Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[RealHusky]

I would hope he really never looks at it, seeing as +/- is a an almost useless metric

Maybe so, but anyone with eyes can see Hornets play better with Lin on the floor and as a PG. Kemba as the PG sucked horribly today. Kemba/Batum combo was a disaster. Playing a player going 3 for 16 in any NBA game is a disaster, never mine game 7 of an important playoff series. Also, Kemba was getting lit up by Dragic. Lin played great D on Dragic but was sitting on the bench most of the time. That is just horrible coaching period.

Lin is better off finding a team that gives him more consistent role. No way he deserve only 19 mins today and Clifford blows hard as a coach today. Hornets would have been better leaving Batum at home.

MVP for the Heat today: Steve Clifford

once jeremy can knock down his 3s, he has more of a reason to stay on the court. i think once miami took away the paint in games 6 and 7, you see jeremys minutes went down. its not so much that clifford doesnt trust jeremy as much as clifford doesnt trust jeremys shot and i cant say i blame him here.

Then Clifford is an idiot. Any player going 3 for 16 has NO BUSINESS on any NBA court, never mind game 7 of a playoff series. If not Lin, they should have sit Kemba. That's what a good coach should do and Clifford is not a good coach. He caters to Kemba and Batum with both suck today.

[2k15]

Maybe so, but anyone with eyes can see Hornets play better with Lin on the floor and as a PG. Kemba as the PG sucked horribly today. Kemba/Batum combo was a disaster. Playing a player going 3 for 16 in any NBA game is a disaster, never mine game 7 of an important playoff series. Also, Kemba was getting lit up by Dragic. Lin played great D on Dragic but was sitting on the bench most of the time. That is just horrible coaching period.

Lin is better off finding a team that gives him more consistent role. No way he deserve only 19 mins today and Clifford blows hard as a coach today. Hornets would have been better leaving Batum at home.

MVP for the Heat today: Steve Clifford

once jeremy can knock down his 3s, he has more of a reason to stay on the court. i think once miami took away the paint in games 6 and 7, you see jeremys minutes went down. its not so much that clifford doesnt trust jeremy as much as clifford doesnt trust jeremys shot and i cant say i blame him here.

Then Clifford is an idiot. Any player going 3 for 16 has NO BUSINESS on any NBA court, never mind game 7 of a playoff series. If not Lin, they should have sit Kemba. That's what a good coach should do and Clifford is not a good coach. He caters to Kemba and Batum with both suck today.

well...im sure if i dig hard enough i can find a horrible shooting game for kobe bryant too. statement is a little hyperbolic. he went with the guys he trusted, and the guys who for the most part have performed in the regular season.

but yes, i think maybe we shouldve gone small since our bigs cant rebound worth **** anyways.

[TurnDownForWatt]

I have a hard time believing Lin will be on the Hornets next season. I am sure they would love to retain him but he would be a bench player with less than 25 mpg. I also think it depends if Batum and Lee re-sign. His minutes dropped when they traded for Lee.

He'll get a starting gig somewhere. I expect the Nets and Mavericks to be the biggest suitors.

[fatlever]

Lets not turn this into a bash Kemba thread (@RealHusky).

[Alpha 001]

Lets not turn this into a bash Kemba thread (@RealHusky).

Edit-they compliment each other, possibly Hornets version of Portland duo.

[RealHusky]

Lets not turn this into a bash Kemba thread (@RealHusky).

I don't blame this on Kemba. I blame it on Clifford. Kemba played with huge heart in all of his games. He is a rhythm player and he can go hot and cold at an instant. He is not a true PG. He never was one and never will be. He is a great scorer and a guy who can really handle the ball. His defense is lacking due to his size and he got lit up today by Dragic. Not putting Lin on Dragic and mirror his minutes all game was a HUGE HUGE fail. I blame this game on Clifford. He is a bad coach who is clueless about adjustments. He kept Kemba on Dragic even though Kemba was getting owned. Dragic played 32 mins today. Lin should have played at minimal 32 mins today mirroring Dragic. That was one of the major reasons why Hornets lost today. The other is keeping Batum on the floor for 29 mins. Batum should have 5 mins today if that. He was worthless on the court and actually slowed any offense flow. Signing Batum to max would be a huge mistake. The guy is at best 3rd or 4th option on a playoff team. Also, stick to Kemba at PG with LIn or not will not bring Hornets any further than first round of the playoff. Did you know Kemba was blocked 23 times by 7 different Heat players this series?

Playing players to their strength and protect their weaknesses are things a good coach should do. Clifford failed miserably at that. He is clueless about in game adjustment. Spo coached circles around him today.

[kastuul]

Obviously, Kemba is their cornerstone.
It's no way to replace him by Lin. Lin is a temporary backup.
I fully understand.

Without Batum's injury, Lin wouldn't have chance to contribute.
I don't like them put Big AI and Lin in the 2nd lineup. They don't fit with each other.

Anyway, look at Lamb's situation, Lin has earned a lot this season.

[CobraCommander]

once jeremy can knock down his 3s, he has more of a reason to stay on the court. i think once miami took away the paint in games 6 and 7, you see jeremys minutes went down. its not so much that clifford doesnt trust jeremy as much as clifford doesnt trust jeremys shot and i cant say i blame him here.

Then Clifford is an idiot. Any player going 3 for 16 has NO BUSINESS on any NBA court, never mind game 7 of a playoff series. If not Lin, they should have sit Kemba. That's what a good coach should do and Clifford is not a good coach. He caters to Kemba and Batum with both suck today.

well...im sure if i dig hard enough i can find a horrible shooting game for kobe bryant too. statement is a little hyperbolic. he went with the guys he trusted, and the guys who for the most part have performed in the regular season.

but yes, i think maybe we shouldve gone small since our bigs cant rebound worth **** anyways.

And this is why real basketball fans that are Lin fans can't have conversations with LIN ONLY Fans. There is NO WAY CLIFFORD KEEPS his job if he sits Kemba down early in this game and plays the offense through Lin. Lin was struggling on defense and there is no way you can bank on Lin getting hot enough to bring the team back...when you know Kemba can get hot like he did LAST GAME and give you 37 with 14 in a quarter while the defense was trying to contain him. You can't blame Lin for losing this game because he is a role player. This L is on Kemba, Batum and Jefferson because those are the 3 guys that this team depends on night in and night out. What ever Lin does is a bonus...especially in a game 7. Lin had 9 points...nothing to be pissed off about and nothing to write home about. Anyone watching that game that thinks if Lin played all 48 minutes it would have made a difference in the outcome wasn't watching the same game I watched. The Heat were locked in and unfortunately the Heat got off to such a fast start that the Hornets didn't even have time to catch there breath...and by the time Lin got in...the game was barely in doubt. You will notice that Wade was extremely physical with Lin...essentially daring the refs to not make a call.

[RealHusky]

Then Clifford is an idiot. Any player going 3 for 16 has NO BUSINESS on any NBA court, never mind game 7 of a playoff series. If not Lin, they should have sit Kemba. That's what a good coach should do and Clifford is not a good coach. He caters to Kemba and Batum with both suck today.

well...im sure if i dig hard enough i can find a horrible shooting game for kobe bryant too. statement is a little hyperbolic. he went with the guys he trusted, and the guys who for the most part have performed in the regular season.

but yes, i think maybe we shouldve gone small since our bigs cant rebound worth **** anyways.

And this is why real basketball fans that are Lin fans can't have conversations with LIN ONLY Fans. There is NO WAY CLIFFORD KEEPS his job if he sits Kemba down early in this game and plays the offense through Lin. Lin was struggling on defense and there is no way you can bank on Lin getting hot enough to bring the team back...when you know Kemba can get hot like he did LAST GAME and give you 37 with 14 in a quarter while the defense was trying to contain him. You can't blame Lin for losing this game because he is a role player. This L is on Kemba, Batum and Jefferson because those are the 3 guys that this team depends on night in and night out. What ever Lin does is a bonus...especially in a game 7. Lin had 9 points...nothing to be pissed off about and nothing to write home about. Anyone watching that game that thinks if Lin played all 48 minutes it would have made a difference in the outcome wasn't watching the same game I watched. The Heat were locked in and unfortunately the Heat got off to such a fast start that the Hornets didn't even have time to catch there breath...and by the time Lin got in...the game was barely in doubt. You will notice that Wade was extremely physical with Lin...essentially daring the refs to not make a call.

Are we watching the same games? Lin was struggling on D? He was playing Dragic way better than Kemba in this series. Lin is certainly one of the TOP reasons why Hornets was even in game 7 in the first place. Playing him only 19 mins while leaving Kemba on the floor going 3 for 16 is a joke. Batum, Kemba, and Jefferson are cornerstones? You must be s**ting me. None of these guys are any better than Lin or even Lee on this team. They could easily be role players. Team starting Lin with those guys all on the bench would have no different result in most games. Other that Kemba iso winning some games on occasion when he is hot, none of these guys should be cornerstone of any team.

[Flip Murray]

well...im sure if i dig hard enough i can find a horrible shooting game for kobe bryant too. statement is a little hyperbolic. he went with the guys he trusted, and the guys who for the most part have performed in the regular season.

but yes, i think maybe we shouldve gone small since our bigs cant rebound worth **** anyways.

And this is why real basketball fans that are Lin fans can't have conversations with LIN ONLY Fans. There is NO WAY CLIFFORD KEEPS his job if he sits Kemba down early in this game and plays the offense through Lin. Lin was struggling on defense and there is no way you can bank on Lin getting hot enough to bring the team back...when you know Kemba can get hot like he did LAST GAME and give you 37 with 14 in a quarter while the defense was trying to contain him. You can't blame Lin for losing this game because he is a role player. This L is on Kemba, Batum and Jefferson because those are the 3 guys that this team depends on night in and night out. What ever Lin does is a bonus...especially in a game 7. Lin had 9 points...nothing to be pissed off about and nothing to write home about. Anyone watching that game that thinks if Lin played all 48 minutes it would have made a difference in the outcome wasn't watching the same game I watched. The Heat were locked in and unfortunately the Heat got off to such a fast start that the Hornets didn't even have time to catch there breath...and by the time Lin got in...the game was barely in doubt. You will notice that Wade was extremely physical with Lin...essentially daring the refs to not make a call.

Are we watching the same games? Lin was struggling on D? He was playing Dragic way better than Kemba in this series. Lin is certainly one of the TOP reasons why Hornets was even in game 7 in the first place. Playing him only 19 mins while leaving Kemba on the floor going 3 for 16 is a joke. Batum, Kemba, and Jefferson are cornerstones? You must be s**ting me. None of these guys are any better than Lin or even Lee on this team. They could easily be role players. Team starting Lin with those guys all on the bench would have no different result in most games. Other that Kemba iso winning some games on occasion when he is hot, none of these guys should be cornerstone of any team.

How many non-role players are there in the league in your mind? 15? 20? Is there even enough for every team to get a non-role player?

[steady]

Game 7 was always going to be tough to win no matter who played. Getting to Game 7 with an injured Batum was miraculous. Hornets had a great season this year. A lot to be very proud about

[JohnStockton]

I thought Jeremy had a great performance today. Played to his best abilities in the limited opportunities he was given. Looked to attack on every possession when he got the opportunity to initiate at the top of the key. Jumper actually looked good today. Still wish he had post-moves on the few drives where he got to the low-block and had to pass out--but that's nitpicking for his skillset.

DWade slamming a screen into his back during the 4th was technically dirty--but a sign of respect IMO--since there's no reason for Wade to do that on someone he thinks is a scrub. It was a hard message to dissuade Jeremy from potentially going off--and also probably a message of bad blood from all the calls Jeremy has drawn on the Heat this series. Either way, it was a message that an opponent only gives if there's been damage done to them. Somewhere in the action is respect, and it was nice to see Jeremy not back down after the scuffle. Actually wished Courtney would've let them keep jawing. I was thoroughly entertained and wanted to see what would be coming next.

[fatlever]

Lets not turn this into a bash Kemba thread (@RealHusky).

I don't blame this on Kemba. I blame it on Clifford. Kemba played with huge heart in all of his games. He is a rhythm player and he can go hot and cold at an instant. He is not a true PG. He never was one and never will be. He is a great scorer and a guy who can really handle the ball. His defense is lacking due to his size and he got lit up today by Dragic. Not putting Lin on Dragic and mirror his minutes all game was a HUGE HUGE fail. I blame this game on Clifford. He is a bad coach who is clueless about adjustments. He kept Kemba on Dragic even though Kemba was getting owned. Dragic played 32 mins today. Lin should have played at minimal 32 mins today mirroring Dragic. That was one of the major reasons why Hornets lost today. The other is keeping Batum on the floor for 29 mins. Batum should have 5 mins today if that. He was worthless on the court and actually slowed any offense flow. Signing Batum to max would be a huge mistake. The guy is at best 3rd or 4th option on a playoff team. Also, stick to Kemba at PG with LIn or not will not bring Hornets any further than first round of the playoff. Did you know Kemba was blocked 23 times by 7 different Heat players this series?

Playing players to their strength and protect their weaknesses are things a good coach should do. Clifford failed miserably at that. He is clueless about in game adjustment. Spo coached circles around him today.

The Dragic situation was as much to do with having slow rotations behind Kemba as anything. Jefferson was two steps slow to rotate all game. You don't keep guys like Dragic out of the paint by yourself. We did an awful job of helping.

If you think benching Kemba and giving his minutes to Lin is the key to winning this game, then I'm afraid I'm going to get out of this discussion immediately.

Again, don't turn this into a bash Kemba thread (by way of bashing Clifford for playing Kemba - its the same thing).

[Kswiss]

well...im sure if i dig hard enough i can find a horrible shooting game for kobe bryant too. statement is a little hyperbolic. he went with the guys he trusted, and the guys who for the most part have performed in the regular season.

but yes, i think maybe we shouldve gone small since our bigs cant rebound worth **** anyways.

And this is why real basketball fans that are Lin fans can't have conversations with LIN ONLY Fans. There is NO WAY CLIFFORD KEEPS his job if he sits Kemba down early in this game and plays the offense through Lin. Lin was struggling on defense and there is no way you can bank on Lin getting hot enough to bring the team back...when you know Kemba can get hot like he did LAST GAME and give you 37 with 14 in a quarter while the defense was trying to contain him. You can't blame Lin for losing this game because he is a role player. This L is on Kemba, Batum and Jefferson because those are the 3 guys that this team depends on night in and night out. What ever Lin does is a bonus...especially in a game 7. Lin had 9 points...nothing to be pissed off about and nothing to write home about. Anyone watching that game that thinks if Lin played all 48 minutes it would have made a difference in the outcome wasn't watching the same game I watched. The Heat were locked in and unfortunately the Heat got off to such a fast start that the Hornets didn't even have time to catch there breath...and by the time Lin got in...the game was barely in doubt. You will notice that Wade was extremely physical with Lin...essentially daring the refs to not make a call.

Are we watching the same games? Lin was struggling on D? He was playing Dragic way better than Kemba in this series. Lin is certainly one of the TOP reasons why Hornets was even in game 7 in the first place. Playing him only 19 mins while leaving Kemba on the floor going 3 for 16 is a joke. Batum, Kemba, and Jefferson are cornerstones? You must be s**ting me. None of these guys are any better than Lin or even Lee on this team. They could easily be role players. Team starting Lin with those guys all on the bench would have no different result in most games. Other that Kemba iso winning some games on occasion when he is hot, none of these guys should be cornerstone of any team.

I gotta agree with you on that one, in terms of all around game and impact on winning I think it goes Lin, Lee, Kemba, Al and then somewhere way down the order Batum. We didn't win a game with him playing and we didn't lose one without him. Kemba can't stay in front of PG's, Al can't defend the rim, Batum has no game, can't defend, has careless turnovers, Lee is solid but can't create his own shot, and Lin is great on defense and driving/finishing/setting up teammates but his shot is inconsistent at best. Overall we just need our players to improve where possible (in the case of Lin, Lee) or be replaced by starting caliber players

[Flip Murray]

And this is why real basketball fans that are Lin fans can't have conversations with LIN ONLY Fans. There is NO WAY CLIFFORD KEEPS his job if he sits Kemba down early in this game and plays the offense through Lin. Lin was struggling on defense and there is no way you can bank on Lin getting hot enough to bring the team back...when you know Kemba can get hot like he did LAST GAME and give you 37 with 14 in a quarter while the defense was trying to contain him. You can't blame Lin for losing this game because he is a role player. This L is on Kemba, Batum and Jefferson because those are the 3 guys that this team depends on night in and night out. What ever Lin does is a bonus...especially in a game 7. Lin had 9 points...nothing to be pissed off about and nothing to write home about. Anyone watching that game that thinks if Lin played all 48 minutes it would have made a difference in the outcome wasn't watching the same game I watched. The Heat were locked in and unfortunately the Heat got off to such a fast start that the Hornets didn't even have time to catch there breath...and by the time Lin got in...the game was barely in doubt. You will notice that Wade was extremely physical with Lin...essentially daring the refs to not make a call.

Are we watching the same games? Lin was struggling on D? He was playing Dragic way better than Kemba in this series. Lin is certainly one of the TOP reasons why Hornets was even in game 7 in the first place. Playing him only 19 mins while leaving Kemba on the floor going 3 for 16 is a joke. Batum, Kemba, and Jefferson are cornerstones? You must be s**ting me. None of these guys are any better than Lin or even Lee on this team. They could easily be role players. Team starting Lin with those guys all on the bench would have no different result in most games. Other that Kemba iso winning some games on occasion when he is hot, none of these guys should be cornerstone of any team.

I gotta agree with you on that one, in terms of all around game and impact on winning I think it goes Lin, Lee, Kemba, Al and then somewhere way down the order Batum. We didn't win a game with him playing and we didn't lose one without him. Kemba can't stay in front of PG's, Al can't defend the rim, Batum has no game, can't defend, has careless turnovers, Lee is solid but can't create his own shot, and Lin is great on defense and driving/finishing/setting up teammates but his shot is inconsistent at best. Overall we just need our players to improve where possible (in the case of Lin, Lee) or be replaced by starting caliber players

So there's one good player on this team and its jeremy lin. There's one decent player Lee. And everybody else can get ****?

[RealHusky]

So there's one good player on this team and its jeremy lin. There's one decent player Lee. And everybody else can get ****?

You are oversimplifying things. Just because Kemba, Batum, Marvin etc. are starters on this team does not mean they should be cornerstones on a good team. They are starters because Hornets organization decided they are and that's it. These guys should be bench players on a good team. Hornets don't have any superstars. Basketball is also a team sport. You let any decent NBA player, Lin included, shoot 27 times a game, there is a good chance that player will go over 30 each game. Kemba iso ball is fool's gold. I have said it a zillion times long before this game. Hornets will go nowhere with Kemba and Batum as key players whether Lin is here or not. Go ahead and sign Batum to a long term contract. I will come back in a season and see where Hornets will be. I suspect it will be worse than this year.

Jeremy's face when Clifford subbed Daniels with 7 mins left in the 4th is pretty telling. He is gone. Clifford is a horrible game coach and Lin deserves much better than this.

https://twitter.com/KennyDucey/status/726849900827316227

[Flip Murray]

So there's one good player on this team and its jeremy lin. There's one decent player Lee. And everybody else can get ****?

You are oversimplifying things. Just because Kemba, Batum, Marvin etc. are starters on this team does not mean they should be cornerstones on a good team. They are starters because Hornets organization decided they are and that's it. These guys should be bench players on a good team. Hornets don't have any superstars. Basketball is also a team sport. You let any decent NBA player, Lin included, shoot 27 times a game, there is a good chance that player will go over 30 each game. Kemba iso ball is fool's gold. I have said it a zillion times long before this game. Hornets will go nowhere with Kemba and Batum as key players whether Lin is here or not. Go ahead and sign Batum to a long term contract. I will come back in a season and see where Hornets will be. I suspect it will be worse than this year.

Jeremy's face when Clifford subbed Daniels with 7 mins left in the 4th is pretty telling. He is gone. Clifford is a horrible game coach and Lin deserves much better than this.

[img]pic.twitter.com/jM1ukZy58Y[/img]

Newsflash dude we can't magically get cornerstone players. We're Charlotte. We make due with what we can and we've done a pretty god damn good job.

[2k15]

So there's one good player on this team and its jeremy lin. There's one decent player Lee. And everybody else can get ****?

You are oversimplifying things. Just because Kemba, Batum, Marvin etc. are starters on this team does not mean they should be cornerstones on a good team. They are starters because Hornets organization decided they are and that's it. These guys should be bench players on a good team. Hornets don't have any superstars. Basketball is also a team sport. You let any decent NBA player, Lin included, shoot 27 times a game, there is a good chance that player will go over 30 each game. Kemba iso ball is fool's gold. I have said it a zillion times long before this game. Hornets will go nowhere with Kemba and Batum as key players whether Lin is here or not. Go ahead and sign Batum to a long term contract. I will come back in a season and see where Hornets will be. I suspect it will be worse than this year.

Jeremy's face when Clifford subbed Daniels with 7 mins left in the 4th is pretty telling. He is gone. Clifford is a horrible game coach and Lin deserves much better than this.

https://twitter.com/KennyDucey/status/726849900827316227

id never expect this amount of kemba bashing from a uconn fan.

[fatlever]

So there's one good player on this team and its jeremy lin. There's one decent player Lee. And everybody else can get ****?

You are oversimplifying things. Just because Kemba, Batum, Marvin etc. are starters on this team does not mean they should be cornerstones on a good team. They are starters because Hornets organization decided they are and that's it. These guys should be bench players on a good team. Hornets don't have any superstars. Basketball is also a team sport. You let any decent NBA player, Lin included, shoot 27 times a game, there is a good chance that player will go over 30 each game. Kemba iso ball is fool's gold. I have said it a zillion times long before this game. Hornets will go nowhere with Kemba and Batum as key players whether Lin is here or not. Go ahead and sign Batum to a long term contract. I will come back in a season and see where Hornets will be. I suspect it will be worse than this year.

Jeremy's face when Clifford subbed Daniels with 7 mins left in the 4th is pretty telling. He is gone. Clifford is a horrible game coach and Lin deserves much better than this.

https://twitter.com/KennyDucey/status/726849900827316227

I gave you several attempts to change this behavior. Its time for a time out.

[JohnStockton]

The Heat should have run a Dragic/Whiteside PnR every single play after Clifford adjusted to put Jefferson in the starting lineup in Game 3.

In Dragic, you have an elite driving guard--and in Whiteside, an elite rolling big. Pair that combination and then send them off to battle against... Al Jefferson, and it should've been a massacre. It was such a glaring mismatch that I kept expecting the Heat to exploit it, but they never really did. Even posted on the Heat board about it, but alas, they kept running the majority of their offense through Wade, and occasionally Johnson.

Today, they finally abused Al the way they should've, not really because of scheme--but just because Dragic got hot, and so they FINALLY decided to let him initiate. Well, that move eventually just let things unfold naturally, and Al got roasted. You could blame Al for getting roasted, but let's be honest, he couldn't do anything about it even at his best. His shortcomings are what they are. He's slow and can't jump.

Whether Dragic could have actually been contained on PnR when the Heat played him as the initiating guard on the PnR is another question--and straight up--I think the answer is that he can't be contained off the first few dribbles unless you trap him--so whether Kemba or Lin were on him on the PnR, Dragic would be guaranteed to always get good separation after the first few dribbles (3-4 steps).

After those initial steps, Dragic would still be pretty open all the way up until the rim (that's why he had a bunch of pull-up Js in this series regardless of who guarded him). As for where his shots in this series changed, his shot selection was heavily based directly on the size of his defender, because if Dragic was going to the rim against Walker (and his lack of size), then Kemba regularly had no chance to stop or contest Goran if he got deep. Lin, on the other hand, gave up the same open baby J's as Walker, but due to his better straight-line speed, he could recover quicker when beat off the screen, and his size allowed for good late contests against Dragic for the majority of the series. Off the top of my head, I'd say that Lin would get a good contest on Dragic drives about 65% of the time or so--while Kemba could hardly contest at the rim at all. The 65 is a decent rate for just man-on-man recovery--but obviously not ideal overall--but that's why there's help defense.