Little Swaggy: The Kelly Oubre Jr Thread

[JMAC3]

Most of the time Oubre is on the floor with 3+ starters. Your argument that he played with all bench guys and had to shoot just isn't accurate.


That first page is way more than 400 minutes - the first 6 lines gets you up to 400. Kind of a lazy critique there, the lineup data is right there and it is very easy to see who was in them and how much they played. Feels like you're being pretty eyes wide shut on this.

The first 6 lines you say? You argument was he is on the floor with 3+ starters (in bold above)

Hmm line 4 is Harrell, Oubre, Rozier, Bridges and Martin. So three bench guys.

Hmm line 5 Oubre, Martin, Rozier, PJ, Bridges. So again 3 majority of time bench guys.

Hmm line 6 Oubre, Bridges, Martin, McDaniels and Ball. So again bench guys.

So three of the 6 most common lineups had 3 bench guys. Then he has another 200+ lineups that make up 1600 minutes that most of the time include 1 starter maybe 2. So majority of time bench guys he was playing with.

[JMAC3]

57% to be exact

Fair, well it looks like it will be 100% he is a starter this year. Meaning our bench lost another solid contributor the 57% of the time he was used that way.

I am saying we need Oubre to be scorer off the bench. Unless the plan is to have 2 of Rozier, LaMelo and Hayward on the court at all times and three are going to play 40+ mpg every night.

[JMAC3]

Most of the time Oubre is on the floor with 3+ starters. Your argument that he played with all bench guys and had to shoot just isn't accurate.


That first page is way more than 400 minutes - the first 6 lines gets you up to 400. Kind of a lazy critique there, the lineup data is right there and it is very easy to see who was in them and how much they played. Feels like you're being pretty eyes wide shut on this.

The first 6 lines you say? You argument was he is on the floor with 3+ starters (in bold above)

Hmm line 4 is Harrell, Oubre, Rozier, Bridges and Martin. So three bench guys.

Hmm line 5 Oubre, Martin, Rozier, PJ, Bridges. So again 3 majority of time bench guys.

Hmm line 6 Oubre, Bridges, Martin, McDaniels and Ball. So again bench guys.

So three of the 6 most common lineups had 3 bench guys. Then he has another 200+ lineups that make up 1600 minutes that most of the time include 1 starter maybe 2. So majority of time bench guys he was playing with.

Also, I think it is a fair assumption that a good portion of his minutes that he spent with 3 or even 4 starters on the court probably came when he started 13 games this year.

[fatlever]

Most of the time Oubre is on the floor with 3+ starters. Your argument that he played with all bench guys and had to shoot just isn't accurate.


That first page is way more than 400 minutes - the first 6 lines gets you up to 400. Kind of a lazy critique there, the lineup data is right there and it is very easy to see who was in them and how much they played. Feels like you're being pretty eyes wide shut on this.

The first 6 lines you say? You argument was he is on the floor with 3+ starters (in bold above)

Hmm line 4 is Harrell, Oubre, Rozier, Bridges and Martin. So three bench guys.

Hmm line 5 Oubre, Martin, Rozier, PJ, Bridges. So again 3 majority of time bench guys.

Hmm line 6 Oubre, Bridges, Martin, McDaniels and Ball. So again bench guys.

So three of the 6 most common lineups had 3 bench guys. Then he has another 200+ lineups that make up 1600 minutes that most of the time include 1 starter maybe 2. So majority of time bench guys he was playing with.

Are you including oubre himself in the count a 3 bench guys?

Those examples were oubre plus 2 starters, 2 bench.

But more importantly the 2 starters were 2 of our 3 leading scorers, meaning, oubre was, at best, 3rd option on offense. In those examples (ie not someone who needed to carry scoring with green light to hoist bad shots)

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[JMAC3]

Most of the time Oubre is on the floor with 3+ starters. Your argument that he played with all bench guys and had to shoot just isn't accurate.

Are you including oubre himself in the count a 3 bench guys?

Those examples were oubre plus 2 starters, 2 bench.

But more importantly the 2 starters were 2 of our 3 leading scorers, meaning, oubre was, at best, 3rd option on offense. In those examples (ie not someone who needed to carry scoring with green light to hoist bad shots)

Those aren't my examples I am hanging my hat on. Those were examples that Yosemite gave that "most of the time Oubre is on the floor is with 3+ Starters". So I was simply pointing out that he was on the floor with only 2 starters in half of his first 6 lines statement.

Oubre played 26 mpg. It is only logical that some of his minutes he would be sharing the court with starters some of the time. My argument is not "Oubre only plays with bad players all the time....", I am saying I watched plenty of games this year and saw more than enough times where Oubre was on court with one other legitimate offensive threat. In those types of lineups he was more aggressive and probably was forcing shots, but the alternative wasn't much better.

Like this one .K. Oubre Jr., .T. Rozier, .C. Martin, .P. Washington, .J. McDaniels

or this one .M. Plumlee, .K. Oubre Jr., .C. Martin, .J. McDaniels, .L. Ball

Now basically take Miles off the team and we need scoring even more... now assume Hayward is going to miss his normal 30-40 games and guess what we need scoring even moreeeeee.

That is my point, Oubre is needed on the team for his scoring. We will probably be in situations this year where we struggle to score especially if Hayward is out. That is why I am against cutting Oubre, why I am against removing him from rotation, why I am against blaming him for why we were a bad team last year.

[JMAC3]

Even if you wanted to stagger a lineup that included two scorers such as a Rozier, Hayward, Martin, McDaniels, Mark type of lineup you are still basically playing 2 on 5 on offense to some level.

1 poor offensive player is pretty normal. 2 is pushing it. However if you get 3 guys on the court that aren't real threats on offense your team is going to struggle to score the ball.

[fatlever]

lets explore
Rozier, Hayward, Martin, McDaniels, Mark

i assume you'd want to replace cody for oubre here?
1. that still means oubre is 3rd option, not someone who should have a neon green light
2. you just removed the only plus guard/wing defender in that lineup, replaced by the team's worst guard/wing defender. now eith terry or hayward are stuck guarding the other teams primary guard/wing scorer, making them much less effective on offense. so maybe oubre helps replace some offense (only if he gets hot, otherwise he is a net negative on offense) but now much worse defensively

[JMAC3]

lets explore
Rozier, Hayward, Martin, McDaniels, Mark

i assume you'd want to replace cody for oubre here?
1. that still means oubre is 3rd option, not someone who should have a neon green light
2. you just removed the only plus guard/wing defender in that lineup, replaced by the team's worst guard/wing defender. now eith terry or hayward are stuck guarding the other teams primary guard/wing scorer, making them much less effective on offense. so maybe oubre helps replace some offense (only if he gets hot, otherwise he is a net negative on offense) but now much worse defensively

What is McDaniels bringing to this lineup if he isn't a defender? Mark also should be a pretty big improvement as a second unit rim protector compared to an undersized PJ or Harrell on last years team.

[fatlever]

Read on Twitter

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Speaking of Oubre
Yeah, he's been pretty bad in preseason. Does Cliff and Mitch not see it?
I don't think he's a guy that you can also put on the bench if he's out of your rotation. Something tells me he would become a bit of a locker room cancer in that situation.

It was truly baffling that we picked up his player option for this season or didn't find some type of trade partner for him over the summer.

He's clearly never going to figure out how to play passable defense. And it's just not worth keep him around for his random offensive explosions

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[Robot Rock]

He lays enough bricks that transitioning into house-building should be easy.

[fatlever]

Read on Twitter

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Important development happening with Oubre. Hope this trend continues. He's a legit threat when he attacks the paint.

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[HornetJail]

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Important development happening with Oubre. Hope this trend continues. He's a legit threat when he attacks the paint.

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KO playing more level headed defensively too. Still having some lapses, but this is the Oubre I expected to see under Clifford. I was never on board with just cutting him and saving the $6M in the offseason. He's been a useful to good player elsewhere and he may be one here. This is something I'm hoping to see as a trend in Terry when he gets back from his ankle injury. Early returns on his decision making and defense looked better as well. They were the two players that stand to benefit the most from Clifford and I think we're seeing that.

[Diop]

Read on Twitter

Damnit

[Bassman]

This team is cursed.

[JMAC3]

Deadline is still 4+ weeks away, Oubre will be coming back right after, so not sure teams will all of sudden not be interested.

Hornets should probably move one of him or Rozier. If they trade Rozier, I would actually be okay resigning Oubre to another 2 year deal.

[Hornet Mania]

I'd be more bummed if I actually thought Mitch would make a move. I expect us to stand pat on every front.

[Liver_Pooty]

An extended stay with the Hornets is preferable. Being a hired gun for a possible playoff run isn’t an attractive option in his eyes. “I hope they just keep my name out of it,” Kelly Oubre said. “I’m looking for a home somewhere where I can just win, and grow, and continue to perfect my craft and also help this city, help this organization. I love everyone on this team and this staff, so I would love to stay here. I’m from New Orleans. The New Orleans Hornets used to be my favorite team and now I play for the Charlotte Hornets. And it couldn’t come more full circle than that. So, hopefully God has got in His plan for me to stay.”

[JMAC3]

Kelly is probably one of the best 6th man/spot start wings in the league in my opinion. I would love to keep him, you know if you feed him mins he is going to put up numbers more often than not. If we move Rozier, I would give Kelly a 2/30 pretty easily.

[Braggins]

I literally wouldn't resign him for the vet minimum. I don't understand how anyone could watch this team play over the last two years and think hes a good player.

[fatlever]

I literally wouldn't resign him for the vet minimum. I don't understand how anyone could watch this team play over the last two years and think hes a good player.

Same

The random outbursts of points are fun, but you can't build a foundation around that profile. He's a luxury for a team that has everything else and also a strong culture. That's not us. Hard pass at Resigning him.

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