in college for the most part, you've pretty much spent the #2 pick on a 3&D player.

Like I've said, if we didn't have Melo already Miller would be an easy pick. But we do have Melo and I think drafting another creator to help him out is a better move than drafting a scorer/3pt shooter. Also injury insurance, and Melo wanting to leave insurance.

Yes, absolutely, if he doesn't meet expectations he won't be worth the pick.

Also of note, if Scoot doesn't meet expectations he also wouldn't be worth the pick.

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[yosemiteben]

The point in drafting Miller isn't his 3pt shooting, it's that he can/should/maybe can create his own offence, including shooting.

And that's the risk in drafting him #2. If he can't score vs high level competition, like in college for the most part, you've pretty much spent the #2 pick on a 3&D player.

Like I've said, if we didn't have Melo already Miller would be an easy pick. But we do have Melo and I think drafting another creator to help him out is a better move than drafting a scorer/3pt shooter. Also injury insurance, and Melo wanting to leave insurance.

I also don't think the argument is that he can't score vs good teams. His efficiency just went down.

He still was putting up double digit points even on bad shooting, because he is a scorer, he finds way to get to the free throw line.

It is comical to me that you roast Scoot and then defend Miller as a scorer because he put up "double digit points" on bad efficiency.

[JMAC3]

The point in drafting Miller isn't his 3pt shooting, it's that he can/should/maybe can create his own offence, including shooting.

And that's the risk in drafting him #2. If he can't score vs high level competition, like in college for the most part, you've pretty much spent the #2 pick on a 3&D player.

Like I've said, if we didn't have Melo already Miller would be an easy pick. But we do have Melo and I think drafting another creator to help him out is a better move than drafting a scorer/3pt shooter. Also injury insurance, and Melo wanting to leave insurance.

I also don't think the argument is that he can't score vs good teams. His efficiency just went down.

He still was putting up double digit points even on bad shooting, because he is a scorer, he finds way to get to the free throw line.

It is comical to me that you roast Scoot and then defend Miller as a scorer because he put up "double digit points" on bad efficiency.

Miller has a 7-1 wingpspan, he could be one of the best defenders in the NBA.
He also shot 38% from three as a 20 year old, He could shoot 45% from 3 in the NBA once he improves.
He was the #1 player on the #1 team in the country, his alpha status screams he is going to be a #1 on a title team in the NBA.
He is friends with allstars Brad Beal and Darius Garland, so he is pretty much a lock to be an allstar too.

That is the Brandon Miller equivalent of what is being said about Scoot.
Has tools to be elite defender, will improve shooting, has alpha mentality, knows NBA Allstars....

That is comical to me, I haven't said anything close to any of this for Miller. Yet when I call out the Scoot equivalents, I am deemed a hater.

All I said is when his shot isn't falling he finds other ways to score. Most of the time from free throw line. Hence my comments specifically about Houston and Arkansas games.

[yosemiteben]

I get that you think Scoot fans are too biased. You just seem to be overcompensating in your bias for Miller.

[JMAC3]

I get that you think Scoot fans are too biased. You just seem to be overcompensating in your bias for Miller.

I really don't think I have said anything too wild about Miller this entire time. (the last post obviously exaggerating).

I think he continues to be a good shooter, not projecting him to lead league in shooting.
I think he continues to be a solid defender, not projecting him to be all nba def player.
I think he has shown he can play winning basketball, not projecting him to change our culture because he has "IT".

Yet, I see people constantly assume Scoot improves shooting, has the tools to be a POA defender out of nowhere and that his work ethic and knowing Steph are some sort of superpower.

I have fully admitted to Miller struggles at times. Just pointing out he typically figures out a way to put up points and help his team win. Even when he has an off night. Getting to the Free Throw line is what usually makes a good scorer great in the NBA, he is already showing that capability, that is my main point.

Would I have loved to see him bust Jarace Walker for 40? of course but Houston and SDSU were good teams. One was in the title and the other was in the convo for best team all year I am sure plenty of guys had their struggles vs them.

[fatlever]

Best guess on where Paul signs?
Lakers, Clippers, Pelicans. That's my top 3 guesses.
Longshot, Spurs.

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