I'm BACKKKKKKKK!!: The Steve Clifford Thread

[BobsBuddy]

How quickly everybody forgets 4 playoff appearances in the last 8 years. I hope Mitch put allot of incentives into Cliffss contract Don't be surprised if we off load Bridges on a sign and trade and bring back some players that started for Cliff over his tenure in Orlando.. I see Ball at 1 and Williams at 5 and 2 3 4 up for grabs. Cliff likes DEFENSE. Thor and Cody are keepers. Don't be surprised if he brings Kemba back on a 1 year FA deal as 3rd point or 6th man. He will keep Hayward and start him at 3 with Oubre as his backup. Some sort of trade for Evan Fourner with the NYKs to start at 2 for us with a signing of Cody to back him up. Rosier could be kept as backup point or 2 unless they can trade him for a stud veteran...This kid Mcgowan maybe a draft sleeper at 6'7" and fast. 4 is wide open. I think PJ has earned the raise and somehow should be kept. Maybe Montezs forfeited contract can be used to sign a vet at 4. Kai Jones is a big ??? Plumlee is a decent backup 5. Bouknight can give us some 3s and finally Mcdaniels deserves a bench roll especially if Hayward goes down again.Put Nick in the wait room and you maybe able to trade Plumlee by mid year Players I would like to see us get through trade or free agency include GSW Otto Porter GSW, Evan Fourt NYK, and Tobias Harris PHILLY on a Bridges sign and trade with Rosier for Seth Curry and Harris.
I just have a good feeling and no it isn't a fart coming on.

[Chapelchilla]

Mitch’s letter talked directly about cliff and player development being important, hopefully they stuck to it. No Maxiell stuff.
Jones, Williams and Thor seem like defense playing hard workers with good attitudes so I hope that they will mesh well with Clifford’s style.
Bouk is screwed unless he comes back from this summer as an adult but I am not expecting him to be all that great at this point.
He better mesh well with Ball though. Guess that’s what the TO is all about!

[JMAC3]

-I just am frustrated it feels like we fired our coach just to settle for someone who great claim to fame is 4 playoff series with 3 /4 being 7th and 8th seeds.

Before Cliff got to Magic they had Vogel.
Vogel went 29-53 first year
25-57 next year, fired.

Cliff first year they went 42-40 and finished 7th seed. Lost to Raptors 4-1. Raps won the ship that year.
Cliff had same core as Vogel did the prev two years. Vuc, Fournier, Aaron Gordon, Ross, Augustin and Issac.

Cliff second year they went 33-40 in Covid season, made the playoffs as 8 seed
Big difference was Markelle was added and averaged 27.7 mpg started 60 games.


Cliff third year they went 21-51, Cliff fired at end of year.
traded Vuc, Aaron Gordon and Fournier half way through year.
Fultz missed most of the year, Cole Anthony averaged 13 ppg as a rookie in 37 starts/47 games.

[Stun704]

:wink: How quickly everybody forgets 4 playoff appearances in the last 8 years. I hope Mitch put allot of incentives into Cliffss contract Don't be surprised if we off load Bridges on a sign and trade and bring back some players that started for Cliff over his tenure in Orlando.. I see Ball at 1 and Williams at 5 and 2 3 4 up for grabs. Cliff likes DEFENSE. Thor and Cody are keepers. Don't be surprised if he brings Kemba back on a 1 year FA deal as 3rd point or 6th man. He will keep Hayward and start him at 3 with Oubre as his backup. Some sort of trade for Evan Fourner with the NYKs to start at 2 for us with a signing of Cody to back him up. Rosier could be kept as backup point or 2 unless they can trade him for a stud veteran...This kid Mcgowan maybe a draft sleeper at 6'7" and fast. 4 is wide open. I think PJ has earned the raise and somehow should be kept. Maybe Montezs forfeited contract can be used to sign a vet at 4. Kai Jones is a big ??? Plumlee is a decent backup 5. Bouknight can give us some 3s and finally Mcdaniels deserves a bench roll especially if Hayward goes down again.Put Nick in the wait room and you maybe able to trade Plumlee by mid year Players I would like to see us get through trade or free agency include GSW Otto Porter GSW, Evan Fourt NYK, and Tobias Harris PHILLY on a Bridges sign and trade with Rosier for Seth Curry and Harris.
I just have a good feeling and no it isn't a fart coming on.

I like the way you think

[Snidely FC]

I feel like the team rostered all this young talent

and then brought in Clifford an ornery Old School disapproving grandfather type re-hired in a fit of public embarrassment by a myopic arrogant Old School owner who thinks you can Old School bring discipline and defense to a group of talented young players who are unlikely to respond well to being groused at between bouts of chest pain and chewed nitroglycerin tablets

as if there were no other eligible candidates who could bring discipline and defense as well as modern NBA ideas and the energy to match a young roster

it makes no sense to me

[yosemiteben]

as if there were no other eligible candidates who could bring discipline and defense as well as modern NBA ideas and the energy to match a young roster

it makes no sense to me

Feels like if you're going to characterize the hire you've got to account for the fact that he wasn't supposed to be the hire

[Snidely FC]

as if there were no other eligible candidates who could bring discipline and defense as well as modern NBA ideas and the energy to match a young roster

it makes no sense to me

Feels like if you're going to characterize the hire you've got to account for the fact that he wasn't supposed to be the hire

Fair enough but they could have pivoted after the Atkinson rim job to one of the qualified assistants on the market

Ima Udoka with no previous head coaching experience just led BOS to the Finals, where he was defeated by Steve Kerr, who won his first title in 2014 with no previous head coaching experience.

Nick Nurse won the title with no previous head coaching experience in 2019. Taylor Jenkins with no previous head coaching experience has sped up the timeline in Memphis. You get the picture.

Pat Riley, who won his first title with no previous head coaching experience, said when he hand picked assistant coach Erik Spoelstra to be his successor, in 2008:

"This game is now about younger coaches who are technologically skilled, innovative, and bring fresh new ideas."

[Robot Rock]

Those coaches also inherited Jayson Tatum, Kawhi Leonard and Dwyane Wade.

[CuseMayne]

Just watched the LOH podcast and Walker's end of podcast take brings up a pretty important macro point:

You essentially cannot argue that Clifford was anywhere in their plans when they fired Borrego. The organization has shown that they aren't properly preparing for these huge decisions...and that's scary for all decision-making going forward.

[fatlever]

No doubt Clifford was never part of the plans or else he would have been included in the initial rounds of interviews. It was purely a panic move. What I would like to know, and I think all the fans would like to know, is why was Dantoni not hired? Was it a philosophical difference related to defense? Was it because we refused to meet his asking price? Or was it because we insisted on controlling who he hired as his assistants? Two of those three options lean towards us being too cheap.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Snidely FC]

Those coaches also inherited Jayson Tatum, Kawhi Leonard and Dwyane Wade.

that's kind of the point

those teams even with superstars didn't limit their hiring to only candidates with previous head coaching experience

even with superstars on board those teams hired first time head coaches

[Robot Rock]

Those coaches also inherited Jayson Tatum, Kawhi Leonard and Dwyane Wade.

that's kind of the point

those teams even with superstars didn't limit their hiring to only candidates with previous head coaching experience

even with superstars on board those teams hired first time head coaches

A coach without previous head coaching experience who inherits Jayson Tatum/Jaylen Brown/Marcus Smart, Kawhi Leonard/Pascal Siakam/Serge Ibaka or Dwyane Wade/Jermaine O'Neal/Michael Beasley is likely to do pretty well, because he inherited Jayson Tatum/Jaylen Brown/Marcus Smart, Kawhi Leonard/Pascal Siakam/Serge Ibaka or Dwyane Wade/Jermaine O'Neal/Michael Beasley.

Any coach with no previous head coaching experience who inherited Al Jefferson/Kemba Walker/Gerald Henderson would do well to even make the first round of the playoffs.

[HornetJail]

Just watched the LOH podcast and Walker's end of podcast take brings up a pretty important macro point:

You essentially cannot argue that Clifford was anywhere in their plans when they fired Borrego. The organization has shown that they aren't properly preparing for these huge decisions...and that's scary for all decision-making going forward.

and that should surprise nobody given how this franchise has been running for the past 15+ years


Both Kupchak and Cho in have had very serious moments where you can just tell they weren't ready to jump on an opportunity.

Cho's big one was the Kaminsky draft when we turned down 4 1sts because we didn't know what to do with them and we just wanted to draft Kaminsky. When there's no-brainer value like that on the table, and there's not a can't-miss prospect on the board, you just take it and work it out later. To come out and say the team wasn't prepared like Cho did after the fact just screamed incompetence, and basically an unwillingness to be flexible. And we see the same thing with Kupchak in different ways.

[yosemiteben]

Just watched the LOH podcast and Walker's end of podcast take brings up a pretty important macro point:

You essentially cannot argue that Clifford was anywhere in their plans when they fired Borrego. The organization has shown that they aren't properly preparing for these huge decisions...and that's scary for all decision-making going forward.

I don't really see that. They did a huge search, were very deliberate in the process, got it down to a list of finalists, then got a commitment for a hire.

When that commitment flaked, they went back to their other finalist and clearly couldn't land him.

I think I'd prefer Cliff rather than doing a complete reboot of a coaching search in the week between the draft and free agency.

I'm not sure how you prepare for something like this, and I don't fault them much for taking a new approach when something unprecedented went down.

Honestly, if not for the awkward optics, I'm not sure I'd prefer MDA to Cliff. I continue to be hugely skeptical that giving a new coaching gig to someone in their mid-70s is a smart business decision.

[HornetJail]

Just watched the LOH podcast and Walker's end of podcast take brings up a pretty important macro point:

You essentially cannot argue that Clifford was anywhere in their plans when they fired Borrego. The organization has shown that they aren't properly preparing for these huge decisions...and that's scary for all decision-making going forward.

I don't really see that. They did a huge search, were very deliberate in the process, got it down to a list of finalists, then got a commitment for a hire.

When that commitment flaked, they went back to their other finalist and clearly couldn't land him.

I think I'd prefer Cliff rather than doing a complete reboot of a coaching search in the week between the draft and free agency.

i would legitimately have no HC for free agency, or promoted an assistant as an interim before going back and hooking up with the ex. Clifford move screams panic move and shows any prospective free agent we have no direction. Luckily the only major FAs we need to bring back are our own, and none of them have suffered the agony of a Clifford offense yet.

[yosemiteben]

Just watched the LOH podcast and Walker's end of podcast take brings up a pretty important macro point:

You essentially cannot argue that Clifford was anywhere in their plans when they fired Borrego. The organization has shown that they aren't properly preparing for these huge decisions...and that's scary for all decision-making going forward.

I don't really see that. They did a huge search, were very deliberate in the process, got it down to a list of finalists, then got a commitment for a hire.

When that commitment flaked, they went back to their other finalist and clearly couldn't land him.

I think I'd prefer Cliff rather than doing a complete reboot of a coaching search in the week between the draft and free agency.

i would legitimately have no HC for free agency, or promoted an assistant as an interim before going back and hooking up with the ex. Clifford move screams panic move and shows any prospective free agent we have no direction. Luckily the only major FAs we need to bring back are our own, and none of them have suffered the agony of a Clifford offense yet.

Again, Cliff's offenses his last 4 seasons on the whole were better than JB's.

I do think it was a bit of a panic move, but I also think that was because we in fact needed to hurry up and hire someone.

[JDR720]

Read on Twitter

[JMAC3]

-I just am frustrated it feels like we fired our coach just to settle for someone who great claim to fame is 4 playoff series with 3 /4 being 7th and 8th seeds.

Before Cliff got to Magic they had Vogel.
Vogel went 29-53 first year
25-57 next year, fired.

Cliff first year they went 42-40 and finished 7th seed. Lost to Raptors 4-1. Raps won the ship that year.
Cliff had same core as Vogel did the prev two years. Vuc, Fournier, Aaron Gordon, Ross, Augustin and Issac.

Cliff second year they went 33-40 in Covid season, made the playoffs as 8 seed
Big difference was Markelle was added and averaged 27.7 mpg started 60 games.


Cliff third year they went 21-51, Cliff fired at end of year.
traded Vuc, Aaron Gordon and Fournier half way through year.
Fultz missed most of the year, Cole Anthony averaged 13 ppg as a rookie in 37 starts/47 games.

I guess long story short, Clifford was trying to develop Fultz, Anthony, Okeke, WCJ and Hampton over his last 2 years with Magic. Bamba on other hand never made it out of the dog house.

[Diop]

i'm just accepting it now and hoping for the best.

i always get naively optimistic every preseason

[yosemiteben]

Bunch of nuggets from Clifford's presser. I'm not posting them because I feel like everyone knows how to get them on twitter and they're all pretty generic anyway.

With that said, talk about random:

Read on Twitter