Kon Air: The Kon Knueppel Thread

[fatlever]

I'm watching this thunder indy series and I'm just thinking who do I think could actually hang on the floor two years from now. I think vj, kon and maybe tre. But as I have mentioned before I'm way more concerned about tre Defensively than I am kon.

[SWedd523]

I think it's a fallacy to you think that just because you're drafting in the top five that you have to go for a home run and choose for someone that you think might be a future all NBA player. I'd say just keep drafting good basketball players and stop trying to shoot for the moon and this team will be in a much better position going forward.

I think that is absolutely the case for a team like Charlotte, picking top 5, again; a team that has never shown the ability nor willingness to be a big player in the trade nor free agency market definitely needs to be swinging for home runs instead of solid doubles.

I also think you're lying to yourself if you think he's a guaranteed double. I don't care how good of a "processor" you think he is, he's facing more of an uphill battle than someone like an Ace or VJ.

I'd also like to see how you reconcile the above with the below post you just made in a different thread:

Regardless, I give him one more year in Charlotte, Max, before he gets his agent involved. Unless, somehow the team clicks and we start winning or unless the team brings in lonzo or another big name. The clock is ticking.

Do you think there's any world where the FO drafts Kon and convinces Melo to extend that proverbial "one more year"? Conventional wisdom would seem to indicate that they need to be trying much harder than a solid double assuming he reaches his ceiling.

[fatlever]

re: star
I'm tired of drafting guys in hopes that one day they become actual good basketball players. For once I want this team to just actually draft a good basketball player. one that actually knows how to dribble pass and shoot. When I actually understands remotely complicated offenses and defenses without needing three years to be screamed at by the coach to set a screen or to pass the ball or to not fall asleep on a backdoor cut. Like I'm just sick of the projects. tiddy broke me. no more kai, thor, vonleh, tiddy swings. No more selfish combo guards an undersized shooting guards who only have value when they are randomly hot.

Just give me somebody who actually can play basketball.

[fatlever]

Regardless, I give him one more year in Charlotte, Max, before he gets his agent involved. Unless, somehow the team clicks and we start winning or unless the team brings in lonzo or another big name. The clock is ticking.

Do you think there's any world where the FO drafts Kon and convinces Melo to extend that proverbial "one more year"? Conventional wisdom would seem to indicate that they need to be trying much harder than a solid double assuming he reaches his ceiling.

I don't think anyone we draft this year is going to move the needle one way or the other on whether or not melo stays. I think all of these guys should be viewed as complementary players. Almost all rookies are usually pretty terrible And rarely contribute to winning basketball.
getting melo help Comes in the form of using the draft picks we have saved up in the future to trade for an actual veteran.

Not trying to totally turn this into a melo thread, As I've said before on other threads I think they need to make a decision by the All Star break whether or not to go for it and build around melo By using some of those future first round picks to get some actual solid NBA players next to him. Or to blow it up and to build around miller And whatever draft picks we get coming back in a trade.

[fatlever]

And I totally get the fear of completely busting again by drafting some slow white college star who was too unathletic or had trex arm to make a difference in the NBA - ammo, frank, zeller... its rough. i get it. The track record of slower white wings in the lottery is pretty terrible In terms of living up to lottery draft position.

And if somebody wants to go for ace then I totally get it. It's very clear to see that if he puts it all together he could be the best player in the draft. And if we draft him I'm not going to be upset in the least. I don't see a lot separating The guys an our draft range. They all have some pretty big holes in their game that need to be fixed. I will be super happy to root for ace if he is our pick. same for tre. i'll be stoked for vj - tho I expect him to have some pretty big growing pains in his first 18 months as he hopefully improves his handles and decision making and finishing.

[JDR720]

The guys in our range have significant flaws one way or another. But Kon is probably the best *basketball player* of the group, in other words, he's the smartest/highest IQ player available.

That alone gives him some merit.

As our last 3 1st round picks (TJ,Kai,Bou) were/are all very bad *basketball players*. Bouknight was halfway asleep every game of his career. Kai was crazy. And TJ is, well, a baby deer.

We can't afford to keep whiffing on these picks. If you told future me that whoever we pick will be a solid double in 2-3 years (I interpret that as good/above average starter) then I'd be pretty happy with that.

[JDR720]

How's Bane as a comp for Kon? Short armed, not great athletes, 3pt shooters etc.

[yosemiteben]

As our last 3 1st round picks (TJ,Kai,Bou) were/are all very bad *basketball players*.

Dude, there were 3 first round draft picks between Salaun and that draft where we took Kai and Bouknight. Miller, NSJ, and Mark.

[SWedd523]

The guys in our range have significant flaws one way or another. But Kon is probably the best *basketball player* of the group, in other words, he's the smartest/highest IQ player available.

That alone gives him some merit.

As our last 3 1st round picks (TJ,Kai,Bou) were/are all very bad *basketball players*. Bouknight was halfway asleep every game of his career. Kai was crazy. And TJ is, well, a baby deer.

We can't afford to keep whiffing on these picks. If you told future me that whoever we pick will be a solid double in 2-3 years (I interpret that as good/above average starter) then I'd be pretty happy with that.

I agree wholeheartedly. That worked well for Ammo, Frank, and Zeller

guys who are just smart *basketball players* who definitely didn't have massive baked in hurdles from Day 1 that they were never able to overcome.

We can play this what about game all day long. Here's what it boils down to though. Do guys with Kon's archetype ever become great players? Do guys with Ace's? VJ? Tre?

Again, this team is trash, has been trash, and will always be trash unless they strike gold in the draft because we know they're A. never going to sign a star and B. nobody is trading stars for guys like Kon.

It's a non starter

[SWedd523]

Do you think there's any world where the FO drafts Kon and convinces Melo to extend that proverbial "one more year"? Conventional wisdom would seem to indicate that they need to be trying much harder than a solid double assuming he reaches his ceiling.

I don't think anyone we draft this year is going to move the needle one way or the other on whether or not melo stays. I think all of these guys should be viewed as complementary players. Almost all rookies are usually pretty terrible And rarely contribute to winning basketball.
getting melo help Comes in the form of using the draft picks we have saved up in the future to trade for an actual veteran.

Not trying to totally turn this into a melo thread, As I've said before on other threads I think they need to make a decision by the All Star break whether or not to go for it and build around melo By using some of those future first round picks to get some actual solid NBA players next to him. Or to blow it up and to build around miller And whatever draft picks we get coming back in a trade.

So then I assume you advocate for trading the pick in a package for someone like a Lauri or leveraging future picks for someone like Harper hoping he can be that guy?

If we're at **** or get off the pot territory (and I agree with you. I totally think we're about half a season of diarrhea basketball away from a giant **** show) then staying pat at 4 is probably the wrong move.

[EmpireFalls]

How's Bane as a comp for Kon? Short armed, not great athletes, 3pt shooters etc.

Bane has a much better handle and can initiate offense at a higher level. Kon isn’t a pure Redick type shooter but Bane is on another level in handles, drives, and athleticism. Knueppel is never going to be “shifty” nor is he ever going to shoulder the heavy creation role Bane has these previous two years. He can do some secondary playmaking and connective passing, but Bane legitimately anchors offensive units for Memphis as their main ball handler.

[yosemiteben]

I agree wholeheartedly. That worked well for Ammo, Frank, and Zeller

guys who are just smart *basketball players* who definitely didn't have massive baked in hurdles from Day 1 that they were never able to overcome.

Kon showed elite, translatable skills as a freshman. He is a completely different tier of prospect compared to those guys.

He's a whole lot more than just a smart basketball player.

[SWedd523]

Ah yes, things like elite free throw shooting.

That's going to translate very well for a guy who is never going to initiate any offense nor ever score in ISO settings. His career 2.8 FTA average is going to be a game changer.

[yosemiteben]

Ah yes, things like elite free throw shooting.

That's going to translate very well for a guy who is never going to initiate any offense nor ever score in ISO settings. His career 2.8 FTA average is going to be a game changer.

Free throw shooting is a proxy for sound mechanics and a replicable shot, which is why it's so encouraging as a sign to scouts.

Was more referring to him shooting at an elite level from 3 on the move. His movement shooting is extremely impressive and massively valuable.

Combine that with his ability to finish inside (64% in half court finishing at the rim) and that's a very promising combination.

Also his stats in the ACC tournament after Flagg got hurt are super impressive and suggest more playmaking skill than he seems to be getting credit for.

I just don't get comparing him to Adam Morrison who played college like 20 years ago and who had nowhere near the production of Kon as a freshman, Frank Kaminsky who pretty much didn't play at all as a freshman, and Cody Zeller who was basically just an effort big.

[SWedd523]

Projecting a short, slow, short armed guy with lack of handle to be a good inside finisher seems like a bit of a reach.

Personally I'm hoping for more than a shorter Duncan Robinson

[SWedd523]

I just don't get comparing him to Adam Morrison who played college like 20 years ago and who had nowhere near the production of Kon as a freshman, Frank Kaminsky who pretty much didn't play at all as a freshman, and Cody Zeller who was basically just an effort big.

The post I quoted was about *basketball players* who are smart, process (whatever that's supposed to tangibly equate to) and play the right way as opposed to the Tiddys, Kais, and Bouknights of the world

If you can't see the connection with the guys I mentioned then you're being disingenuous or obtuse.

[yosemiteben]

Projecting a short, slow, short armed guy with lack of handle to be a good inside finisher seems like a bit of a reach.

As a freshman he objectively was excellent at scoring inside for a guard.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/s/ngCdo0zA1u

[Braggins]

I think he could be efficient at the rim in the NBA assuming he maintains a similar type of shot diet as he had at Duke. The issue I have is that I see a lot of people projecting him to do things that he wasn't really doing often at Duke. I don't think Kon will be efficient at the rim in the NBA trying to play as an on ball creator or trying to isolate people. That is a lot different than scoring at the rim off smart cuts and opportunistic drives created by other players or team offense.

[SWedd523]

I know you don't need me to explain the concept of projecting to the NBA.

I dont believe you actually think he's going to go from scoring well inside against a 17-17 Georgia Tech team that lost in the first round of the NIT to Jacksonville State, a down UNC team that basically played 5 guards the entire season, and Louisville (6-12 in 38min) to being capable of scoring in the lane against NBA athletes. I just don't. That's just silly and contrary to any real world.

If he were taller? Maybe. Longer? Maybe. A better athlete? Maybe. He's on the deficit end of all three of those. He has no physical attributes that indicate he's going to be able to score inside. That's not going to be part of his game and you know it.

[Diop]

The guys in our range have significant flaws one way or another. But Kon is probably the best *basketball player* of the group, in other words, he's the smartest/highest IQ player available.

That alone gives him some merit.

As our last 3 1st round picks (TJ,Kai,Bou) were/are all very bad *basketball players*. Bouknight was halfway asleep every game of his career. Kai was crazy. And TJ is, well, a baby deer.

We can't afford to keep whiffing on these picks. If you told future me that whoever we pick will be a solid double in 2-3 years (I interpret that as good/above average starter) then I'd be pretty happy with that.

I agree wholeheartedly. That worked well for Ammo, Frank, and Zeller

guys who are just smart *basketball players* who definitely didn't have massive baked in hurdles from Day 1 that they were never able to overcome.

We can play this what about game all day long. Here's what it boils down to though. Do guys with Kon's archetype ever become great players? Do guys with Ace's? VJ? Tre?

Again, this team is trash, has been trash, and will always be trash unless they strike gold in the draft because we know they're A. never going to sign a star and B. nobody is trading stars for guys like Kon.

It's a non starter

i dont hate Kon as much as Swedd, but this highlights the problem with that other video that criticised scouts for ignoring "feel".

its not as simple as that, people will always surprise you in both good and bad ways, you take the best educated guess and hope they work out.
Ben Simmons is another excellent example of feel. great passer and defender, looks smart on the basketball until he can't maintain it under the pressure. philly been burnt a few times but saved by Embiid thanks to his physical tools.