The Bismack Biyombo Thread II

[Braggins]

It really surprises me that many people are seriously dismissing Biz's impact last season. I know he finished the year on a down note and that is probably what a lot of people are remembering, but for the first 2/3 of the year he was our 3rd best player, and arguably 2nd best during his pre-injury stint as a starter. Now some people act like he was a drag on the team and that hes obsolete now because of Spencer freaking Hawes.

It really surprises me that many people are seriously embellishing Biz's impact last season. I know he had s couple of good games last year and that is probably what a lot of people are remembering, but for 7/8 of the year he was one of our worst players, and arguably 2nd worst. Now some people act like he was a star on the team and that hes irreplaceable now because of Reasons that can't be explained.


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Youre delusional if you really think that. I'm sorry.

Kemba, MKG, Zeller, and Biz were basically the only people that were on the team from day one and positively contributed to the team winning games last season at any point. Biz was at worst the 4th best player on the team last season, unless you want to count Mo.

[EwingSweatsALot]

For all this talk about how dominant a defender Biz is and how terrible Al is, I was surprised to learn that Biz was only a -2.8 per 100 possessions on D and Al was only +1.3.

I'm curious what his advanced stats and splits look like during the stretch you guys went 9-4 with him as a starter. I remember reading an article about how Biyombo made Charlotte one of the best defensive teams in the league during the span.

Not counting the game he got injured and played 7 minutes.

25.8 mpg, 7.3 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 1.7 bpg


I went back and found some interesting stuff from around this time.

JDM3
"On the season we have given up 99.5 ppg and over the last five with Biz we are at 94.4 ppg. The 99.5 number includes these last 5 as well."

catch22
"For the season our offensive rating has been 103.9 with Biz on the floor and 97.1 with Al on the floor."

BizGilWalker
Paraphrasing here. He posted a chart that showed individual +/- for everyone on the team up until mid-January. Biz had the best at +52. MKG was second at +21. Everyone else on the team was negative. Al was at -150, which came in last by a big margin. Also, at the time, Biz was 2nd in block percentage (behind Rudy Gobert), 7th in rebounding percentage (behind Andre Drummond, DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Omer Asik, DeMarcus Cousins and Zach Randolph), and 11th in field-goal percentage (behind Brandan Wright, DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Rudy Gobert, Ed Davis, James Johnson, Tyler Zeller, Mason Plumlee, Dwight Howard and Amir Johnson).

I'll end on a quote from Popovich from after the game where we almost beat them and Biz put up 12, 15, and 5, in 29 minutes.

“I thought he was a monster,” Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich said. “He’s so strong, so athletic, so young. We just didn’t have anybody. We were talking about gang rebounding — it didn’t matter. He was too much of an athlete for us.”

I'll add onto the stats portion of this. I looked at the same games. Just at Biz in particular and the opponents we played and how he faired in +/- versus the teams point differential.

We went 8-4 and the teams we lost to we should have lost to no matter who was playing. Cavs x2, Hou and SAS. Win% of 66.2%.

The teams we beat we should have beat except one of the NOP or TOR games. We won both. On back to back and traveling between. That was impressive. Those teams winning %s were 40.7%. Not great but we won more than we should have with him starting.

In all the games our PD was 2.2 while Biz's +/- was 2.3. So he definitely was on the plus side of the team when it came to contributing to our record. Comes to 107.7% of the teams PD.

In the wins he was an 8.1 to the teams 11.6, 69.9%. The losses he was a -9.3 while the team was -16.8, 55.2%.

I don't know where I'm really going with this, tends to happen a lot when I just start doing ****, but I do believe it means something. He contributed more to our wins and less to our losses. I'd have to look at the other players to get a baseline but I'm sure he's in the top half of players who played those games. It's all relative. If your team wins by 20 and a guy was a +7. Is it better than a guy that was a +4 when his team won by 5? I mean in one instance yeah you can say a guy contributed more but it the other it's well this guy was just better than his teammates. I think it's the latter. I think it has some merit. And I do think it shows Biz in a positive light for this stretch.

Some individual game info for Biz.

His best was probably the TOR game. We won by 8 and he was a +12.

His worst was New Orleans. He was a -12 and we won by 4.

He didn't have a positive in losing games. He did have two negatives in winning games. NOP and ORL.

[Eoghan]

It's OK, they traded the one guy that could pass for Hawes anyway.

[Skin]

Shocked that the Hornets let him become an UFA. I thought about trade scenarios for him during the season. Thought about what the Magic would have to give up in a trade in order to get CHA not to match an offer. Didn't want to overpay him, but thought it might be the only way to get CHA not to match. Now that he's on the open market, I wonder if the Magic are savvy enough to make the move. *crossing fingers*

Does anybody know why CHA did this? I know he's been injured a lot. Is there a hidden story behind that?

[yosemiteben]

It's OK, they traded the one guy that could pass for Hawes anyway.

Batum has put up higher assist numbers the last three years than Lance ever has.

[mrknowitall215]

Does anybody know why CHA did this? I know he's been injured a lot. Is there a hidden story behind that?

Liquidating assets. The front office basically gave up on his progress in which I happened to believe was coming along. He fared as at least a average NBA player this past season based on overall player efficiency, and was only getting better. Theoretically, I think Biyombo was a sacrifice to make sense of the other moves they've made, including trading for Spencer Hawes and drafting Frank Kaminsky

Also, Biyombo hasn't been injured much. That wasn't a concern

[tondi123]

Does anybody know why CHA did this? I know he's been injured a lot. Is there a hidden story behind that?

Liquidating assets. The front office basically gave up on his progress in which I happened to believe was coming along. He fared as at least a average NBA player this past season based on overall player efficiency, and was only getting better. Theoretically, I think Biyombo was a sacrifice to make sense of the other moves they've made, including trading for Spencer Hawes and drafting Frank Kaminsky

Also, Biyombo hasn't been injured much. That wasn't a concern

The way it was handled it almost makes it sound like the team wasn't happy with his attitude or something. Maybe one too many offseason trips to Africa instead of practicing with his teammates. Who knows.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Shocked that the Hornets let him become an UFA. I thought about trade scenarios for him during the season. Thought about what the Magic would have to give up in a trade in order to get CHA not to match an offer. Didn't want to overpay him, but thought it might be the only way to get CHA not to match. Now that he's on the open market, I wonder if the Magic are savvy enough to make the move. *crossing fingers*

Does anybody know why CHA did this? I know he's been injured a lot. Is there a hidden story behind that?

He really hasn't been injured much.

Keeping Biz restricted at his $9.7m cap hold would've nullified or reduced our exceptions for a guy who really isn't gonna play much. Meanwhile, we'd have a huge need at PG with only the taxpayer's MLE to get one.

I think they decided the full MLE, Bi-An, and a shot at keeping Mo was better than just a 5th/6th big and a reduced MLE to find a backup PG and wing.

[Braggins]

I wish our system and team weren't so pathetically fragile and we could have kept Lance. Think about it, if we wouldn't have done that trade for Hawes then we likely would have kept Biz, and we would have a possibly refocused Lance as our backup SF instead of Marv or PJ. We could have worked out some other way to get Lamb because the price was so cheap and drafting Frank would look a lot better in this scenario.

Kemba/MLE/Roberts
Batum/Lamb/Daniels
MKG/Lance/Hairston
Zeller/Frank/Marv
Al/Biz

I would feel so much better about the Batum trade and the draft if this is what we ended up with. I still can't for the life of me understand how the complete direction we actually went is what management decided on.

[MasterIchiro]

Shocked that the Hornets let him become an UFA. I thought about trade scenarios for him during the season. Thought about what the Magic would have to give up in a trade in order to get CHA not to match an offer. Didn't want to overpay him, but thought it might be the only way to get CHA not to match. Now that he's on the open market, I wonder if the Magic are savvy enough to make the move. *crossing fingers*

Does anybody know why CHA did this? I know he's been injured a lot. Is there a hidden story behind that?

He really hasn't been injured much.

Keeping Biz restricted at his $9.7m cap hold would've nullified or reduced our exceptions for a guy who really isn't gonna play much. Meanwhile, we'd have a huge need at PG with only the taxpayer's MLE to get one.

I think they decided the full MLE, Bi-An, and a shot at keeping Mo was better than just a 5th/6th big and a reduced MLE to find a backup PG and wing.

Do they want to keep Mo?

[BlackOutBuzz]

Shocked that the Hornets let him become an UFA. I thought about trade scenarios for him during the season. Thought about what the Magic would have to give up in a trade in order to get CHA not to match an offer. Didn't want to overpay him, but thought it might be the only way to get CHA not to match. Now that he's on the open market, I wonder if the Magic are savvy enough to make the move. *crossing fingers*

Does anybody know why CHA did this? I know he's been injured a lot. Is there a hidden story behind that?

He really hasn't been injured much.

Keeping Biz restricted at his $9.7m cap hold would've nullified or reduced our exceptions for a guy who really isn't gonna play much. Meanwhile, we'd have a huge need at PG with only the taxpayer's MLE to get one.

I think they decided the full MLE, Bi-An, and a shot at keeping Mo was better than just a 5th/6th big and a reduced MLE to find a backup PG and wing.

Do they want to keep Mo?

Man I hope so, I have no idea though. At least with Mo you have his rights and can use the MLE at another position.

[mrknowitall215]

Keeping Biz restricted at his $9.7m cap hold would've nullified or reduced our exceptions for a guy who really isn't gonna play much. Meanwhile, we'd have a huge need at PG with only the taxpayer's MLE to get one.

I think they decided the full MLE, Bi-An, and a shot at keeping Mo was better than just a 5th/6th big and a reduced MLE to find a backup PG and wing.

This is telling, and make sense as to why Biyombo had to go. Cho mismanaged the cap space. I wonder, what if Biyombo would've had a surprise breakthrough season like Hassan Whiteside, would Cho had had the money to retain Biyombo on a contract above $10 million annually? I ask this because it seem as if they weren't prepared for a case in which Biyombo lived up to his draft expectations

[Braggins]

Could we have attached a 2nd round pick to move someone for a player that makes slightly less and regain our full exceptions?

[Kabookalu]

I know there's a lot of backlash against Cho, but I don't know how much can be blamed of him here. As a Raptors fan going through 5 front offices, if there's one thing that I've learned, the GM has less power than you think. They're the ones making all the moves, but they're only enacting out the vision of their bosses. So whatever the owners want, that's what the GM is going to set out to do.

I remember what this place was like in 2011. Things were buzzing in Charlotte in spite of Gerald Wallace's departure. Cho had a plan in place, and your future looked promising with a couple more draft picks. Missed out on Anthony Davis, which would have changed the landscape of the Bobcats, but MKG was a solid player to build on if you could improve his jumper. And then after MKG's rookie season I remember the Bobcats abruptly going into die hard win now mode out of nowhere. It seemed like an odd fluctuation at the time, totally opposite of the flow of the Bobcats 2 seasons prior.

I'm not exactly trying to defend him here, just that I don't think firing him would solve anything if you kept the person that's truly calling all the shots.

[fatlever]

Bismack Biyombo, unrestricted free agent

The Hornets added quite a bit of frontcourt depth even in the days before free agency officially began, which makes you wonder if they know something we don’t know prior to declining to offer Biyombo a below-average qualifying offer of just $5.1 million. Biyombo’s offensive game will always drive a coach to the corner bar, but he has learned to set screens without mauling point guards and acts as a solid defensive force in the paint when his hips are squared and his arms are raised. Even in this quicker, modern game it would seem like he would be a prime candidate to be coveted.

Again, though, there might be something we don’t know.

Where he should sign: Orlando.

Where he’ll probably sign: Los Angeles Lakers.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/your-2015-nba-free-agent-primer-040238775.html

[BlackOutBuzz]

Could we have attached a 2nd round pick to move someone for a player that makes slightly less and regain our full exceptions?

In theory, maybe they were trying hence Cho's "it's close" comment from a week ago.

[JDR720]

Yep, Biz is actually 40.

[Marvel]

[Tweet][/Tweet]

It really surprises me that many people are seriously dismissing Biz's impact last season. I know he finished the year on a down note and that is probably what a lot of people are remembering, but for the first 2/3 of the year he was our 3rd best player, and arguably 2nd best during his pre-injury stint as a starter. Now some people act like he was a drag on the team and that hes obsolete now because of Spencer freaking Hawes.

It really surprises me that many people are seriously embellishing Biz's impact last season. I know he had s couple of good games last year and that is probably what a lot of people are remembering, but for 7/8 of the year he was one of our worst players, and arguably 2nd worst. Now some people act like he was a star on the team and that hes irreplaceable now because of Reasons that can't be explained.


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Speaking of 2nd worst players, Hawes was atrocious for the Clippers even with Blake out he didn't cut the mustard. At least when Al went down Biz stepped in and had an impact on our team performance. Hawes did the exact opposite.

[MasterIchiro]

He really hasn't been injured much.

Keeping Biz restricted at his $9.7m cap hold would've nullified or reduced our exceptions for a guy who really isn't gonna play much. Meanwhile, we'd have a huge need at PG with only the taxpayer's MLE to get one.

I think they decided the full MLE, Bi-An, and a shot at keeping Mo was better than just a 5th/6th big and a reduced MLE to find a backup PG and wing.

Do they want to keep Mo?

Man I hope so, I have no idea though. At least with Mo you have his rights and can use the MLE at another position.

Ohhhh, sweet.

[DY_nasty]

[Tweet][/Tweet]

It really surprises me that many people are seriously dismissing Biz's impact last season. I know he finished the year on a down note and that is probably what a lot of people are remembering, but for the first 2/3 of the year he was our 3rd best player, and arguably 2nd best during his pre-injury stint as a starter. Now some people act like he was a drag on the team and that hes obsolete now because of Spencer freaking Hawes.

It really surprises me that many people are seriously embellishing Biz's impact last season. I know he had s couple of good games last year and that is probably what a lot of people are remembering, but for 7/8 of the year he was one of our worst players, and arguably 2nd worst. Now some people act like he was a star on the team and that hes irreplaceable now because of Reasons that can't be explained.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Speaking of 2nd worst players, Hawes was atrocious for the Clippers even with Blake out he didn't cut the mustard. At least when Al went down Biz stepped in and had an impact on our team performance. Hawes did the exact opposite.

I really don't hold it against Hawes. Doc Rivers managed to get absolutely nothing out of his non-starters all year long. Everyone on the bench really was just out of place and seemingly lost non-stop.