BrandHIM Miller: The Brandon Miller Thread

[Snidely FC]

Would love to be persuaded Miller's BPA because of his stats, not how many forwards the Hornets have under contract.

19/8/2/1/1 on 48/38/86% as a Freshman serving as the #1 option on the best team in the best conference in the country.

Am I wild for saying that's compelling?

I also know his offensive percentages drop like a rock against tougher competition. Why? I haven't seen that answered.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Brandon%20Miller&t=Alabama

Looking at the game log you linked, yes he had two stinkers, against Houston and SDSU, but those are the exceptions not the rule. Against #1 ranked UCONN he scored 18 on 3/6 3 pt shooting. Against top 10 Gonzaga he scored 38 including 6/11 from 3. Against Arkansas he had 14 and was 2/2 from 3. His usage numbers show an alpha offense carrier, not a 3&D catch and shoot guy, on a team that finished #4 in final rankings. We know his coach told us he played injured in the tournament games, including against SDSU.

I've heard this about his numbers plummeting against good competition but if that's based on 2 out of 40 games I find the argument specious.

[wilson115]

19/8/2/1/1 on 48/38/86% as a Freshman serving as the #1 option on the best team in the best conference in the country.

Am I wild for saying that's compelling?

I also know his offensive percentages drop like a rock against tougher competition. Why? I haven't seen that answered.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Brandon%20Miller&t=Alabama

Looking at the game log you linked, yes he had two stinkers, against Houston and SDSU, but those are the exceptions not the rule. Against #1 ranked UCONN he scored 18 on 3/6 3 pt shooting. Against top 10 Gonzaga he scored 38 including 6/11 from 3. Against Arkansas he had 14 and was 2/2 from 3. His usage numbers show an alpha offense carrier, not a 3&D catch and shoot guy, on a team that finished #4 in final rankings. We know his coach told us he played injured in the tournament games, including against SDSU.

I've heard this about his numbers plummeting against good competition but if that's based on 2 out of 40 games I find the argument specious.

I'm seeing he had 19 games against Top 50-ranked teams where his %s dropped to the 30s. I see multiple game logs dating before February and March where his shooting #s read "1--x" or "0--x". Look at Tatum's %s go up against Top 50 opposition.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?t=Duke&year=2017&p=Jayson+Tatum&cbarg=0&psort=OR

[bravor]

Yeah, thats the biggest concern, esp. for a player who is supposed to be a scorer before anything else.

i played half a season of Aussie football with a strained groin, it really affected my acceleration and agility, I can imagine it must have been difficult for him to play like that at the end of the season.

Damn, nobody noticed what Diop mentioned when he talks about Australian fooball. Here is a little sample of this gr8 gentlemen competition !

Watch on YouTube

ps: When you start to look for excuses for a prospect, it does not bode well about how he will show toughness. Even if toughness looks like a myth - or even a bad word for some - here

ps2 : better not mess up with Diop now that you are informed

[BeesWax]

The last time I remember seeing someone who killed when he had an advantage and then shrank when the opener got close to his level of skill was Anthony Bennett. His stats were amazing most of the year but the three times he played borderline NBA caliber opponents head to head they took a nose dive. It worries me that this could be the same case. He crushes guys he has more space against and shrinks away from ones his level. Maybe that's wrong but the last time I remember seeing this about a guy picked so high it didn't pan out.

[KingCat]

Woah folks. Never ask a man what his salary is, a women what her weight is, or a Brandon Miller fan why he shrank vs stronger competition.

To be serious and fair, he did have good games vs Zaga, and some good to passable games vs other top teams... but then I see a 0-8 performance vs Houston. A 5-15 vs Uconn. A 4-21 performance vs UNC.

Like, awesome, he had a 41 point OT performance... but then you remember that was vs a South Carolina team won 11 games all season. The fact that he can drop 31 on teams like Georgia or Vanderblit, but then turn around and look pedestrian if not awful vs teams like Texas A&M and Tennesse gives me real flat-track bully vibes.

Also seeing his advanced age for a freshman kinda reminds me of the Shabazz Muhammad situation. It was revealed that Shabazz was a year older than he was originally believed to be, which explains why he was able to dominate in highschool against "peers" he had a physical advantage over.

Looking back at Miller's highscool film, it is pretty noticeable how much more physically different he is than his competition.

I really want to like him as a pick, but his performance vs stronger competition scares the hell out of me, and can totally see him getting shell shocked when he has to play 82 games vs NBA athletes

[JMAC3]

I have really never seen anyone try to look at this top 50 opponent #s to qualify or disqualify a prospect. Just like this NFL draft I had never heard of anyone stock rising or falling because of S2 Score until this year.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35882261/alabama-brandon-miller-practice-ahead-2nd-round

To be fair, this story of his injury was announced right away. This wasn't one of those 2 weeks after they were eliminated it was announced he was hurt the whole time. Over his last 4 games he shot 13/61 or 21% from the field. I would assume at least 3 of those games were deemed top 50 opponents and really brought his numbers down overall.

All in all though I think he played a tough schedule so I am not going to really nitpick his numbers, Alabama played the 11th toughest schedule in the country and I am happy with his overall numbers, happier with his 18 SEC games (a lot of times guys numbers go down in conference where teams are scouting you more heavily). He already proved he can be a #1 option on an elite team, that is a pretty big deal to me.

[KingCat]

I didn't mention his historically dreadful NCAA performance to be fair to his injury. But honestly his performance in it wasn't too much of an outlier in comparison to his performance vs top teams before the injury.

[LofJ]

We've got a date:

Read on Twitter

[KingCat]

I have really never seen anyone try to look at this top 50 opponent #s to qualify or disqualify a prospect. Just like this NFL draft I had never heard of anyone stock rising or falling because of S2 Score until this year.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35882261/alabama-brandon-miller-practice-ahead-2nd-round

To be fair, this story of his injury was announced right away. This wasn't one of those 2 weeks after they were eliminated it was announced he was hurt the whole time. Over his last 4 games he shot 13/61 or 21% from the field. I would assume at least 3 of those games were deemed top 50 opponents and really brought his numbers down overall.

All in all though I think he played a tough schedule so I am not going to really nitpick his numbers, Alabama played the 11th toughest schedule in the country and I am happy with his overall numbers, happier with his 18 SEC games (a lot of times guys numbers go down in conference where teams are scouting you more heavily). He already proved he can be a #1 option on an elite team, that is a pretty big deal to me.

It's funny how you call some of the excuses for Scoot's cons "crazy" but then turn around and say Miller performed badly vs good competition because it was "tough" and that pointing this out is nitpicking. If top college teams are too tough for Miller, what do you think pro teams will be like for him?

And you mention tough competition...Scoot's been going against tougher competitors since he was 17. Sure he has had some clunkers as well, but not many as egregiously bad as some of Miller's performances.

[JMAC3]

I didn't mention his historically dreadful NCAA performance to be fair to his injury. But honestly his performance in it wasn't too much of an outlier in comparison to his performance vs top teams before the injury.

Yeah I promise it was nowhere near 21% before the injury

[JMAC3]

I have really never seen anyone try to look at this top 50 opponent #s to qualify or disqualify a prospect. Just like this NFL draft I had never heard of anyone stock rising or falling because of S2 Score until this year.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35882261/alabama-brandon-miller-practice-ahead-2nd-round

To be fair, this story of his injury was announced right away. This wasn't one of those 2 weeks after they were eliminated it was announced he was hurt the whole time. Over his last 4 games he shot 13/61 or 21% from the field. I would assume at least 3 of those games were deemed top 50 opponents and really brought his numbers down overall.

All in all though I think he played a tough schedule so I am not going to really nitpick his numbers, Alabama played the 11th toughest schedule in the country and I am happy with his overall numbers, happier with his 18 SEC games (a lot of times guys numbers go down in conference where teams are scouting you more heavily). He already proved he can be a #1 option on an elite team, that is a pretty big deal to me.

It's funny how you call some of the excuses for Scoot's cons "crazy" but then turn around and say Miller performed badly vs good competition because it was "tough" and that pointing this out is nitpicking. If top college teams are too tough for Miller, what do you think pro teams will be like for him?

And you mention tough competition...Scoot's been going against tougher competitors since he was 17. Sure he has had some clunkers as well, but not many as egregiously bad as some of Miller's performances.

Yeah idk what this little rant was about... I said he played the 11th toughest schedule in the country. That is just a fact and he was one of the best players in the country on one of the best teams in the country. I mentioned it was public knowledge he was hurt right away, hence him only playing 19 mins in a blowout in round 1 of tourney. If that is an excuse, sorry I won't bring it up again.

Sidenote: The gleague competition is a joke. The overall players may be more skilled in a vacuum, but there is a reason nobody watches the actual games. The effort and overall style of play is trash basketball.

The intensity and level of competition of any big ten, sec, acc conf game is 4x of a gleague game. Let alone if it is a tourney game or two ranked teams.

[KingCat]

I have really never seen anyone try to look at this top 50 opponent #s to qualify or disqualify a prospect. Just like this NFL draft I had never heard of anyone stock rising or falling because of S2 Score until this year.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35882261/alabama-brandon-miller-practice-ahead-2nd-round

To be fair, this story of his injury was announced right away. This wasn't one of those 2 weeks after they were eliminated it was announced he was hurt the whole time. Over his last 4 games he shot 13/61 or 21% from the field. I would assume at least 3 of those games were deemed top 50 opponents and really brought his numbers down overall.

All in all though I think he played a tough schedule so I am not going to really nitpick his numbers, Alabama played the 11th toughest schedule in the country and I am happy with his overall numbers, happier with his 18 SEC games (a lot of times guys numbers go down in conference where teams are scouting you more heavily). He already proved he can be a #1 option on an elite team, that is a pretty big deal to me.

It's funny how you call some of the excuses for Scoot's cons "crazy" but then turn around and say Miller performed badly vs good competition because it was "tough" and that pointing this out is nitpicking. If top college teams are too tough for Miller, what do you think pro teams will be like for him?

And you mention tough competition...Scoot's been going against tougher competitors since he was 17. Sure he has had some clunkers as well, but not many as egregiously bad as some of Miller's performances.

Yeah idk what this little rant was about... I said he played the 11th toughest schedule in the country. That is just a fact and he was one of the best players in the country on one of the best teams in the country. I mentioned it was public knowledge he was hurt right away, hence him only playing 19 mins in a blowout in round 1 of tourney. If that is an excuse, sorry I won't bring it up again.

Sidenote: The gleague competition is a joke. The overall players may be more skilled in a vacuum, but there is a reason nobody watches the actual games. The effort and overall style of play is trash basketball.

The intensity and level of competition of any big ten, sec, acc conf game is 4x of a gleague game. Let alone if it is a tourney game or two ranked teams.

How am I now just realizing you are a college tradionalist it's all starting to make sense now.

At the end of the day, playing aganist guys who make a living for playing well will bring its own form of intensity.

And again,when looking at Miller vs top level competition, I am not looking at his awful tournament cause of his injury. He has many performances vs top teams that he was just dreadful in and has no injury to excuse it.

The contrast between him aganist some unranked scrubs vs him against legit good teams is prevalent; you can cover your ears and shut your eyes to it all day, but it's still there and it will be noticeable once he is getting shut down by NBA athletes.

[fatlever]

As crap as the swarm are and as lackadaisical as the gleague appears, I would still assume the swarm would steamroll most college teams on any given night, because the swarm are a team of grown ass pros who were all "the man" in college.

The games may not be as intense, but the level of comp is much better. Not sure how that can be disputed. Same goes for top European leagues (although those have comp and intensity)

Apologies if I misunderstood you argument.

High school games can be intense, doesn't mean the comp level is good. I dunno.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[JMAC3]

It's funny how you call some of the excuses for Scoot's cons "crazy" but then turn around and say Miller performed badly vs good competition because it was "tough" and that pointing this out is nitpicking. If top college teams are too tough for Miller, what do you think pro teams will be like for him?

And you mention tough competition...Scoot's been going against tougher competitors since he was 17. Sure he has had some clunkers as well, but not many as egregiously bad as some of Miller's performances.

Yeah idk what this little rant was about... I said he played the 11th toughest schedule in the country. That is just a fact and he was one of the best players in the country on one of the best teams in the country. I mentioned it was public knowledge he was hurt right away, hence him only playing 19 mins in a blowout in round 1 of tourney. If that is an excuse, sorry I won't bring it up again.

Sidenote: The gleague competition is a joke. The overall players may be more skilled in a vacuum, but there is a reason nobody watches the actual games. The effort and overall style of play is trash basketball.

The intensity and level of competition of any big ten, sec, acc conf game is 4x of a gleague game. Let alone if it is a tourney game or two ranked teams.

How am I now just realizing you are a college tradionalist it's all starting to make sense now.

At the end of the day, playing aganist guys who make a living for playing well will bring its own form of intensity.

And again,when looking at Miller vs top level competition, I am not looking at his awful tournament cause of his injury. He has many performances vs top teams that he was just dreadful in and has no injury to excuse it.

The contrast between him aganist some unranked scrubs vs him against legit good teams is prevalent; you can cover your ears and shut your eyes to it all day, but it's still there and it will be noticeable once he is getting shut down by NBA athletes.

The Gleague guys are definitely trying to score for sure. Other than that the game is awful, no defense. How many gleague games have you watched?

[fatlever]

"Miller's camp says it is hoping he can do enough on his June 10 visit in Charlotte to convince the Hornets to give him assurances they'll pick him at this spot, something that might hinge more on how he performs in his interview than his workout. He sat down with 12 teams at the draft combine in Chicago, but arrived holding a legal brief written by his attorneys informing teams that he would not be able to comment on specific details regarding his involvement in the lead-up to the fatal shooting of Jamea Jonae Harris. It's the biggest factor holding him back from being the easy choice at No. 2, as many expect to be the case in Charlotte. Miller's fit with Charlotte's roster looks ideal, and he is considered the front-runner here if he can do enough to alleviate off-court concerns. -- Givony"

ESPN still rolling with the rumors that Miller is Charlotte's guy. "Easy choice at #2" if not for legal issues.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[JMAC3]

As crap as the swarm are and as lackadaisical as the gleague appears, I would still assume the swarm would steamroll most college teams on any given night, because the swarm are a team of grown ass pros who were all "the man" in college.

The games may not be as intense, but the level of comp is much better. Not sure how that can be disputed. Same goes for top European leagues (although those have comp and intensity)

Apologies if I misunderstood you argument.

High school games can be intense, doesn't mean the comp level is good. I dunno.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

The players are better in gleague, better shooters, more skilled. Doesn't mean they are actually trying to play defense or care about winning.

A YMCA mens league is more talented than a JV basketball game. Doesn't mean the guys in the mens league are running, playing defense etc... Yet that same YMCA team would roll that JV team.

[KingCat]

As crap as the swarm are and as lackadaisical as the gleague appears, I would still assume the swarm would steamroll most college teams on any given night, because the swarm are a team of grown ass pros who were all "the man" in college.

The games may not be as intense, but the level of comp is much better. Not sure how that can be disputed. Same goes for top European leagues (although those have comp and intensity)

Apologies if I misunderstood you argument.

High school games can be intense, doesn't mean the comp level is good. I dunno.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

The players are better in gleague, better shooters, more skilled. Doesn't mean they are actually trying to play defense or care about winning.

A YMCA mens league is more talented than a JV basketball game. Doesn't mean the guys in the mens league are running, playing defense etc... Yet that same YMCA team would roll that JV team.

This is an atrocious analogy. Guys in the G League are still getting paid to perform well. Also, while it isn't the NBA, G league players know that there are still many hungry ball players that would love to nab their spot the moment they start slipping.

G League isn't just some "for fun league". These guys are still professionals close to the top of the industry.

[SWedd523]

I have really never seen anyone try to look at this top 50 opponent #s to qualify or disqualify a prospect. Just like this NFL draft I had never heard of anyone stock rising or falling because of S2 Score until this year.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35882261/alabama-brandon-miller-practice-ahead-2nd-round

To be fair, this story of his injury was announced right away. This wasn't one of those 2 weeks after they were eliminated it was announced he was hurt the whole time. Over his last 4 games he shot 13/61 or 21% from the field. I would assume at least 3 of those games were deemed top 50 opponents and really brought his numbers down overall.

All in all though I think he played a tough schedule so I am not going to really nitpick his numbers, Alabama played the 11th toughest schedule in the country and I am happy with his overall numbers, happier with his 18 SEC games (a lot of times guys numbers go down in conference where teams are scouting you more heavily). He already proved he can be a #1 option on an elite team, that is a pretty big deal to me.

It's funny how you call some of the excuses for Scoot's cons "crazy" but then turn around and say Miller performed badly vs good competition because it was "tough" and that pointing this out is nitpicking. If top college teams are too tough for Miller, what do you think pro teams will be like for him?

And you mention tough competition...Scoot's been going against tougher competitors since he was 17. Sure he has had some clunkers as well, but not many as egregiously bad as some of Miller's performances.

I'm curious who played against more first round draft picks (and projected).

"Scoot played in a professional league against better competition"

But I'm seeing a lot of undrafted guys, bust, and young relegated dudes who can't get minutes. Not many guys teams are clamoring over

Looking at the Ignite Roster

John Jenkins-23rd pick in 2012, peaked as a rookie scoring 6.1 ppg. Waived, has bounced around to like 14 different teams across 4 continents

Leonard Miller-projected to be a mid first this year. averaged 18/10/2 on better splits than Scoot across the board

Eric Mika- undrafted

Cameron Young-undrafted

Sidy Cissoko-projected to be a mid first this year. averaged 12/3/3

London Johnson-another young guy, doesn't seem to be projected in any mocks I'm seeing. averaged 10/2/3

Mojave King-another young guy projected to be a late first to second rounder. averaged 10/4/1

Aubrey Dawkins-undrafted


Solid mix of guys in his age group with no real professional experience, a few dudes who never made the league, and one guy who was cut before his rookie deal was over.

"Professional league"

[JMAC3]

Scoot Henderson was the #7 ranked player in his class. I highly doubt the Gleague is turning guys down to play in it over college.

The thought that Anthony Black, Miller or Jarace Walker couldn't put up numbers in the gleague is wild to me. We see 2nd round draft picks dominate vs gleague competion in their rookie years over and over again. It is very rare an actual NBA draft pick go to the gleague and not do well.

Kai Jones, Mark Williams, Dwane Bacon, McGowens literally torch the gleague anytime they go down.

[KingCat]

I have really never seen anyone try to look at this top 50 opponent #s to qualify or disqualify a prospect. Just like this NFL draft I had never heard of anyone stock rising or falling because of S2 Score until this year.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35882261/alabama-brandon-miller-practice-ahead-2nd-round

To be fair, this story of his injury was announced right away. This wasn't one of those 2 weeks after they were eliminated it was announced he was hurt the whole time. Over his last 4 games he shot 13/61 or 21% from the field. I would assume at least 3 of those games were deemed top 50 opponents and really brought his numbers down overall.

All in all though I think he played a tough schedule so I am not going to really nitpick his numbers, Alabama played the 11th toughest schedule in the country and I am happy with his overall numbers, happier with his 18 SEC games (a lot of times guys numbers go down in conference where teams are scouting you more heavily). He already proved he can be a #1 option on an elite team, that is a pretty big deal to me.

It's funny how you call some of the excuses for Scoot's cons "crazy" but then turn around and say Miller performed badly vs good competition because it was "tough" and that pointing this out is nitpicking. If top college teams are too tough for Miller, what do you think pro teams will be like for him?

And you mention tough competition...Scoot's been going against tougher competitors since he was 17. Sure he has had some clunkers as well, but not many as egregiously bad as some of Miller's performances.

I'm curious who played against more first round draft picks (and projected).

"Scoot played in a professional league against better competition"

But I'm seeing a lot of undrafted guys, bust, and young relegated dudes who can't get minutes. Not many guys teams are clamoring over

Looking at the Ignite Roster

John Jenkins-23rd pick in 2012, peaked as a rookie scoring 6.1 ppg. Waived, has bounced around to like 14 different teams across 4 continents

Leonard Miller-projected to be a mid first this year. averaged 18/10/2 on better splits than Scoot across the board

Eric Mika- undrafted

Cameron Young-undrafted

Sidy Cissoko-projected to be a mid first this year. averaged 12/3/3

London Johnson-another young guy, doesn't seem to be projected in any mocks I'm seeing. averaged 10/2/3

Mojave King-another young guy projected to be a late first to second rounder. averaged 10/4/1

Aubrey Dawkins-undrafted


Solid mix of guys in his age group with no real professional experience, a few dudes who never made the league, and one guy who was cut before his rookie deal was over.

"Professional league"

Blud trying to say G League isn't professional when it is by the very definition

participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs

A large majority of the competitors and average college athlete plays aganist will never be good enough to get paid to play.