Charlotte Hornets - The Brand Returns!!!

[fatlever]

The TNT broadcast of Parish's record breaking Hornets game when he surpassed Kareem. 42 yo Chief gets the honorary starting nod.

This Hornets team, in the midst of a semi re-build right after dealing Zo was hopelessly outmatched having the misfortune of running into the best team in NBA history, Jordan and the eventual 72-10 Bulls. Too bad they cut the majority of the Hornet's player intros out, they put the Bobcats openings to shame, especially the White Zombie Intrumental they used in the final few years.

At one point the annoucer indicates that this was Charlotte's 313th consecutive sellout (in an arena that seated over 23k no less).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8iCdjvpZ6k[/youtube]

that was so mean to post this game. i was looking forward to watching some vintage hornets and i cut this clip on only to see the hornets get outscored 17-0 to start the game. it felt like the bobcats. i totally remember this game. i cant remember what happened after the 17-0 start and i didnt stick around to find out this time.

that was a team in transition, between the LJ, Zo, Gill/Hawkins, Muggsy, Dell team and the Rice, Mason, Divac team. kenny anderson was awful as a hornet.

[dmutombo321]

Fats - you gave up too early - they actually got outscored 20-0 to start the game.

Definitely not their best showing but we can take solace in the fact that the beating came at the hands of the best NBA team in the history of the game. I only posted because Dave mentioned Chief.

Imagine what those 72-10 Bulls would have done to any of these Bobcats teams.

I fast forwarded to the end and briefly watched Darren Hancock, George Zidek, Donald Royal and Anthony Goldwire ply their trade during garbage time.

Here's a more upbeat game representative of how damn good the Hornets were the following season after dumping Kenny Anderson and adding Mase/Divac: their road contest vs. Chicago when Charlotte posted 54 wins. That Rice/Mason/Divac team played well enough to nearly beat the Bulls at the United Center (a feat I dont think any other team accomplished that year) but the GOAT came through for Chicago at the buzzer.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4qZH018_Fo[/youtube]

[Eoghan]

The Rice/Mason/Divac team was my favorite Hornets squad. Rice breaking the record for most 3s in an All Star game was probably my proudest moment as a fan.

[Stun704]

how would u rank these cores?

lj/zo/muggsy

rice/divac/mason

baron/mashburn/pj brown

felton/crash/okafor

kemba/davis/biyombo

[fatlever]

how would u rank these cores?

lj/zo/muggsy

rice/divac/mason

baron/mashburn/pj brown

felton/crash/okafor

kemba/davis/biyombo

best or favorite?

best
1. baron, wesley, mashburn (eddie jones), pj brown, campbell... bench: coleman, robinson, phills, davis, miller (this team never got a true chance to really gel due to phills death, so much size and speed combined on the same team, deepest team next to portland at the time)
2. muggsy, gill, newman, johnson, mourning... bench: curry, gattison, wingate (this squad had the most potential and was probably my favorite to watch. damn lj's bad back, damn it to hell)
3. muggsy, smith, rice, mason, divac... bench: curry, pierce, gieger

[dmutombo321]

^

Just in terms of the cores you mentioned:

1) Rice/Divac/Mason - Rice was a 26ppg scorer, Divac was an extremely above average center who was also a crafty scorer and Mason was a defensive tank who wrote the book on the hydrib point-forward spot. That team had no PG (Muggsy's knee was shot and he was on the downside of his career) and still managed 54 wins. And 54 wins in the mid 90s East meant alot more than it does today when being a .500 ball club gets you an 8th seed. Back then, you had 6 teams in the east with 54 wins or more including teams like the heat and bulls north of 60.

2)Baron/Mash/PJ Brown - That squad was one game away from the Eastern conference finals in 01. Mashburn was one of the most under-rated players in the league and represented the prototypical under valued asset that I wish the Bobcats would target today. His numbers were modest with the Heat only because his usage was down and he was defering to Zo/Tim as a third option. Once he was given the reigns to be the man in Charlotte, he had allstar worthy seasons including multiple 50 point games. He had supreme court vision, shot creating and ball handling skills. He could have averaged 30 a game had he not been so unselfish. He put up 26 a game when they swept the Heat in 01 playoffs. We all know the type of career Baron had in his prime when he was younger, a top 3 PG. PJ Brown's 9-9-1 numbers were modest but he was a lock down 4/5 post defender. Its telling the Boston tried to lure him out of retirement a couple years ago at 40 years of age.

3)LJ/Zo/Muggsy - Potential wise, this combo could have been #1. We only got to see a couple season's of LJ in his Prime before back injuries transformed him into a still effective but no longer elite/explosive below the rim player. Pre-Injury, he was every bit a young Charles Barkley. The Dallas ISOs they ran for LJ at end game situations were always memorable. Zo is one of the top 15-20 Centers to ever play the game and will be HOF someday. Despite his heart, Muggsy was never an elite PG. The final year that group was together, they were a 50 win team.

_____

these last two groups represent a huge drop off from the Hornets cores because they lack any go-to scorers.

4) Felton / Wallace/ Okafor - Felton and Okafor were servicable albeit non-allstar type players while Wallace was a fringe allstar hustle player.

5) Kemba / Davis / Biyombo - I've always maintained that Walker has a future in this league but will never be an elite PG. This season has done nothing to suggest otherwise. His playmaking is admittedly better than expected but still nothing to write home about and his atrotious FG% is even worse than Adam Morrison's. Biyombo has a looooonnnng way to go but I think he can still become 11/11/3. Brow is going to have a great career but he is far more Marcus Camby than he is Kevin Garnett. All of his points come on cuts and put backs and he has exhibited no ability to consistantly score on ISO post ups. That said, he is an elite defender/rebounder and is clearly a no brainer for top pick and will be a great first step in a long rebuild. We'll still need a potential go-to allstar scorer type and I would look long at hard at offering big $ to Harden in an effort to pry him from OKC.

[BigSlam]

For those of you sprouting the "history" angle as your soapbox: you should have respect for the history of the Bobcats too. Dont be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath water.

The only name change I would be comfortable with would be to the Flight - and that would ONLY be on the condition that the name change came with a colour scheme change and that colour scheme was black, silver, white and gold ala Vady or Wake or Purdue etc.

Other wise - Bobcats 4 life suckas.

[Stun704]

For those of you sprouting the "history" angle as your soapbox: you should have respect for the history of the Bobcats too. Dont be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath water.

The only name change I would be comfortable with would be to the Flight - and that would ONLY be on the condition that the name change came with a colour scheme change and that colour scheme was black, silver, white and gold ala Vady or Wake or Purdue etc.

Other wise - Bobcats 4 life suckas.

respect for what history exactly?

[Eoghan]

For those of you sprouting the "history" angle as your soapbox: you should have respect for the history of the Bobcats too. Dont be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath water.

The only name change I would be comfortable with would be to the Flight - and that would ONLY be on the condition that the name change came with a colour scheme change and that colour scheme was black, silver, white and gold ala Vady or Wake or Purdue etc.

Other wise - Bobcats 4 life suckas.

respect for what history exactly?

I guess the first minority owner in sports, good old Bob Johnson. Other than that... *crickets*

[JGib23]

For those of you sprouting the "history" angle as your soapbox: you should have respect for the history of the Bobcats too. Dont be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath water.

The only name change I would be comfortable with would be to the Flight - and that would ONLY be on the condition that the name change came with a colour scheme change and that colour scheme was black, silver, white and gold ala Vady or Wake or Purdue etc.

Other wise - Bobcats 4 life suckas.

respect for what history exactly?

I guess the first minority owner in sports, good old Bob Johnson. Other than that... *crickets*

That's not entirely accurate.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-10/ ... jor-league

[Rich4114]

Most people outside of NBA fans or Bobcats fans don't even realize the Bobcats are a team. They all in fact still think the Hornets play in Charlotte actually. And it's been almost a decade! Just put the Hornets name back where it belongs as if we never lost the team to begin with.

As for those Hornets teams, the Rice/Mason/Divac squad was special. They really just couldn't get past the Chicago Bulls machine. That Jordan buzzer beater says it all. Nobody was beating the Bulls in that era. The Jazz and Sonics would've easily won championships in todays NBA but they too ran into the Bulls.

Put that 97 Hornets team in today's NBA and they would be bigger and stronger than almost every team. Right up there with OKC, Chicago, Miami if they were here in 2012.

However, that Mashburn/Davis/PJ Brown/Magliore team was the best. Baron began hitting his peak right before the playoffs when they dominated Miami who was heavily favored. They basically had the Bucks DONE and fell apart the 2nd half of game six. What a shame because I think they could've beaten the Sixers that year and went right into the finals. Could have changed the whole situation of the franchise really.

Bobcats are way far off. Every single one of those teams was built by the legend known as Bob Bass who was able to make two superstar draft picks with LJ and Zo and extend that value for over a decade. The one giant mistake he made was turning Kobe Bryant into Divac. A good move at the time because it made them an immediate contender while giving up an unproven highschool kid. But damn, Kobe in Charlotte attracting all of the top talent? That would've been something.

[HornetJail]

Didn't Kobe refuse to play for the Hornets or something like that? As much as I hate Kobe now, that would've been pretty nice.

[Rich4114]

Didn't Kobe refuse to play for the Hornets or something like that? As much as I hate Kobe now, that would've been pretty nice.

That was just bs rumors by his agent. He knew LA was going to generate way more money for him than Charlotte would. At the end of the day Kobe would've played for the Hornets. In fact, he even said he would've somewhat recently when the topic came up.

Now would he have been here his whole career? That's another story. But even if he wasn't, imagine what he would've netted in a trade by the time he was a superstar.

[dmutombo321]

Good posts Rich.

Bass was a genius as a GM. Even the Kobe for Divac deal which in retrospect looks absurd was a good deal at the time. Nobody had any clue Bryant was going to be as good as he was as evidenced by the fact that 12 other teams passed on him when we selected him #13.

After HOFers like Shaq, Zo, Ewing, Mutombo, Hakeem and Robinson - Divac was arguably the most talented center in the league at the time and normally wouldnt have been available for a 13th overall pick. Bass leveraged the Lakers' need to free up cap space to sign Shaq that summer and got the deal done.

Flipping Johnson for Anthony Mason the same offseason was also was brilliant. It was not a popular decision at the time as Johnson, despite his back injuries was still a 20ppg player widely liked by the fans. But Bass saw the writing on the wall, knew LJ was about the experience further decline and dealt him when he still had value. Johnson went on the average 12/6 for NY the following year while Mason gave the Hornets 16.5 points/11.5 rebs/6assists.

Bass pulled off the same feat with Glen Rice before he started declining, dealing him to the Lakers for Eddie Jones (19ppg allstar 2 guard at the time) AND Elden Campbell a very good starting center.

Then when Eddie Jones was demanding Max $, which was more than he was worth, instead of overpaying him as we did with Okafor, Charlotte shipped Jones to Miami for an undervalued Jamal Mashburn who signed an extension for $30+ million less than what Jones got paid and turned out to be an even better player.

Had Bass been running the Bobcats, he would have moved Wallace a season or two earlier when he still had peak value and we would have received a hell of alot more than the 2 late first rounders and cast off pieces that we ended up getting.

[Battery]

Good posts Rich.

Bass was a genius as a GM. Even the Kobe for Divac deal which in retrospect looks absurd was a good deal at the time. Nobody had any clue Bryant was going to be as good as he was as evidenced by the fact that 12 other teams passed on him when we selected him #13.

12 teams did not "pass" on Kobe. That was a very strong draft at the top. Then came the Nets at 8 and were all set to take Kobe until his agent said not happening. The Nets, like every other team before the Hornets picked did not want to risk taking someone who did not want to play for them. All those teams knew he wanted to be a Laker and knew what the Lakers were offering for Kobe. So it was either select a young promising player in a strong draft or take Kobe and trade him to the Lakers for veteran Divac who was coming off a so-so season. The Nets REALLY wanted Kobe and were going to chance it, but in the end they decided to go with the safe choice in Kittles, instead of taking angry Kobe. But Kobe would have been a Net had he agreed to it.

The Hornets knew Kobe would never play for them and drafted him because they viewed Vlade as being better than what they could get in the draft. Obviously looking back now, they should not have made the deal because some great players went right after Kobe. But to say that all those teams passed on him is inaccurate because they knew he didn't want to play for them. He was always going to be a Laker.

[fatlever]

the rice. mason, divac team had one fatal flaw which kept them from being elite and that was the lack of a point guard. by that time, muggsy was running on fumes due to his knees. muggsy was in and out of the lineup and was even more of a liability on that team which was more halfcourt oriented. there was nobody behind muggsy who was worth a crap. all which led to mason basically playing pg.

[dmutombo321]

12 teams did not "pass" on Kobe. That was a very strong draft at the top. Then came the Nets at 8 and were all set to take Kobe until his agent said not happening. The Nets, like every other team before the Hornets picked did not want to risk taking someone who did not want to play for them. All those teams knew he wanted to be a Laker and knew what the Lakers were offering for Kobe. So it was either select a young promising player in a strong draft or take Kobe and trade him to the Lakers for veteran Divac who was coming off a so-so season. The Nets REALLY wanted Kobe and were going to chance it, but in the end they decided to go with the safe choice in Kittles, instead of taking angry Kobe. But Kobe would have been a Net had he agreed to it.

The Hornets knew Kobe would never play for them and drafted him because they viewed Vlade as being better than what they could get in the draft. Obviously looking back now, they should not have made the deal because some great players went right after Kobe. But to say that all those teams passed on him is inaccurate because they knew he didn't want to play for them. He was always going to be a Laker.

By definition, 12 teams did pass on Kobe because he was taken 13th overall.

Yes, it was a strong draft class and Yes I do recall NJ's interest in Bryant and his threats to not report if picked. His camp's intention was to make sure he dropped to Charlotte at 13 so the pre-arranged Divac deal could be executed.

The bottom line though is that nobody -and I mean nobody- Bass nor anyone else had any idea how good Bryant was going to be and that, above all else is what allowed him to drop. If GM's in 96' could have looked in a crystal ball and knew what we know now, each of the 12 teams before Charlotte would have selected him -threats or no threats- and dealt with the implications later.

Incidently, his hometown Sixers had the first pick that year.

[dmutombo321]

the rice. mason, divac team had one fatal flaw which kept them from being elite and that was the lack of a point guard. by that time, muggsy was running on fumes due to his knees. muggsy was in and out of the lineup and was even more of a liability on that team which was more halfcourt oriented. there was nobody behind muggsy who was worth a crap. all which led to mason basically playing pg.

Its a shame Wesley wasnt available to be signed a year earlier or they could have featured him at the point instead of Bogues. Wesley a dueable physical defender and was a deadeye shooter and would have punished opponents who dared to double Mason, Rice or Divac

[fatlever]

wesley is my 2nd favorite hornet behind LJ. always felt he was severely underrated by everyone outside of charlotte.

[Eoghan]

That's not entirely accurate.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-10/ ... jor-league

Didn't read it, that's the Latino dude that bought the MLB team, isn't it? Yeah, I forgot about him.