Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[fatlever]

The Heat should have run a Dragic/Whiteside PnR every single play after Clifford adjusted to put Jefferson in the starting lineup in Game 3.

In Dragic, you have an elite driving guard--and in Whiteside, an elite rolling big. Pair that combination and then send them off to battle against... Al Jefferson, and it should've been a massacre. It was such a glaring mismatch that I kept expecting the Heat to exploit it, but they never really did. Even posted on the Heat board about it, but alas, they kept running the majority of their offense through Wade, and occasionally Johnson.

Today, they finally abused Al the way they should've, not really because of scheme--but just because Dragic got hot, and so they FINALLY decided to let him initiate. Well, that move eventually just let things unfold naturally, and Al got roasted. You could blame Al for getting roasted, but let's be honest, he couldn't do anything about it even at his best. His shortcomings are what they are. He's slow and can't jump.

Whether Dragic could have actually been contained on PnR when the Heat played him as the initiating guard on the PnR is another question--and straight up--I think the answer is that he can't be contained off the first few dribbles unless you trap him--so whether Kemba or Lin were on him on the PnR, Dragic would be guaranteed to always get good separation after the first few dribbles (3-4 steps).

After those initial steps, Dragic would still be pretty open all the way up until the rim (that's why he had a bunch of pull-up Js in this series regardless of who guarded him). As for where his shots in this series changed, his shot selection was heavily based directly on the size of his defender, because if Dragic was going to the rim against Walker (and his lack of size), then Kemba regularly had no chance to stop or contest Goran if he got deep. Lin, on the other hand, gave up the same open baby J's as Walker, but due to his better straight-line speed, he could recover quicker when beat off the screen, and his size allowed for good late contests against Dragic for the majority of the series. Off the top of my head, I'd say that Lin would get a good contest on Dragic drives about 65% of the time or so--while Kemba could hardly contest at the rim at all. The 65 is a decent rate for just man-on-man recovery--but obviously not ideal overall--but that's why there's help defense.

It was only a matter of time before we got burned for playing Jefferson so many minutes. Heat, until today, did not make us pay for that move. Most teams have been going at him relentlessly all season. Al was no where to be found on the Dragic drives because he was either two steps too slow or scared to leave Whiteside.

[2k15]

The Heat should have run a Dragic/Whiteside PnR every single play after Clifford adjusted to put Jefferson in the starting lineup in Game 3.

In Dragic, you have an elite driving guard--and in Whiteside, an elite rolling big. Pair that combination and then send them off to battle against... Al Jefferson, and it should've been a massacre. It was such a glaring mismatch that I kept expecting the Heat to exploit it, but they never really did. Even posted on the Heat board about it, but alas, they kept running the majority of their offense through Wade, and occasionally Johnson.

Today, they finally abused Al the way they should've, not really because of scheme--but just because Dragic got hot, and so they FINALLY decided to let him initiate. Well, that move eventually just let things unfold naturally, and Al got roasted. You could blame Al for getting roasted, but let's be honest, he couldn't do anything about it even at his best. His shortcomings are what they are. He's slow and can't jump.

Whether Dragic could have actually been contained on PnR when the Heat played him as the initiating guard on the PnR is another question--and straight up--I think the answer is that he can't be contained off the first few dribbles unless you trap him--so whether Kemba or Lin were on him on the PnR, Dragic would be guaranteed to always get good separation after the first few dribbles (3-4 steps).

After those initial steps, Dragic would still be pretty open all the way up until the rim (that's why he had a bunch of pull-up Js in this series regardless of who guarded him). As for where his shots in this series changed, his shot selection was heavily based directly on the size of his defender, because if Dragic was going to the rim against Walker (and his lack of size), then Kemba regularly had no chance to stop or contest Goran if he got deep. Lin, on the other hand, gave up the same open baby J's as Walker, but due to his better straight-line speed, he could recover quicker when beat off the screen, and his size allowed for good late contests against Dragic for the majority of the series. Off the top of my head, I'd say that Lin would get a good contest on Dragic drives about 65% of the time or so--while Kemba could hardly contest at the rim at all. The 65 is a decent rate for just man-on-man recovery--but obviously not ideal overall--but that's why there's help defense.

It was only a matter of time before we got burned for playing Jefferson so many minutes. Heat, until today, did not make us pay for that move. Most teams have been going at him relentlessly all season. Al was no where to be found on the Dragic drives because he was either two steps too slow or scared to leave Whiteside.

in theory he should leave whiteside and then you get weakside help from whoever, which is how theyve often played it in this series (which led to some comical whiteside on lin or whiteside on kemba matchups) but this game al just stayed on whiteside, not sure why.

[JohnStockton]

I was really underwhelmed with the coaching in this series on both sides. I was appalled the most by the many blatant (and simple) tactical mistakes, that could have easily been re-thought. The main takeaway I got from this series is that both coaches are very stubborn and slow to adjust. While I do think that Spoelstra and Clifford are two of the best coaches in the league (in terms of getting their teams ready to play), I was tremendously unimpressed by their game-to-game adjustments in this series (only minor tweaks game-to-game). It made me recall the time Spo got destroyed by Carlise's various adjustments in the 2011 Finals. Rick is the man!

Anyway, here's the main things I was shaking my head at during the series:

• Spoelstra's lack of attempt to exploit and humiliate Jefferson on the PnR (by initiating with Dragic).
  
  
• Clifford going away from the two-point guard lineup that won them 3 games.
  
  In that offense, they would have one guard initiate a high PnR beyond the top of the arc, and then if that PnR was covered (or a misdirection) they would swing it to the left wing (For Kemba) or the right wing (for Lin) to set up another PnR. The pace of the game became noticeably faster with the offense being initiated this way, and it really helped to spread out driving lanes, which was the only way the Hornets could score easily in the span of this entire series. Then when Batum came back, Clifford reverted back to initiating the offense via a high Kemba PnR, or a wing-Batum PnR after a long developing curl. The pace became slow, and the space for drives suffered. With no drives, you saw a lot of pull-up jumpers (especially the first two games, and TODAY). They won 0 games with this offense, and it never looked good even in losses.
  
  
• Spoelstra not trying to play cat and mouse by bringing Hassan off the bench (After Game 3), which would have eliminated the Jefferson/Whiteside match-up into the Heat's favor. If Spo would've just shifted Whiteside to the bench, that would've allowed all their guards to attack Jefferson, while keeping Whiteside's fouls in check. It would've also allowed Whiteside to foil Jeremy Lin's drives, thus taking out one of Charlotte's few working weapons. And it would've baited the Hornets into running Alfense with no real payoff (getting Whiteside in foul trouble--and we all saw today what happens when Whiteside actually gets to play a full game free of fouls).
  
  
• Similarly, Clifford not adjusting to make a Jefferson/Whiteside match-up until Game 3. Should've been obvious that this match-up was needed after the first game.
  
  
• The horrible moments when Clifford would continue to play the overmatched Zeller when Whiteside was in the game--or continue to play Jefferson/Frank's slow, slow, slow rotations when Whiteside was out (and the Heat were playing small). Similarly, not playing Zeller as a mobile Center when Whiteside was out, in order to abuse Stoudemire/McBob's immobility on defense, and counter their small-ball.
  
  
• Playing a hobbled Batum on the perimeter when lack of perimeter defense is how you got blown out in all of the losses. Giving hobbled Batum his normal playmaking duties, and making him run curls on a bum ankle, only to initiate a slow moving play--when the only type of successful offense in the series had occurred when the pace was pushed. (I hope this was a political move--as in "We have to keep Batum happy to re-sign him"--otherwise, it reflects extremely poorly on Clifford)

[tyusedney]

feeling sorry for Lin. he really dug us out of a hole only to be benched. lol. how many times have Lin saved us this season and then immediately get benched? the guy even took a huge pay cut to help us out..

we're not worthy

[gafun]

feeling sorry for Lin. he really dug us out of a hole only to be benched. lol. how many times have Lin saved us this season and then immediately get benched? the guy even took a huge pay cut to help us out..

we're not worthy

Too bad, but it is true. Lin did not deserve to sit there and watching team collapse. You could tell he might had a good game after first few mins in the second quarter. Then the coach toke him out for no reason and the game turned south since.

[TurnDownForWatt]

Steve Clifford is new to coaching the NBA, that is why the Hornets lost. He didn't go to Al Jefferson in the post-enough, they also used the wrong players to double Wade in the post. Doubling Wade with Richardson, Dragic, Joe Johnson is just plain stupid especially when Gerald Green and Justice Winslow were out there.

Lin played pretty well but the one thing I noticed about his game in the past years is that he either is super confident and plays well all game or he just plays like a D-Leaguer all night. He was a d-league player in Game 6.

[fafan]

Kemba and Lin have some role confliction or overlap in this team and Cliff couldn't use them correctly. That's why most time only 1 of them can play well. But only 1 player plays well can't guarantee a win. Like game 6, Lin didn't play well and he didn't play last 6 minutes and Kemba can't make the win himself. This 7 game was showing what Hornets like, at least Cliff thought. It seems already give up and pretty happy with 1 round. Don't even know which is the real Hornets should be, game 1,2, 7 or 3,4,5.

[13th Man]

Steve Clifford is new to coaching the NBA, that is why the Hornets lost. He didn't go to Al Jefferson in the post-enough, they also used the wrong players to double Wade in the post. Doubling Wade with Richardson, Dragic, Joe Johnson is just plain stupid especially when Gerald Green and Justice Winslow were out there.

Lin played pretty well but the one thing I noticed about his game in the past years is that he either is super confident and plays well all game or he just plays like a D-Leaguer all night. He was a d-league player in Game 6.

We were a hobbled team and Clifford relied too much on his trusted players from the regular season rather than make the necessary adjustments. Jeremy Lamb should have been used more in this series especially with everybody hobbling around and as well our poor perimeter shooting. Marvin was out of it for most of this series yet continued to log big minutes. Also put too much responsibility on rookie Kaminsky. A hobbled Batum, Cody and the absence of Hawes were huge.

But Game 6 was when the fat lady sang. Cody getting hurt was big, he played great in the first half and barely played in the 2nd. Marvin, Lin and Lee did not show up at all. I believe that Clifford not entrusting Lin in today's game was a reflection and delayed reaction to his game 6 performance. Clifford is a good coach but he's also a knee-jerk or what have you done for me lately kind of coach. There are 3 players that he will always trust; Kemba, Batum and Marvin, otherwise the rest will be on short leashes based on their most recent performances. I hope that today's snub was not an indirect blame for game 6 because nobody else showed up except for Kemba and Al, it wasn't just Lin.

About Lin, this was a valuable learning experience for him. My theory is that his lack of confidence is due to the circumstances of how he came onto the NBA scene being undrafted then having to play behind 3 ball dominant players (Melo, Harden, Kobe), where his former coaches made sure he knew his place in line. Lin was known as a super clutch player in high school and also did well in college despite not getting a D1 scholarship. Because of his late starting NBA career, I believe that he's still learning how to deal with big time pressure but have noticeably have gotten better with every playoff experience. He's still not there yet but I think this playoff experience will be good for him. He shouldn't be ashamed, this was a positive year for him in terms of growth; his one-on-one defense has greatly improved, along with his court awareness and turnover ratio. He'll need to work on that long range shooting of course.

[sutton]

I was really underwhelmed with the coaching in this series on both sides. I was appalled the most by the many blatant (and simple) tactical mistakes, that could have easily been re-thought. The main takeaway I got from this series is that both coaches are very stubborn and slow to adjust. While I do think that Spoelstra and Clifford are two of the best coaches in the league (in terms of getting their teams ready to play), I was tremendously unimpressed by their game-to-game adjustments in this series (only minor tweaks game-to-game). It made me recall the time Spo got destroyed by Carlise's various adjustments in the 2011 Finals. Rick is the man!

Anyway, here's the main things I was shaking my head at during the series:

• Spoelstra's lack of attempt to exploit and humiliate Jefferson on the PnR (by initiating with Dragic).
  
  
• Clifford going away from the two-point guard lineup that won them 3 games.
  
  In that offense, they would have one guard initiate a high PnR beyond the top of the arc, and then if that PnR was covered (or a misdirection) they would swing it to the left wing (For Kemba) or the right wing (for Lin) to set up another PnR. The pace of the game became noticeably faster with the offense being initiated this way, and it really helped to spread out driving lanes, which was the only way the Hornets could score easily in the span of this entire series. Then when Batum came back, Clifford reverted back to initiating the offense via a high Kemba PnR, or a wing-Batum PnR after a long developing curl. The pace became slow, and the space for drives suffered. With no drives, you saw a lot of pull-up jumpers (especially the first two games, and TODAY). They won 0 games with this offense, and it never looked good even in losses.
  
  
• Spoelstra not trying to play cat and mouse by bringing Hassan off the bench (After Game 3), which would have eliminated the Jefferson/Whiteside match-up into the Heat's favor. If Spo would've just shifted Whiteside to the bench, that would've allowed all their guards to attack Jefferson, while keeping Whiteside's fouls in check. It would've also allowed Whiteside to foil Jeremy Lin's drives, thus taking out one of Charlotte's few working weapons. And it would've baited the Hornets into running Alfense with no real payoff (getting Whiteside in foul trouble--and we all saw today what happens when Whiteside actually gets to play a full game free of fouls).
  
  
• Similarly, Clifford not adjusting to make a Jefferson/Whiteside match-up until Game 3. Should've been obvious that this match-up was needed after the first game.
  
  
• The horrible moments when Clifford would continue to play the overmatched Zeller when Whiteside was in the game--or continue to play Jefferson/Frank's slow, slow, slow rotations when Whiteside was out (and the Heat were playing small). Similarly, not playing Zeller as a mobile Center when Whiteside was out, in order to abuse Stoudemire/McBob's immobility on defense, and counter their small-ball.
  
  
• Playing a hobbled Batum on the perimeter when lack of perimeter defense is how you got blown out in all of the losses. Giving hobbled Batum his normal playmaking duties, and making him run curls on a bum ankle, only to initiate a slow moving play--when the only type of successful offense in the series had occurred when the pace was pushed. (I hope this was a political move--as in "We have to keep Batum happy to re-sign him"--otherwise, it reflects extremely poorly on Clifford)

super summary,

[PG13]

I think Lin fans are generally more upset than Hornets fans because Lin fans have higher expectation. For a lot of fans, the Hornets making the playoffs is an accomplishment. Winning a playoff game for the first time in 14 years? Overachieving. Winning 2 in a row? Surreal. Winning 3? It's a miracle. The future is bright.

Lin wanted more. Lin fans wanted more. Lin has already been to the playoffs a few times but never got out of the first round. The Hornets had two shots at getting it done, but couldn't. Huge disappointment. The future is full of uncertainties.

At the end of the day, Lin has given the Hornets everything he has, has helped the team to get to the playoffs, and has been classy throughout. $2.1M well spent. The Hornets have given Lin just enough to show the rest of the league what he can do, whenever an opportunity presented itself.

Free agency begins in 2 months. We'll see what happens then.

[CobraCommander]

well...im sure if i dig hard enough i can find a horrible shooting game for kobe bryant too. statement is a little hyperbolic. he went with the guys he trusted, and the guys who for the most part have performed in the regular season.

but yes, i think maybe we shouldve gone small since our bigs cant rebound worth **** anyways.

And this is why real basketball fans that are Lin fans can't have conversations with LIN ONLY Fans. There is NO WAY CLIFFORD KEEPS his job if he sits Kemba down early in this game and plays the offense through Lin. Lin was struggling on defense and there is no way you can bank on Lin getting hot enough to bring the team back...when you know Kemba can get hot like he did LAST GAME and give you 37 with 14 in a quarter while the defense was trying to contain him. You can't blame Lin for losing this game because he is a role player. This L is on Kemba, Batum and Jefferson because those are the 3 guys that this team depends on night in and night out. What ever Lin does is a bonus...especially in a game 7. Lin had 9 points...nothing to be pissed off about and nothing to write home about. Anyone watching that game that thinks if Lin played all 48 minutes it would have made a difference in the outcome wasn't watching the same game I watched. The Heat were locked in and unfortunately the Heat got off to such a fast start that the Hornets didn't even have time to catch there breath...and by the time Lin got in...the game was barely in doubt. You will notice that Wade was extremely physical with Lin...essentially daring the refs to not make a call.

Are we watching the same games? Lin was struggling on D? He was playing Dragic way better than Kemba in this series. Lin is certainly one of the TOP reasons why Hornets was even in game 7 in the first place. Playing him only 19 mins while leaving Kemba on the floor going 3 for 16 is a joke. Batum, Kemba, and Jefferson are cornerstones? You must be s**ting me. None of these guys are any better than Lin or even Lee on this team. They could easily be role players. Team starting Lin with those guys all on the bench would have no different result in most games. Other that Kemba iso winning some games on occasion when he is hot, none of these guys should be cornerstone of any team.

Not only was he struggling on D, the commentators called it out (Van Gundy) and Wade called for the ball when Lin was on him and Dragic called for the ball while Lin was on him as well.

Like I said, it's not Lins fault that the Hornets lost but you are clearly delusional if you believe Lin is better than Kemba, Batum or Jefferson by any reasonable measure. You are a GSW fan like I am a Wiz fan. I love Lin but I wouldn't take him over my teams starters and I am going to guess that you wouldn't take him over your teams starters either. Lin is what he is, once again he had a below avg game today but it wasn't horrendous. Lin was serviceable with 9 points. Kemba had a HORRIBLE day because he had...9 pts. The expectations for those two players is just different on this team.

Look, I'm not gonna engage in hating on Lin or Kemba. Lin is Kemba's backup as he should be. Clifford isn't horrible because he doesn't start Lin or play Lin 48 minutes a game- Lin a piece in the Hornets 2015/2016 plan...if Lin really wants something different he will make a change in the offseason. But what I suspect is that 4 or 5 different teams in as many years tells you all you need to know about Lin...he is a respectable journeymen. You can hero worship but the truth is Lin had 17 combined points in 2 close out games and no one in their right mind will blame Lin for his overall lack of production in this series.

[tonman]

And this is why real basketball fans that are Lin fans can't have conversations with LIN ONLY Fans. There is NO WAY CLIFFORD KEEPS his job if he sits Kemba down early in this game and plays the offense through Lin. Lin was struggling on defense and there is no way you can bank on Lin getting hot enough to bring the team back...when you know Kemba can get hot like he did LAST GAME and give you 37 with 14 in a quarter while the defense was trying to contain him. You can't blame Lin for losing this game because he is a role player. This L is on Kemba, Batum and Jefferson because those are the 3 guys that this team depends on night in and night out. What ever Lin does is a bonus...especially in a game 7. Lin had 9 points...nothing to be pissed off about and nothing to write home about. Anyone watching that game that thinks if Lin played all 48 minutes it would have made a difference in the outcome wasn't watching the same game I watched. The Heat were locked in and unfortunately the Heat got off to such a fast start that the Hornets didn't even have time to catch there breath...and by the time Lin got in...the game was barely in doubt. You will notice that Wade was extremely physical with Lin...essentially daring the refs to not make a call.

Are we watching the same games? Lin was struggling on D? He was playing Dragic way better than Kemba in this series. Lin is certainly one of the TOP reasons why Hornets was even in game 7 in the first place. Playing him only 19 mins while leaving Kemba on the floor going 3 for 16 is a joke. Batum, Kemba, and Jefferson are cornerstones? You must be s**ting me. None of these guys are any better than Lin or even Lee on this team. They could easily be role players. Team starting Lin with those guys all on the bench would have no different result in most games. Other that Kemba iso winning some games on occasion when he is hot, none of these guys should be cornerstone of any team.

Not only was he struggling on D, the commentators called it out (Van Gundy) and Wade called for the ball when Lin was on him and Dragic called for the ball while Lin was on him as well.

Like I said, it's not Lins fault that the Hornets lost but you are clearly delusional if you believe Lin is better than Kemba, Batum or Jefferson by any reasonable measure. You are a GSW fan like I am a Wiz fan. I love Lin but I wouldn't take him over my teams starters and I am going to guess that you wouldn't take him over your teams starters either. Lin is what he is, once again he had a below avg game today but it wasn't horrendous. Lin was serviceable with 9 points. Kemba had a HORRIBLE day because he had...9 pts. The expectations for those two players is just different on this team.

Look, I'm not gonna engage in hating on Lin or Kemba. Lin is Kemba's backup as he should be. Clifford isn't horrible because he doesn't start Lin or play Lin 48 minutes a game- Lin a piece in the Hornets 2015/2016 plan...if Lin really wants something different he will make a change in the offseason. But what I suspect is that 4 or 5 different teams in as many years tells you all you need to know about Lin...he is a respectable journeymen. You can hero worship but the truth is Lin had 17 combined points in 2 close out games and no one in their right mind will blame Lin for his overall lack of production in this series.

Lin isn't just kemba's backup. He plays both positions. If the game slows down Lin isn't going to be ab,e to guard wade at 6'3. But as I've said many times before if he is going to play off guard on defense you have to take advantage of him on offense. 3&D is not lin.

BTW you do the math he had 9 points in 19 minutes. You asking the so called pack up point guard as you place him to put the team on his shoulders?

[CobraCommander]

Are we watching the same games? Lin was struggling on D? He was playing Dragic way better than Kemba in this series. Lin is certainly one of the TOP reasons why Hornets was even in game 7 in the first place. Playing him only 19 mins while leaving Kemba on the floor going 3 for 16 is a joke. Batum, Kemba, and Jefferson are cornerstones? You must be s**ting me. None of these guys are any better than Lin or even Lee on this team. They could easily be role players. Team starting Lin with those guys all on the bench would have no different result in most games. Other that Kemba iso winning some games on occasion when he is hot, none of these guys should be cornerstone of any team.

Not only was he struggling on D, the commentators called it out (Van Gundy) and Wade called for the ball when Lin was on him and Dragic called for the ball while Lin was on him as well.

Like I said, it's not Lins fault that the Hornets lost but you are clearly delusional if you believe Lin is better than Kemba, Batum or Jefferson by any reasonable measure. You are a GSW fan like I am a Wiz fan. I love Lin but I wouldn't take him over my teams starters and I am going to guess that you wouldn't take him over your teams starters either. Lin is what he is, once again he had a below avg game today but it wasn't horrendous. Lin was serviceable with 9 points. Kemba had a HORRIBLE day because he had...9 pts. The expectations for those two players is just different on this team.

Look, I'm not gonna engage in hating on Lin or Kemba. Lin is Kemba's backup as he should be. Clifford isn't horrible because he doesn't start Lin or play Lin 48 minutes a game- Lin a piece in the Hornets 2015/2016 plan...if Lin really wants something different he will make a change in the offseason. But what I suspect is that 4 or 5 different teams in as many years tells you all you need to know about Lin...he is a respectable journeymen. You can hero worship but the truth is Lin had 17 combined points in 2 close out games and no one in their right mind will blame Lin for his overall lack of production in this series.

Lin isn't just kemba's backup. He plays both positions. If the game slows down Lin isn't going to be ab,e to guard wade at 6'3. But as I've said many times before if he is going to play off guard on defense you have to take advantage of him on offense. 3&D is not lin.

BTW you do the math he had 9 points in 19 minutes. You asking the so called pack up point guard as you place him to put the team on his shoulders?

Lin is a solid back up combo guard. Like I said- I would love to have him as our back up...Tomorrow! I just don't want to put the pressure of winning a game on series on Lin. That's just unrealistic and unfair

[TinmanZBoy]

And this is why real basketball fans that are Lin fans can't have conversations with LIN ONLY Fans. There is NO WAY CLIFFORD KEEPS his job if he sits Kemba down early in this game and plays the offense through Lin. Lin was struggling on defense and there is no way you can bank on Lin getting hot enough to bring the team back...when you know Kemba can get hot like he did LAST GAME and give you 37 with 14 in a quarter while the defense was trying to contain him. You can't blame Lin for losing this game because he is a role player. This L is on Kemba, Batum and Jefferson because those are the 3 guys that this team depends on night in and night out. What ever Lin does is a bonus...especially in a game 7. Lin had 9 points...nothing to be pissed off about and nothing to write home about. Anyone watching that game that thinks if Lin played all 48 minutes it would have made a difference in the outcome wasn't watching the same game I watched. The Heat were locked in and unfortunately the Heat got off to such a fast start that the Hornets didn't even have time to catch there breath...and by the time Lin got in...the game was barely in doubt. You will notice that Wade was extremely physical with Lin...essentially daring the refs to not make a call.

Are we watching the same games? Lin was struggling on D? He was playing Dragic way better than Kemba in this series. Lin is certainly one of the TOP reasons why Hornets was even in game 7 in the first place. Playing him only 19 mins while leaving Kemba on the floor going 3 for 16 is a joke. Batum, Kemba, and Jefferson are cornerstones? You must be s**ting me. None of these guys are any better than Lin or even Lee on this team. They could easily be role players. Team starting Lin with those guys all on the bench would have no different result in most games. Other that Kemba iso winning some games on occasion when he is hot, none of these guys should be cornerstone of any team.

Not only was he struggling on D, the commentators called it out (Van Gundy) and Wade called for the ball when Lin was on him and Dragic called for the ball while Lin was on him as well.
Dragic calling for the ball to go at lin? Other than PnR, he can not play lin one on one, get a grip, man
Dragic can't defend kemba and lin the whole series, they let him off the hook this game

The same JVG praised lin s d on wade in last game...

Like I said, it's not Lins fault that the Hornets lost but you are clearly delusional if you believe Lin is better than Kemba, Batum or Jefferson by any reasonable measure. You are a GSW fan like I am a Wiz fan. I love Lin but I wouldn't take him over my teams starters and I am going to guess that you wouldn't take him over your teams starters either. Lin is what he is, once again he had a below avg game today but it wasn't horrendous. Lin was serviceable with 9 points. Kemba had a HORRIBLE day because he had...9 pts. The expectations for those two players is just different on this team.

Look, I'm not gonna engage in hating on Lin or Kemba. Lin is Kemba's backup as he should be. Clifford isn't horrible because he doesn't start Lin or play Lin 48 minutes a game- Lin a piece in the Hornets 2015/2016 plan...if Lin really wants something different he will make a change in the offseason. But what I suspect is that 4 or 5 different teams in as many years tells you all you need to know about Lin...he is a respectable journeymen. You can hero worship but the truth is Lin had 17 combined points in 2 close out games and no one in their right mind will blame Lin for his overall lack of production in this series.

Lin did an obvious better job on dragic defensively than kemba in this series... U can dig the numbers, it won't be close...u did not watch the whole series...

[uballer]

Not only was he struggling on D, the commentators called it out (Van Gundy) and Wade called for the ball when Lin was on him and Dragic called for the ball while Lin was on him as well.

Like I said, it's not Lins fault that the Hornets lost but you are clearly delusional if you believe Lin is better than Kemba, Batum or Jefferson by any reasonable measure. You are a GSW fan like I am a Wiz fan. I love Lin but I wouldn't take him over my teams starters and I am going to guess that you wouldn't take him over your teams starters either. Lin is what he is, once again he had a below avg game today but it wasn't horrendous. Lin was serviceable with 9 points. Kemba had a HORRIBLE day because he had...9 pts. The expectations for those two players is just different on this team.

Look, I'm not gonna engage in hating on Lin or Kemba. Lin is Kemba's backup as he should be. Clifford isn't horrible because he doesn't start Lin or play Lin 48 minutes a game- Lin a piece in the Hornets 2015/2016 plan...if Lin really wants something different he will make a change in the offseason. But what I suspect is that 4 or 5 different teams in as many years tells you all you need to know about Lin...he is a respectable journeymen. You can hero worship but the truth is Lin had 17 combined points in 2 close out games and no one in their right mind will blame Lin for his overall lack of production in this series.

Lin isn't just kemba's backup. He plays both positions. If the game slows down Lin isn't going to be ab,e to guard wade at 6'3. But as I've said many times before if he is going to play off guard on defense you have to take advantage of him on offense. 3&D is not lin.

BTW you do the math he had 9 points in 19 minutes. You asking the so called pack up point guard as you place him to put the team on his shoulders?

Lin is a solid back up combo guard. Like I said- I would love to have him as our back up...Tomorrow! I just don't want to put the pressure of winning a game on series on Lin. That's just unrealistic and unfair

It is quite obvious that you come to this forum with a non-basketball related agenda.

[tyusedney]

uh, you do NOT want to compare Kemba to Lin while using defense to make your point. LOL
i'm a big fan of Kemba and still am, but defense is not his strong point. Lin can defend the 1,2, and 3 positions
while Kemba couldn't really stay in front of slow Dragic

[steady]

"But what I suspect is that 4 or 5 different teams in as many years tells you all you need to know about Lin...he is a respectable journeymen"

Argh.

GSW - he was nothing like the player he became in NY - he didn't have the experience other players did
NY - Darlyl Morey and poison pill
Houston - clearing cap space for Chris Bosh deal that fell through
LA Lakers - dysfunctional mess of a team, plus drafting D'Angelo Russell

I'm not saying Lin's a superstar or even that he should start. I like him as sixth man. But this blah blah blah about the number of times Lin has moved teams. When a good argument could be made that he is the best backup PG in the league right now ...

When Lin played such a significant role in games 3, 4 and 5 that the Hornets won

Still people put all this significance into Lin moving around --

what I notice is that at NY, Houston and Charlotte, he joined teams that had not been to the playoffs in a long time - NY and Houston - and had just been once recently - Charlotte - and he was an important part of squads that took them to playoffs in each of the years he played for them.

What I notice is that each of those teams played with a lot of joy and camaraderie. (It is hard to remember it now but Lin's first year in Houston, they were one of the cool new upstart teams. That's one of the reasons Dwight Howard chose them.)

And I notice that each of the team's was very fun to watch play.

And I notice that he sacrificed and adjusted to make other players better.

[Stun704]

I think Lin fans are generally more upset than Hornets fans because Lin fans have higher expectation. For a lot of fans, the Hornets making the playoffs is an accomplishment. Winning a playoff game for the first time in 14 years? Overachieving. Winning 2 in a row? Surreal. Winning 3? It's a miracle. The future is bright.

Lin wanted more. Lin fans wanted more. Lin has already been to the playoffs a few times but never got out of the first round. The Hornets had two shots at getting it done, but couldn't. Huge disappointment. The future is full of uncertainties.

At the end of the day, Lin has given the Hornets everything he has, has helped the team to get to the playoffs, and has been classy throughout. $2.1M well spent. The Hornets have given Lin just enough to show the rest of the league what he can do, whenever an opportunity presented itself.

Free agency begins in 2 months. We'll see what happens then.

too bad Lin didn't show up when we really needed him in game 6. If he would have made two more baskets we would have won

[Stun704]

"But what I suspect is that 4 or 5 different teams in as many years tells you all you need to know about Lin...he is a respectable journeymen"

Argh.

GSW - he was nothing like the player he became in NY - he didn't have the experience other players did
NY - Darlyl Morey and poison pill
Houston - clearing cap space for Chris Bosh deal that fell through
LA Lakers - dysfunctional mess of a team, plus drafting D'Angelo Russell

I'm not saying Lin's a superstar or even that he should start. I like him as sixth man. But this blah blah blah about the number of times Lin has moved teams. When a good argument could be made that he is the best backup PG in the league right now ...

When Lin played such a significant role in games 3, 4 and 5 that the Hornets won

Still people put all this significance into Lin moving around --

what I notice is that at NY, Houston and Charlotte, he joined teams that had not been to the playoffs in a long time - NY and Houston - and had just been once recently - Charlotte - and he was an important part of squads that took them to playoffs in each of the years he played for them.

What I notice is that each of those teams played with a lot of joy and camaraderie. (It is hard to remember it now but Lin's first year in Houston, they were one of the cool new upstart teams. That's one of the reasons Dwight Howard chose them.)

And I notice that each of the team's was very fun to watch play.

And I notice that he sacrificed and adjusted to make other players better.

Who is the better human being. Lin or MLK?

[TurnDownForWatt]

I think Lin fans are generally more upset than Hornets fans because Lin fans have higher expectation. For a lot of fans, the Hornets making the playoffs is an accomplishment. Winning a playoff game for the first time in 14 years? Overachieving. Winning 2 in a row? Surreal. Winning 3? It's a miracle. The future is bright.

Lin wanted more. Lin fans wanted more. Lin has already been to the playoffs a few times but never got out of the first round. The Hornets had two shots at getting it done, but couldn't. Huge disappointment. The future is full of uncertainties.

At the end of the day, Lin has given the Hornets everything he has, has helped the team to get to the playoffs, and has been classy throughout. $2.1M well spent. The Hornets have given Lin just enough to show the rest of the league what he can do, whenever an opportunity presented itself.

Free agency begins in 2 months. We'll see what happens then.

too bad Lin didn't show up when we really needed him in game 6. If he would have made two more baskets we would have won

Nobody showed up in Game 6 besides Kemba. The whole team got complacent and too happy after Game 5.