Geometry: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

[Braggins]

teams destroyed us for all kinds of reasons last season. small, big, didn't matter.

difference between this season and last is that we won't be down to two bigs in december and we wont have to hope marvin williams and maxiel can guard 4s for 20+ minutes a game and contribute at the same time.

We're going to be hoping Al, Hawes, and Kaminsky can guard athletic 3s and 4s for 20+ minutes a game...

edit: Oh, and possibly Marvin also lol...

They're never guarding 3s come on man

you are being so extra right now. after watching marvin williams guard zach randolph and blake griffin. i'll take a flyer on some guys with actual size in the post considering the alternative - especially if they'll open the floor up on the other end

So, Kaminsky, Hawes, and Marvin, are never playing at PF, or other teams don't ever play 3's as 4's? There is no way our current frontcourt rotation works without one of those guys seeing significant minutes at PF, and Marvin might be our backup SF. We get bigger and slower and bigger to add shooting while everyone else is getting smaller and more athletic to space the floor.

[DY_nasty]

Not a Hornets fan, coming in peace.

Why are you so negative about Kaminsky? I wouldn't mind it at all if my Pacers picked him at #11.

I understand that Winslow was still on board but he wasn't a good fit for your team. You just traded for Nic Batum. Do you think that you could play both Batum and Winslow?

The plan would be to have Winslow backup SF as a rookie and work on his shot and then possibly have him ready to slide over and start at the 2 if Batum bolts elsewhere for more money.

Who would you play at PF, though? Vonleh is gone and you're reportedly trying to trade Zeller. Marvin Williams is not a player that you'd want to start.

Its likely we just shopped Zeller, found a great deal that required Vonleh, and just said ynot

[DY_nasty]

We're going to be hoping Al, Hawes, and Kaminsky can guard athletic 3s and 4s for 20+ minutes a game...

edit: Oh, and possibly Marvin also lol...

They're never guarding 3s come on man

you are being so extra right now. after watching marvin williams guard zach randolph and blake griffin. i'll take a flyer on some guys with actual size in the post considering the alternative - especially if they'll open the floor up on the other end

So, Kaminsky, Hawes, and Marvin, are never playing at PF, or other teams don't ever play 3's as 4's? There is no way our current center rotation works without one of those guys seeing significant minutes at PF, and Marvin might be our backup SF. We get bigger and slower and bigger to add shooting while everyone else is getting smaller and more athletic to space the floor.

we don't have 3s on the roster at all now?

when did that happen?

[Absinthe]

yal making it sound like top 10 duke players are a sure thing or something

if this works out, there is massive crow to be served around. i'd be shocked if it doesn't actually. kaminsky isn't a bum by any stretch.

He isn't a bum, but they were shopping that pick for a reason. This team has maybe the worst front office in the entire NBA. Even the Timberwolves, a perennial laughing stock, has a young team full of potential. Minnesota is going to be really damn good in a couple of years.

If the Hornets are going to bungle picks then I would prefer for them to simply trade the picks. I do not agree with them wasting a pick on Vonleh, only to trade him a year later. I don't agree with trading for Hawes when everyone knew the front office had a hard on for Frank the Tank for months now. As a matter of fact, most of the draft picks this team has had are laughable. The list is legion.

[DY_nasty]

yal making it sound like top 10 duke players are a sure thing or something

if this works out, there is massive crow to be served around. i'd be shocked if it doesn't actually. kaminsky isn't a bum by any stretch.

He isn't a bum, but they were shopping that pick for a reason. This team has maybe the worst front office in the entire NBA. Even the Timberwolves, a perennial laughing stock, has a young team full of potential. Minnesota is going to be really damn good in a couple of years.

If the Hornets are going to bungle picks then I would prefer for them to simply trade the picks. I do not agree with them wasting a pick on Vonleh, only to trade him a year later. I don't agree with trading for Hawes when everyone knew the front office had a hard on for Frank the Tank for months now. As a matter of fact, most of the draft picks this team has had are laughable. The list is legion.

Every time I hear about how we wasted the Vonleh pick, I feel the need to remind people how we got it in the first place.

[Diop]

Not a Hornets fan, coming in peace.

Why are you so negative about Kaminsky? I wouldn't mind it at all if my Pacers picked him at #11.

I understand that Winslow was still on board but he wasn't a good fit for your team. You just traded for Nic Batum. Do you think that you could play both Batum and Winslow?

The plan would be to have Winslow backup SF as a rookie and work on his shot and then possibly have him ready to slide over and start at the 2 if Batum bolts elsewhere for more money.

Who would you play at PF, though? Vonleh is gone and you're reportedly trying to trade Zeller. Marvin Williams is not a player that you'd want to start.

most of us assumed with Vonleh gone that Zeller was staying.

Zeller did an admirable job last year defensively at Pf, was our best partner for the crappy Al

[Braggins]

They're never guarding 3s come on man

you are being so extra right now. after watching marvin williams guard zach randolph and blake griffin. i'll take a flyer on some guys with actual size in the post considering the alternative - especially if they'll open the floor up on the other end

So, Kaminsky, Hawes, and Marvin, are never playing at PF, or other teams don't ever play 3's as 4's? There is no way our current center rotation works without one of those guys seeing significant minutes at PF, and Marvin might be our backup SF. We get bigger and slower and bigger to add shooting while everyone else is getting smaller and more athletic to space the floor.

we don't have 3s on the roster at all now?

when did that happen?

If we plan on matching small when teams go small against us then we are willingly invalidating like a 1/3 of our roster. A lineup with a 3 at PF to match small will have one big. That means we are taking all but one of Al, Kaminsky, Zeller, Hawes, Biz, and Marv, completely out of play. That doesn't seem like our plan to me though, but it is still a bad one if it is. Clifford clearly wants to go big and wants post scoring and shooting. I highly doubt we aren't planning on playing 2 bigs almost the entire game, and we only have 2 bigs that can guard athletic 4's on the perimeter or have any chance against 3's in small ball lineups (Zeller/Marv).

[Absinthe]

This team isn't going to compete any time soon. I tried to warn you all with the Lance acquisition, but no one would listen. It squanders draft picks. Why in the world did they not offer MKG and Zeller for peanuts, draft Winslow, tank, and pray that the front office won't screw up a top three pick?

[Nuntius]

I think people are more shocked than anything, this came out of nowhere. we didn't interview, workout or get linked to frank until the last minute.

Really? Every report that I read the past 2 days about Kaminsky was that his range was from #4 to #9 and that he wouldn't get past Charlotte.

also doesn't help he called Charlotte boring a year ago (hence the thread title) so he didn't exactly get off to a good start with us.

That's completely understandable.

[DY_nasty]

So, Kaminsky, Hawes, and Marvin, are never playing at PF, or other teams don't ever play 3's as 4's? There is no way our current center rotation works without one of those guys seeing significant minutes at PF, and Marvin might be our backup SF. We get bigger and slower and bigger to add shooting while everyone else is getting smaller and more athletic to space the floor.

we don't have 3s on the roster at all now?

when did that happen?

If we plan on matching small when teams go small against us then we are willingly invalidating like a 1/3 of our roster. A lineup with a 3 at PF to match small will have one center. That means we are taking all but one of Al, Kaminsky, Zeller, Hawes, Biz, and Marv, completely out of play. That doesn't seem like our plan to me though, but it is still a bad one if it is. Clifford clearly wants to go big and wants post scoring and shooting. I highly doubt we aren't planning on playing 2 bigs almost the entire game, and we only have 2 bigs that can guard athletic 4's on the perimeter or have any chance against 3's in small ball lineups (Zeller/Marv).

but we can go small with zeller or biz at 5. we've done it before. late in the season, we didn't have the personnel

either way, we weren't consistent enough at anything other than good defense when mkg suited up and being the worst shooting team of the decade

[Braggins]

I think people are more shocked than anything, this came out of nowhere. we didn't interview, workout or get linked to frank until the last minute.

Really? Every report that I read the past 2 days about Kaminsky was that his range was from #4 to #9 and that he wouldn't get past Charlotte.

also doesn't help he called Charlotte boring a year ago (hence the thread title) so he didn't exactly get off to a good start with us.

That's completely understandable.

We didn't interview him and he didn't work out with us. We have drafted two straight bigs and just traded for Spencer Hawes. Most reports had us linked to Booker up until a couple days ago.

[Absinthe]

Not only is it completely understandable, but he is totally correct. It's one of the big reasons why Charlotte is not a big free agent market. Players will take less money not to play here. At least the good ones will.

[DY_nasty]

Not only is it completely understandable, but he is totally correct. It's one of the big reasons why Charlotte is not a big free agent market. Players will take less money not to play here. At least the good ones will.

tell me of a time that happened

[Braggins]

we don't have 3s on the roster at all now?

when did that happen?

If we plan on matching small when teams go small against us then we are willingly invalidating like a 1/3 of our roster. A lineup with a 3 at PF to match small will have one center. That means we are taking all but one of Al, Kaminsky, Zeller, Hawes, Biz, and Marv, completely out of play. That doesn't seem like our plan to me though, but it is still a bad one if it is. Clifford clearly wants to go big and wants post scoring and shooting. I highly doubt we aren't planning on playing 2 bigs almost the entire game, and we only have 2 bigs that can guard athletic 4's on the perimeter or have any chance against 3's in small ball lineups (Zeller/Marv).

but we can go small with zeller or biz at 5. we've done it before. late in the season, we didn't have the personnel

either way, we weren't consistent enough at anything other than good defense when mkg suited up and being the worst shooting team of the decade

I know, but then we have to either play a SF at PF or play Marvin, Cody, Hawes, Kaminsky, at PF, when teams go small. Al, Hawes, and Kaminsky can't even guard athletic 4s on the perimeter.

[Absinthe]

Yeah, you're right. They don't even entertain coming here. Lance will go down as the biggest free agent name to ever sign here.

[Nuntius]

Its likely we just shopped Zeller, found a great deal that required Vonleh, and just said ynot

Do you think that your FO rated Vonleh higher than Zeller? Clifford's PT didn't indicate that.

most of us assumed with Vonleh gone that Zeller was staying.

Zeller did an admirable job last year defensively at Pf, was our best partner for the crappy Al

That makes sense, I guess.

On an unrelated note, I don't know why NBA fans harp on about their Centers so much. Al Jefferson definitely has his limitations but he has his strengths as well. Pacers fans complain about Hibbert as well and I'm pretty sure that a number of them would do backflips if they had Jefferson instead. I certainly think that both of these big guys are being unfairly criticized but I digress.

[Nuntius]

I think people are more shocked than anything, this came out of nowhere. we didn't interview, workout or get linked to frank until the last minute.

Really? Every report that I read the past 2 days about Kaminsky was that his range
was from #4 to #9 and that he wouldn't get past Charlotte.

also doesn't help he called Charlotte boring a year ago (hence the thread title) so he didn't exactly get off to a good start with us.

That's completely understandable.

We didn't interview him and he didn't work out with us. We have drafted two straight bigs and just traded for Spencer Hawes. Most reports had us linked to Booker up until a couple days ago.

Devin Booker would make absolute perfect sense for your team. This is the pick I'd make if I was the Hornets.

That said, I don't think you traded for Spencer Hawes. My impression is that you traded Lance away because it wasn't going to work out and took anything that was offered.

[DY_nasty]

If we plan on matching small when teams go small against us then we are willingly invalidating like a 1/3 of our roster. A lineup with a 3 at PF to match small will have one center. That means we are taking all but one of Al, Kaminsky, Zeller, Hawes, Biz, and Marv, completely out of play. That doesn't seem like our plan to me though, but it is still a bad one if it is. Clifford clearly wants to go big and wants post scoring and shooting. I highly doubt we aren't planning on playing 2 bigs almost the entire game, and we only have 2 bigs that can guard athletic 4's on the perimeter or have any chance against 3's in small ball lineups (Zeller/Marv).

but we can go small with zeller or biz at 5. we've done it before. late in the season, we didn't have the personnel

either way, we weren't consistent enough at anything other than good defense when mkg suited up and being the worst shooting team of the decade

I know, but then we have to either play a SF at PF or play Marvin, Cody, Hawes, Kaminsky, at PF, when teams go small. Al, Hawes, and Kaminsky can't even guard athletic 4s on the perimeter.

You're really trying to make it sound like MKG at the 4, Batum at the 3 can never happen and vice versa. The lineup is a lot more flexible than you're trying to make it seem right now.

I'm actually happy to see the team put some faith in Daniels, PJ, and Lamb instead of some washed up vet swingmen.

[Braggins]

Its likely we just shopped Zeller, found a great deal that required Vonleh, and just said ynot

Do you think that your FO rated Vonleh higher than Zeller? Clifford's PT didn't indicate that.

most of us assumed with Vonleh gone that Zeller was staying.

Zeller did an admirable job last year defensively at Pf, was our best partner for the crappy Al

That makes sense, I guess.

On an unrelated note, I don't know why NBA fans harp on about their Centers so much. Al Jefferson definitely has his limitations but he has his strengths as well. Pacers fans complain about Hibbert as well and I'm pretty sure that a number of them would do backflips if they had Jefferson instead. I certainly think that both of these big guys are being unfairly criticized but I digress.

Defense is integral at the center position. Al is literally the worst defensive starting center in the league by a long shot. He came in out of shape the last two seasons and last year never got in shape and was constantly injured. All those people who were doing back flips would be ripping their hair out in a matter of weeks if you guys got Al.

[Braggins]

but we can go small with zeller or biz at 5. we've done it before. late in the season, we didn't have the personnel

either way, we weren't consistent enough at anything other than good defense when mkg suited up and being the worst shooting team of the decade

I know, but then we have to either play a SF at PF or play Marvin, Cody, Hawes, Kaminsky, at PF, when teams go small. Al, Hawes, and Kaminsky can't even guard athletic 4s on the perimeter.

You're really trying to make it sound like MKG at the 4, Batum at the 3 can never happen and vice versa. The lineup is a lot more flexible than you're trying to make it seem right now.

I'm actually happy to see the team put some faith in Daniels, PJ, and Lamb instead of some washed up vet swingmen.

It certainly can happen, but evidence would suggest that it isn't going to happen very often. If we do go that route then we are wasting 1/3 of our roster on guys that won't be able to play hardly at all against a relevant and growing number of teams in the league.