Woj: Batum to Charlotte, Vonleh + Gerald to Portland

[yosemiteben]

I think there is a lot of truth to the idea that folks don't like trading Vonleh because he was our hope for a our superstar that we've never had. I think that's a fair sentiment.

But think of the flip side - how many superstars struggle with basic defensive rotations, even when they are young. He played limited minutes for a crappy IU team. He couldn't get in the game when we desperately needed big man depth.

If the FO genuinely didn't have the expectation for him to be an above average starter before they had to decide whether to extend him, I think this is a good move.

[GreenRiddler]

I can give you guys the heads up about Batum though. He will have a great year. Probably no more than 14 ppg, but everything else and more. Can defend PGs SGs and SFs. Excellent passer( Like ridiculous good vision). PnR he needs a big that can roll and he can generate chemistry with so if you guys keep Zeller they can get a 1-2 thing going otherwise you need a big who can roll.

Don't expect great shooting though, he had as bad a year shooting as I have seen from a big time starter who can't create shots and whose best shot is the 3. He is a career 36% three point shooter and that is more than 50% of his shots. He doesn't have the handle to take it to the rim and finish, no change of direction, hesitation dribble etc. to get to the basket.

Never developed a mid range pullup game like Afflalo or Henderson have. He just isn't a scorer and probably never will be unless he gets better at getting to the line/rim.

I thought he could be a 16ppg 3rd option if we needed him too but with Wes we never needed that...until Wes went down and Batum just never took shots and when he did it was bad pull up 3s.

You are getting a guy who will improve your wing D and help alleviate your PGs duties as a passer and help them to focus on scoring, so if you have scorers on the wing and you need an Igoudala type wing then he is your guy.

If you want a Parsons type of scorer at Sf who can get you 16/18ppg, well Utah shouldn't have matched that offer sheet you guys gave Hayward, cause that is not Batum.

[Braggins]

I just... hate this franchise... I seriously hope we trade Kemba and MKG tomorrow so I can follow another team.

I even like Batum, but this is so short sighted and pointless. Just like the Hawes trade. It is very clear that our coach, gm, and owner, are all delusional and think we need to be going all in on the Al Jefferson window. Jordan is one of the worst owners ever.

Nothing against you, but I hate post like that. Maybe its just me staying loyal to a team.

I understand. Its all good. I'm just sick of being frustrated and pissed off by this team. Its been nothing but bad times and disappointment since I've been following this team so closely. I've been trying to find an excuse to stop being a fan, but I probably won't because I like some of our players too damn much. Following this team is like being in a **** relationship with someone you care about too much to leave.

[catch20two]

It's called depth. Good depth goes a long way. Just like how Iggy came off the bench in GSW.

Iggy is the biggest talent example, but if you go by money instead there is also Lee off the bench. And then of course they benched Bogut in the finals after he had been a starter all year and important in some earlier playoff series. You can operate that way if your players will buy in.

I agree. I just don't know about this Batum starting SG stuff fresh off a bad year at a position he's never started at from what I've seen. Not totally against it but at least see if it works first and make him earn it.

[Liver_Pooty]

I just... hate this franchise... I seriously hope we trade Kemba and MKG tomorrow so I can follow another team.

I even like Batum, but this is so short sighted and pointless. Just like the Hawes trade. It is very clear that our coach, gm, and owner, are all delusional and think we need to be going all in on the Al Jefferson window. Jordan is one of the worst owners ever.

Its not about the Al Jefferson window. Its about the 2017 All-Star window. MJ is going all in to have a competitive team leading up to the game. Consider this the price we pay to have the All-Star game in Charlotte. It means having a 6-8 seed treadmill playoff team for a couple of years.

I don't think this makes us a treadmill team to be honest. I think we improved immensely. Traded away a young guy, who didn't play anyway and Henderson for Batum, who I think is a fantastic all around player, and we still have our 9th pick on top of it. If Vonleh blows up and turns into a stud this trade will be incredibly stupid, but I have never been high on him, and I don't foresee that happening.

[Liver_Pooty]

I just... hate this franchise... I seriously hope we trade Kemba and MKG tomorrow so I can follow another team.

I even like Batum, but this is so short sighted and pointless. Just like the Hawes trade. It is very clear that our coach, gm, and owner, are all delusional and think we need to be going all in on the Al Jefferson window. Jordan is one of the worst owners ever.

Nothing against you, but I hate post like that. Maybe its just me staying loyal to a team.

I understand. Its all good. I'm just sick of being frustrated and pissed off by this team. Its been nothing but bad times and disappointment since I've been following this team so closely. I've been trying to find an excuse to stop being a fan, but I probably won't because I like some of our players too damn much. Following this team is like being in a **** relationship with someone you care about too much to leave.

lol. that analogy you used about a relationship is spot on. But for once I feel really, really good about this team.

[-Ian-]

I was initially pissed by this trade because I like the potential of Vonleh and Batum is coming off an injury year and have an expiring contract. But having Batum and MKG on the wing is really nice and I hope we can resign Batum. Gerald is a great guy to have on the team but I think he's already at his peak. Best of luck to Noah and Gerald in Portland.

[LofJ]

I just... hate this franchise... I seriously hope we trade Kemba and MKG tomorrow so I can follow another team.

I even like Batum, but this is so short sighted and pointless. Just like the Hawes trade. It is very clear that our coach, gm, and owner, are all delusional and think we need to be going all in on the Al Jefferson window. Jordan is one of the worst owners ever.

Its not about the Al Jefferson window. Its about the 2017 All-Star window. MJ is going all in to have a competitive team leading up to the game. Consider this the price we pay to have the All-Star game in Charlotte. It means having a 6-8 seed treadmill playoff team for a couple of years.

And to have a puncher's chance of convincing Curry to sign with us later that summer. We wouldn't be a treadmill team then.

[catch20two]

I can give you guys the heads up about Batum though. He will have a great year. Probably no more than 14 ppg, but everything else and more. Can defend PGs SGs and SFs. Excellent passer( Like ridiculous good vision). PnR he needs a big that can roll and he can generate chemistry with so if you guys keep Zeller they can get a 1-2 thing going otherwise you need a big who can roll.

Don't expect great shooting though, he had as bad a year shooting as I have seen from a big time starter who can't create shots and whose best shot is the 3. He is a career 36% three point shooter and that is more than 50% of his shots. He doesn't have the handle to take it to the rim and finish, no change of direction, hesitation dribble etc. to get to the basket.

Never developed a mid range pullup game like Afflalo or Henderson have. He just isn't a scorer and probably never will be unless he gets better at getting to the line/rim.

I thought he could be a 16ppg 3rd option if we needed him too but with Wes we never needed that...until Wes went down and Batum just never took shots and when he did it was bad pull up 3s.

You are getting a guy who will improve your wing D and help alleviate your PGs duties as a passer and help them to focus on scoring, so if you have scorers on the wing and you need an Igoudala type wing then he is your guy.

If you want a Parsons type of scorer at Sf who can get you 16/18ppg, well Utah shouldn't have matched that offer sheet you guys gave Hayward, cause that is not Batum.

Thanks Riddler for assuring me that my thoughts about him were correct. How do you feel about him being a SG thru and thru?

[yosemiteben]

(1) I would LOVE to be on a treadmill of 5-6 seed playoff appearances for the next couple of years. I still can't believe people act like that is something that is beneath us.

(2) Vonleh wasn't going to be the difference between us being or not being on a treadmill for a LONG time, and we have lots of other assets to maneuver and decisions to make that could potentially be much more impactful.

[driveandkick]

Batum was supertrash last year. Looked worse than Hendo in any year except his rookie year I guess. I don't understand why we go giving away starting spots to players all willy nilly before training camp that ain't star players.

he was like a thousand times better after the all star break

[Liver_Pooty]

I think there is a lot of truth to the idea that folks don't like trading Vonleh because he was our hope for a our superstar that we've never had. I think that's a fair sentiment.

But think of the flip side - how many superstars struggle with basic defensive rotations, even when they are young. He played limited minutes for a crappy IU team. He couldn't get in the game when we desperately needed big man depth.

If the FO genuinely didn't have the expectation for him to be an above average starter before they had to decide whether to extend him, I think this is a good move.

He honestly wasn't that great at Indiana, had a bad SL, and couldn't crack our rotation over people like Maxiell. I think we cashed in our chips on him and got what we could while we could. I think he will be a good role player, but I don't see star potential, at all.

On a side note I think its absolutely stupid how people think Clifford plays people like Maxiell over Vonleh because Vonleh was a rookie. Coaches want to win games, if you are better than the other guy, you will play, period. I've always hated when people say that.

[catch20two]

Or the guy who has been on average a 37% shooter on over 5 attempts a game over the past 4 years. A hurt wrist will hurt your shooting

Well did he get surgery yet?

His wrist is fine now. Just needed rest.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2015/01/nicolas_batum_says_he_has_had_torn_ligament_in_his.html

It don't work like that. A torn ligament don't heal itself. He'll still have issues with it if it was a legit injury.

[Liver_Pooty]

Well did he get surgery yet?

His wrist is fine now. Just needed rest.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2015/01/nicolas_batum_says_he_has_had_torn_ligament_in_his.html

It don't work like that. A torn ligament don't heal itself. He'll still have issues with it if it was a legit injury.

Well, doctors told him it would heal with rest. I'm not doogie howser, so Ill just leave that kind of stuff to the professionals.

[Dame Lizard]

As a Portland fan I really like Batum as SG in the right system. It just happens that with Kemba and MKG it's light on the shooting front, but heavy certainly heavy on the defensive front.

[Braggins]

Nothing against you, but I hate post like that. Maybe its just me staying loyal to a team.

I understand. Its all good. I'm just sick of being frustrated and pissed off by this team. Its been nothing but bad times and disappointment since I've been following this team so closely. I've been trying to find an excuse to stop being a fan, but I probably won't because I like some of our players too damn much. Following this team is like being in a **** relationship with someone you care about too much to leave.

lol. that analogy you used about a relationship is spot on. But for once I feel really, really good about this team.

I would feel good about next season if we had a different coach or didn't have Al. Any boost Batum will give us is still going to be offset by Hawes/Al lineups.

The main reason I hate this trade is because of Batum coming off a down year and being on the last year of his contract. I expect Batum to play better, but even if he does, I don't think this gets us anything better than a 6th seed and maybe one playoff win, which is about the same as our ceiling before this move. We gave up a talented young prospect for a fairly minimal short term gain and we are probably losing Batum to free agency next year. I think its more than likely that this trade ends up being us just throwing away Vonleh for nothing.

[Liver_Pooty]

I understand. Its all good. I'm just sick of being frustrated and pissed off by this team. Its been nothing but bad times and disappointment since I've been following this team so closely. I've been trying to find an excuse to stop being a fan, but I probably won't because I like some of our players too damn much. Following this team is like being in a **** relationship with someone you care about too much to leave.

lol. that analogy you used about a relationship is spot on. But for once I feel really, really good about this team.

I would feel good about next season if we had a different coach or didn't have Al. Any boost Batum will give us is still going to be offset by Hawes/Al lineups.

The main reason I hate this trade is because of Batum coming off a down year and being on the last year of his contract. I expect Batum to play better, but even if he does, I don't think this gets us anything better than a 6th seed and maybe one playoff win, which is about the same as our ceiling before this move. We gave up a talented young prospect for a fairly minimal short term gain and we are probably losing Batum to free agency next year. I think its more than likely that this trade ends up being us just throwing away Vonleh for nothing.

We have a ton of money to give him if he plays like he should play. Im not worried about losing him at all.

To be honest, I think losing Henderson may end up being worse than losing Vonleh in the long run. I just never saw the potential in him other than an imposing physical specimen for a guy as young as he is.

[catch20two]

Nic can play SG just a fyi. He can play the four in small ball lineups as well, especially probably in the east. I know you guys are mad, I don't think anyone is really happy with the trade on either side, but Nic did have a down year due to fatigue and injury. But his injuries are recovering and he isn't doing as much with France this year. He has good handles, a good three point shooter, can defend four positions (five if the other team is going small too), creates for himself and others and is nice guy.

What's the tape on him playing SG? During what season did he play a lot of SG? I'm tryna get a statistical backing on this because I never viewed him as a SG. It's like tryna squeeze a oval peg in a circled hole to me.

[Liver_Pooty]

People keep bringing up Vonleh, but we lost a valuable player in Henderson. Great locker room guy, and a damn solid player. Thats going under the radar entirely.

[DY_nasty]

People keep bringing up Vonleh, but we lost a valuable player in Henderson. Great locker room guy, and a damn solid player. Thats going under the radar entirely.

Naw, I think a lot of people were just ready for Henderson to go either way.