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Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#301 » by lin is ok » Mon May 2, 2016 4:09 am

fafan wrote:Kemba and Lin have some role confliction or overlap in this team and Cliff couldn't use them correctly. That's why most time only 1 of them can play well. But only 1 player plays well can't guarantee a win. Like game 6, Lin didn't play well and he didn't play last 6 minutes and Kemba can't make the win himself. This 7 game was showing what Hornets like, at least Cliff thought. It seems already give up and pretty happy with 1 round. Don't even know which is the real Hornets should be, game 1,2, 7 or 3,4,5.


thats a myth. Lin/Kemba combo was humming along fine in this playoffs , until Batum came back into the rotation.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#302 » by lin is ok » Mon May 2, 2016 4:11 am

PG13 wrote:I think Lin fans are generally more upset than Hornets fans because Lin fans have higher expectation. For a lot of fans, the Hornets making the playoffs is an accomplishment. Winning a playoff game for the first time in 14 years? Overachieving. Winning 2 in a row? Surreal. Winning 3? It's a miracle. The future is bright.

Lin wanted more. Lin fans wanted more. Lin has already been to the playoffs a few times but never got out of the first round. The Hornets had two shots at getting it done, but couldn't. Huge disappointment. The future is full of uncertainties.

At the end of the day, Lin has given the Hornets everything he has, has helped the team to get to the playoffs, and has been classy throughout. $2.1M well spent. The Hornets have given Lin just enough to show the rest of the league what he can do, whenever an opportunity presented itself.

Free agency begins in 2 months. We'll see what happens then.


with those 3 wins , i really thought that finally clifford realized that the Kemba/Lin lineup works. But obviously he doesn't.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#303 » by Travers » Mon May 2, 2016 4:22 am

Stun704 wrote:
PG13 wrote:I think Lin fans are generally more upset than Hornets fans because Lin fans have higher expectation. For a lot of fans, the Hornets making the playoffs is an accomplishment. Winning a playoff game for the first time in 14 years? Overachieving. Winning 2 in a row? Surreal. Winning 3? It's a miracle. The future is bright.

Lin wanted more. Lin fans wanted more. Lin has already been to the playoffs a few times but never got out of the first round. The Hornets had two shots at getting it done, but couldn't. Huge disappointment. The future is full of uncertainties.

At the end of the day, Lin has given the Hornets everything he has, has helped the team to get to the playoffs, and has been classy throughout. $2.1M well spent. The Hornets have given Lin just enough to show the rest of the league what he can do, whenever an opportunity presented itself.

Free agency begins in 2 months. We'll see what happens then.
too bad Lin didn't show up when we really needed him in game 6. If he would have made two more baskets we would have won


Lin's game time is either with kemba and batum together or anyone of them, and the ball is seldom on his hand. You can't expect Lin to influence much when he playing that role.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#304 » by JohnStockton » Mon May 2, 2016 4:28 am

Coming into this season, if you would've asked me if Jeremy Lin could play SG for stretches during a game without getting destroyed--I would've said yes.

Then I would've given you a caveat to that statement, and said that you probably shouldn't play Lin at SG for anything longer than 5-8 minutes though--because he's just not long enough to effectively defend SGs with an above-average offensive game. Yes, he's a big Point Guard at 6'3/205--so he has some combo ability--but at the end of the day, he's still a Point Guard.

Fast forward to this season, and this year--Jeremy played 26.3 Minutes per game. In those minutes, he played 9.7 minutes at PG--and--16.6 at SG. That breaks down into Jeremy Lin playing 37% of the time at PG--and 63% at SG.

That is pretty freaking crazy to me.

It is pretty nuts that Jeremy Lin had a pretty good season, all while playing out of position during 2/3rds of his minutes. I don't see any other way than to think that feat was impressive. And the truth is--I think Lin playing well despite being played out of position is glossed over all the time--and I think it's so easily glossed over because he actually pulled it off.

Just think about it--when some guy plays out of position and gets destroyed--you are constantly reminded that the guy playing out of position is doing so, because (duh), he's constantly getting destroyed. But this year, even while playing out of position at SG, Jeremy held his own on both defense and offense the vast majority of the time despite being undersized. He held it so well, it never really was a story. I myself was surprised when the numbers said he played 2/3rds of the time at SG. I was like, "He did? TF?" It just didn't feel like it, you know?

And that's kind of the whole point. He played the SG position so well, you weren't constantly reminded he was playing out of position--because whatever position he was playing--it was going smooth enough not to be a negative.

And that's a positive. He played the position so well, it was easy to forget about it if you were not paying attention (or just hopped on for the playoffs).

These things being said--to give perspective--I think it's unfair to knock Lin's defense in general in this series, just because of his struggles with Wade.

Yes, Wade abused him on the post on several clear instances. What did you expect to happen? DWade is an actual shooting guard--Lin is a point guard. Wade is 220--Lin is 205. 15 pounds of muscle is a huge difference. Of course DWade was going to abuse Lin in the post. Lin has gotten to the point where he can now reliably guard average shooting guards (despite being a point guard), but asking him to guard one of the best shooting guards of all time is still a bad idea. And Lin getting beat by Wade in the post is not ammo to trash on his defense either, because once again--Lin is a point guard--and shouldn't even be guarding Wade to begin with. He actually overachieved to even be given that assignment. He's done well to get to this point, and performed at a high level. When he actually played defense against his natural position and went up against Dragic, he actually performed superb the majority of the time. More respect to his D.

To me, there's only one area to accurately trash on Lin, and that is his tendency to overhelp on an opponent who is posting. He telegraphs his help too easily, and his man gets open treys too often. It's always been a problem of his since he got into the league. It happened several times in the 1st half of Game 7. If you want to trash freely, trash there--but not on the topic of guarding Wade or Dragic.

If you're gonna trash, it's gotta be accurate trash talk.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#305 » by PG13 » Mon May 2, 2016 4:37 am

JohnStockton wrote:Coming into this season, if you would've asked me if Jeremy Lin could play SG for stretches during a game without getting destroyed--I would've said yes.

Then I would've given you a caveat to that statement, and said that you probably shouldn't play Lin at SG for anything longer than 5-8 minutes though--because he's just not long enough to effectively defend SGs with an above-average offensive game. Yes, he's a big Point Guard at 6'3/205--so he has some combo ability--but at the end of the day, he's still a Point Guard.

Fast forward to this season, and this year--Jeremy played 26.3 Minutes per game. In those minutes, he played 9.7 minutes at PG--and--16.6 at SG. That breaks down into Jeremy Lin playing 37% of the time at PG--and 63% at SG.

That is pretty freaking crazy to me.

It is pretty nuts that Jeremy Lin had a pretty good season, all while playing out of position during 2/3rds of his minutes. I don't see any other way than to think that feat was impressive. And the truth is--I think Lin playing well despite being played out of position is glossed over all the time--and I think it's so easily glossed over because he actually pulled it off.

Just think about it--when some guy plays out of position and gets destroyed--you are constantly reminded that the guy playing out of position is doing so, because (duh), he's constantly getting destroyed. But this year, even while playing out of position at SG, Jeremy held his own on both defense and offense the vast majority of the time despite being undersized. He held it so well, it never really was a story. I myself was surprised when the numbers said he played 2/3rds of the time at SG. I was like, "He did? TF?" It just didn't feel like it, you know?

And that's kind of the whole point. He played the SG position so well, you weren't constantly reminded he was playing out of position--because whatever position he was playing--it was going smooth enough not to be a negative.

And that's a positive. He played the position so well, it was easy to forget about it if you were not paying attention (or just hopped on for the playoffs).

These things being said--to give perspective--I think it's unfair to knock Lin's defense in general in this series, just because of his struggles with Wade.

Yes, Wade abused him on the post on several clear instances. What did you expect to happen? DWade is an actual shooting guard--Lin is a point guard. Wade is 220--Lin is 205. 15 pounds of muscle is a huge difference. Of course DWade was going to abuse Lin in the post. Lin has gotten to the point where he can now reliably guard average shooting guards (despite being a point guard), but asking him to guard one of the best shooting guards of all time is still a bad idea. And Lin getting beat by Wade in the post is not ammo to trash on his defense either, because once again--Lin is a point guard--and shouldn't even be guarding Wade to begin with. He actually overachieved to even be given that assignment. He's done well to get to this point, and performed at a high level. When he actually played defense against his natural position and went up against Dragic, he actually performed superb the majority of the time. More respect to his D.

To me, there's only one area to accurately trash on Lin, and that is his tendency to overhelp on an opponent who is posting. He telegraphs his help too easily, and his man gets open treys too often. It's always been a problem of his since he got into the league. It happened several times in the 1st half of Game 7. If you want to trash freely, trash there--but not on the topic of guarding Wade or Dragic.

If you're gonna trash, it's gotta be accurate trash talk.


Wow. I'm a fan and I had no idea he played out of position almost 2/3 of the time. He really overachieved. Where did you get the breakdown from?
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#306 » by Travers » Mon May 2, 2016 4:44 am

JohnStockton wrote:Coming into this season, if you would've asked me if Jeremy Lin could play SG for stretches during a game without getting destroyed--I would've said yes.

Then I would've given you a caveat to that statement, and said that you probably shouldn't play Lin at SG for anything longer than 5-8 minutes though--because he's just not long enough to effectively defend SGs with an above-average offensive game. Yes, he's a big Point Guard at 6'3/205--so he has some combo ability--but at the end of the day, he's still a Point Guard.

Fast forward to this season, and this year--Jeremy played 26.3 Minutes per game. In those minutes, he played 9.7 minutes at PG--and--16.6 at SG. That breaks down into Jeremy Lin playing 37% of the time at PG--and 63% at SG.

That is pretty freaking crazy to me.

It is pretty nuts that Jeremy Lin had a pretty good season, all while playing out of position during 2/3rds of his minutes. I don't see any other way than to think that feat was impressive. And the truth is--I think Lin playing well despite being played out of position is glossed over all the time--and I think it's so easily glossed over because he actually pulled it off.

Just think about it--when some guy plays out of position and gets destroyed--you are constantly reminded that the guy playing out of position is doing so, because (duh), he's constantly getting destroyed. But this year, even while playing out of position at SG, Jeremy held his own on both defense and offense the vast majority of the time despite being undersized. He held it so well, it never really was a story. I myself was surprised when the numbers said he played 2/3rds of the time at SG. I was like, "He did? TF?" It just didn't feel like it, you know?

And that's kind of the whole point. He played the SG position so well, you weren't constantly reminded he was playing out of position--because whatever position he was playing--it was going smooth enough not to be a negative.

And that's a positive. He played the position so well, it was easy to forget about it if you were not paying attention (or just hopped on for the playoffs).

These things being said--to give perspective--I think it's unfair to knock Lin's defense in general in this series, just because of his struggles with Wade.

Yes, Wade abused him on the post on several clear instances. What did you expect to happen? DWade is an actual shooting guard--Lin is a point guard. Wade is 220--Lin is 205. 15 pounds of muscle is a huge difference. Of course DWade was going to abuse Lin in the post. Lin has gotten to the point where he can now reliably guard average shooting guards (despite being a point guard), but asking him to guard one of the best shooting guards of all time is still a bad idea. And Lin getting beat by Wade in the post is not ammo to trash on his defense either, because once again--Lin is a point guard--and shouldn't even be guarding Wade to begin with. He actually overachieved to even be given that assignment. He's done well to get to this point, and performed at a high level. When he actually played defense against his natural position and went up against Dragic, he actually performed superb the majority of the time. More respect to his D.

To me, there's only one area to accurately trash on Lin, and that is his tendency to overhelp on an opponent who is posting. He telegraphs his help too easily, and his man gets open treys too often. It's always been a problem of his since he got into the league. It happened several times in the 1st half of Game 7. If you want to trash freely, trash there--but not on the topic of guarding Wade or Dragic.

If you're gonna trash, it's gotta be accurate trash talk.


Isn't Lin have done good job on Wade?
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#307 » by TTNN » Mon May 2, 2016 4:45 am

https://jlinforum.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/the-stereotypical-subliminal-perception-of-jeremy-lin/

This is a super nice article about Lin, about people's subliminal perception of him. It is exactly how I feel that people always use a different standard on him, and would never give him credit, and always consider him have not proved himself.

I have seen people blame him cost the game of G6, but I have seen nobody pin any player down on G1, G2 and G7. Yes, all other players got a pass, even they got eaten in the defensive end, even they clucked a lot more shots, no, other players only carried the team, they never cost a game.

But to Lin, it is totally different, his missed shot always cost a game, his TO always changed the tide, his fouls always momentum changer.

I don't think that's hater, but that is so strong subliminal double standard, and yet a lot people don't realize they possess.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#308 » by JohnStockton » Mon May 2, 2016 4:45 am

PG13 wrote:
JohnStockton wrote:Coming into this season, if you would've asked me if Jeremy Lin could play SG for stretches during a game without getting destroyed--I would've said yes.

Then I would've given you a caveat to that statement, and said that you probably shouldn't play Lin at SG for anything longer than 5-8 minutes though--because he's just not long enough to effectively defend SGs with an above-average offensive game. Yes, he's a big Point Guard at 6'3/205--so he has some combo ability--but at the end of the day, he's still a Point Guard.

Fast forward to this season, and this year--Jeremy played 26.3 Minutes per game. In those minutes, he played 9.7 minutes at PG--and--16.6 at SG. That breaks down into Jeremy Lin playing 37% of the time at PG--and 63% at SG.

That is pretty freaking crazy to me.

It is pretty nuts that Jeremy Lin had a pretty good season, all while playing out of position during 2/3rds of his minutes. I don't see any other way than to think that feat was impressive. And the truth is--I think Lin playing well despite being played out of position is glossed over all the time--and I think it's so easily glossed over because he actually pulled it off.

Just think about it--when some guy plays out of position and gets destroyed--you are constantly reminded that the guy playing out of position is doing so, because (duh), he's constantly getting destroyed. But this year, even while playing out of position at SG, Jeremy held his own on both defense and offense the vast majority of the time despite being undersized. He held it so well, it never really was a story. I myself was surprised when the numbers said he played 2/3rds of the time at SG. I was like, "He did? TF?" It just didn't feel like it, you know?

And that's kind of the whole point. He played the SG position so well, you weren't constantly reminded he was playing out of position--because whatever position he was playing--it was going smooth enough not to be a negative.

And that's a positive. He played the position so well, it was easy to forget about it if you were not paying attention (or just hopped on for the playoffs).

These things being said--to give perspective--I think it's unfair to knock Lin's defense in general in this series, just because of his struggles with Wade.

Yes, Wade abused him on the post on several clear instances. What did you expect to happen? DWade is an actual shooting guard--Lin is a point guard. Wade is 220--Lin is 205. 15 pounds of muscle is a huge difference. Of course DWade was going to abuse Lin in the post. Lin has gotten to the point where he can now reliably guard average shooting guards (despite being a point guard), but asking him to guard one of the best shooting guards of all time is still a bad idea. And Lin getting beat by Wade in the post is not ammo to trash on his defense either, because once again--Lin is a point guard--and shouldn't even be guarding Wade to begin with. He actually overachieved to even be given that assignment. He's done well to get to this point, and performed at a high level. When he actually played defense against his natural position and went up against Dragic, he actually performed superb the majority of the time. More respect to his D.

To me, there's only one area to accurately trash on Lin, and that is his tendency to overhelp on an opponent who is posting. He telegraphs his help too easily, and his man gets open treys too often. It's always been a problem of his since he got into the league. It happened several times in the 1st half of Game 7. If you want to trash freely, trash there--but not on the topic of guarding Wade or Dragic.

If you're gonna trash, it's gotta be accurate trash talk.


Wow. I'm a fan and I had no idea he played out of position almost 2/3 of the time. He really overachieved. Where did you get the breakdown from?


I didn't realize it either until I looked it up about half-way into the season. Since then, I've been keeping tabs on his playing position time, seeing if he could maintain the level of play.

Here's the breakdown of playing time by position:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/linje01.html#advanced_pbp::none

Scroll down some more, and you'll see that Jeremy played 35% of the time at PG/and 65% at SG against the Heat.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#309 » by Travers » Mon May 2, 2016 4:45 am

PG13 wrote:
JohnStockton wrote:Coming into this season, if you would've asked me if Jeremy Lin could play SG for stretches during a game without getting destroyed--I would've said yes.

Then I would've given you a caveat to that statement, and said that you probably shouldn't play Lin at SG for anything longer than 5-8 minutes though--because he's just not long enough to effectively defend SGs with an above-average offensive game. Yes, he's a big Point Guard at 6'3/205--so he has some combo ability--but at the end of the day, he's still a Point Guard.

Fast forward to this season, and this year--Jeremy played 26.3 Minutes per game. In those minutes, he played 9.7 minutes at PG--and--16.6 at SG. That breaks down into Jeremy Lin playing 37% of the time at PG--and 63% at SG.

That is pretty freaking crazy to me.

It is pretty nuts that Jeremy Lin had a pretty good season, all while playing out of position during 2/3rds of his minutes. I don't see any other way than to think that feat was impressive. And the truth is--I think Lin playing well despite being played out of position is glossed over all the time--and I think it's so easily glossed over because he actually pulled it off.

Just think about it--when some guy plays out of position and gets destroyed--you are constantly reminded that the guy playing out of position is doing so, because (duh), he's constantly getting destroyed. But this year, even while playing out of position at SG, Jeremy held his own on both defense and offense the vast majority of the time despite being undersized. He held it so well, it never really was a story. I myself was surprised when the numbers said he played 2/3rds of the time at SG. I was like, "He did? TF?" It just didn't feel like it, you know?

And that's kind of the whole point. He played the SG position so well, you weren't constantly reminded he was playing out of position--because whatever position he was playing--it was going smooth enough not to be a negative.

And that's a positive. He played the position so well, it was easy to forget about it if you were not paying attention (or just hopped on for the playoffs).

These things being said--to give perspective--I think it's unfair to knock Lin's defense in general in this series, just because of his struggles with Wade.

Yes, Wade abused him on the post on several clear instances. What did you expect to happen? DWade is an actual shooting guard--Lin is a point guard. Wade is 220--Lin is 205. 15 pounds of muscle is a huge difference. Of course DWade was going to abuse Lin in the post. Lin has gotten to the point where he can now reliably guard average shooting guards (despite being a point guard), but asking him to guard one of the best shooting guards of all time is still a bad idea. And Lin getting beat by Wade in the post is not ammo to trash on his defense either, because once again--Lin is a point guard--and shouldn't even be guarding Wade to begin with. He actually overachieved to even be given that assignment. He's done well to get to this point, and performed at a high level. When he actually played defense against his natural position and went up against Dragic, he actually performed superb the majority of the time. More respect to his D.

To me, there's only one area to accurately trash on Lin, and that is his tendency to overhelp on an opponent who is posting. He telegraphs his help too easily, and his man gets open treys too often. It's always been a problem of his since he got into the league. It happened several times in the 1st half of Game 7. If you want to trash freely, trash there--but not on the topic of guarding Wade or Dragic.

If you're gonna trash, it's gotta be accurate trash talk.


Wow. I'm a fan and I had no idea he played out of position almost 2/3 of the time. He really overachieved. Where did you get the breakdown from?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/linje01.html#advanced_pbp::none
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#310 » by Walt Cronkite » Mon May 2, 2016 5:00 am

When Lin is on and he's hitting shots and teammates, I'm happy to have him. Being imperfect, there were times this season he made questionable decisions or was sloppy with the ball. He gets criticism for not really showing up in game 6 because 1, he's the only player a lot of you want to talk about and 2, he earned the attention by stellar performances in the previous games. I would've loved Marvin's shot to have shown up for more in the series or Batum to have been healthy (it seems to be conveniently forgotten he hit some huge shots in game 5), there is a lot of criticism to go around. No one on this team is incapable of being upgraded.

If Lin sticks around, I hope some of his fans embrace the comeraderie demonstrated by he and his teammates with the rest of us long time Hornets fans. It's a shame that it would also be a relief if he moved on because of his fanatics.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#311 » by fatlever » Mon May 2, 2016 5:04 am

TTNN wrote:https://jlinforum.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/the-stereotypical-subliminal-perception-of-jeremy-lin/

This is a super nice article about Lin, about people's subliminal perception of him. It is exactly how I feel that people always use a different standard on him, and would never give him credit, and always consider him have not proved himself.

I have seen people blame him cost the game of G6, but I have seen nobody pin any player down on G1, G2 and G7. Yes, all other players got a pass, even they got eaten in the defensive end, even they clucked a lot more shots, no, other players only carried the team, they never cost a game.

But to Lin, it is totally different, his missed shot always cost a game, his TO always changed the tide, his fouls always momentum changer.

I don't think that's hater, but that is so strong subliminal double standard, and yet a lot people don't realize they possess.


Marvin has taken 100 times more blame for game 6 than Lin. Batum also taken more blame for his first half performance. Only reason Lin gets talked about more is because he has 50 more fans bringing him up in every thread. That's not a double standard, its oversaturation.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#312 » by fatlever » Mon May 2, 2016 5:17 am

Walt Cronkite wrote:If Lin sticks around, I hope some of his fans embrace the comeraderie demonstrated by he and his teammates with the rest of us long time Hornets fans. It's a shame that it would also be a relief if he moved on because of his fanatics.


You know, I think this point is one of the most frustrating things about some of the more annoying Lin fans I have encountered (and today has been level 10 as far as annoying Lin fans are concerned). Lin is probably one of the most humble, selfless, best teammates I've ever seen in this city. He embraces the ideas of being a great teammate as well as anyone in the league. Yet many of his fans, the ones I speak of, act in a way that is a direct contradiction to how Lin behaves and how he would want his fans to behave and how he would want them to treat his coaches and teammates. The Lin vs the world mentality, the constant excuse making for Lin and pointing fingers at his coaches and teammates has been absolutely nauseating at times this year, especially today. That type of behavior would certainly make Lin sick to his stomach if he were to read the stuff on the boards (and others).

As a Hornets fan, I really want Lin to stay with this team. And I really like him as a player and as a person. He's a really good player and a great teammate. As a mod on this board, there is a part of me that will be relieved if he leaves because. I really enjoy interacting with a handful of the Lin fans that have been active all year. Sadly, there are a lot of Lin fans on realgm that I will be happy to never have to read a post from ever again and I'm only talking about the ones that haven't been banned for good yet.

It's a real shame.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#313 » by fafan » Mon May 2, 2016 5:24 am

Cumulative +/- for the playoff series

Batum -86
Jefferson -64
Walker -62
Lee -17
Kaminsky -12
Zeller +3
Lin +5
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#314 » by JohnStockton » Mon May 2, 2016 5:28 am

TTNN wrote:https://jlinforum.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/the-stereotypical-subliminal-perception-of-jeremy-lin/

This is a super nice article about Lin, about people's subliminal perception of him. It is exactly how I feel that people always use a different standard on him, and would never give him credit, and always consider him have not proved himself.

I have seen people blame him cost the game of G6, but I have seen nobody pin any player down on G1, G2 and G7. Yes, all other players got a pass, even they got eaten in the defensive end, even they clucked a lot more shots, no, other players only carried the team, they never cost a game.

But to Lin, it is totally different, his missed shot always cost a game, his TO always changed the tide, his fouls always momentum changer.

I don't think that's hater, but that is so strong subliminal double standard, and yet a lot people don't realize they possess.


Blatantly higher standards for Lin, that are never good enough, might be part of the equation for people who have serious anti-Jeremy Lin/Asian folk bias, but I think for most normal folks, the specter of Linsanity blooming again is actually more of a driving factor than subliminal racism (in terms of how people gauge Lin's play).

I'd break it down like this.

You have to believe in someone's higher potential, for it to even be a possibility to be disappointed in them.

For example, I really like Marvin Williams. I think he was probably the 3rd or 4th most important player on this team this year--but at the end of the day--I am not overly disappointed in his performance in the Heat series, because I saw that he thrived as spot-up shooter during the regular season, and since the Heat took that away, why should I expect him to be capable of playing beyond his means if they took his 3-ball away?

When Courtney Lee didn't play well because he was missing all of his midrange J's in several games--I was not disappointed in him either. Why should I be, when Courtney only has midrange pull-ups and spot-up 3s? He's never been anything other than "super-solid", so I can't expect him to play behind his means either. He doesn't have the skill-set to do that.

So even when these guys like Marv and Courtney (who are very solid NBA players) don't play well, I instinctively won't get as much heat to them, and I don't think the common NBA fan will either--because their ceilings aren't usually game-changers.

But Jeremy Lin is different for most casual fans. That guy is known as the author of Linsanity--and not only that--he just had 3 tremendous performances which invoked the image of those days to some lesser degree. Yes, it wasn't Linsanity itself--but still--it invoked the image of it.

So now some people are pumped--they want another great Lin performance--they're definitely not expecting some great Courtney Lee performance or some Marvin Williams performance. They want a Lin performance. And when they get a stinker--they're going to be extremely disappointed--focusing on how much Jeremy sucked that night.

Is that fair? Well, it comes with the territory when great things can be expected of you. If you get pumped up from three wins--you're going to pump yourself up for the fourth one--and when it bails on you... You're getting wrecked in salt mines.

But that right there--that is the Jeremy Lin paradox itself--because to a certain degree; Jeremy Lin was never supposed to happen. Y'all know the story. Undrafted, cut three times, New York, blah blah blah.

But think about it this way. So Lin blew up once upon a time ago in New York--and when he cooled down--the natural instinct was to call him a fluke. But then he plays well again during certain stretches, and the hype slowly grumbles up again. But wait--how can a guy who is regularly called a fluke--also simultaneously garner the genuine hype and expectation to deliver a great performance...if he's a fluke? That's the Jeremy Lin paradox; the looming genuine expectation of hype, while also bracing for the event that if the hype doesn't occur--you can easily say it was all a dream--but hey, if it does occur--GET HYPE!

So why does this even exist?

Human nature, the history of Linsanity, Jeremy's an Asian dude, etc. It's a mix of things--but I think deep inside--most people just want to believe in Jeremy more. He's likeable--it's fun to watch when he's on--you want to root for him. After the high of Linsanity, some people will always have a spot inside of them where they simultaneously expect more out of him, yet are also quick to pull the trigger on the "fluke button" when things go awry. And that again--is the Jeremy Lin Paradox--it is how he can be the most criticized 2 million dollar player in the league.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#315 » by PG13 » Mon May 2, 2016 5:38 am

Doesn't look like he's thinking of coming back. Huge contrast to Batum's interview.

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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#316 » by Lorenzomax7 » Mon May 2, 2016 5:39 am

Lin defended Wade really well in G3-G5. He only got abused in 3-5 poss this whole series. One day I would find some stats to back it up.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#317 » by Lorenzomax7 » Mon May 2, 2016 5:49 am

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/playtype/post-up/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals&OD=defensive

Lin is not even qualified as a post-up defender this playoffs. ( Minimum of 10 min/game and 10 possessions per play type to qualify. )

And we are talking about how bad he was abused by Wade's post-up in a few possessions???

This is confirmation biased towards an Asian player. ( weak, soft, thin, can't play D, etc.)
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#318 » by Lorenzomax7 » Mon May 2, 2016 5:52 am

JohnStockton wrote:
TTNN wrote:https://jlinforum.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/the-stereotypical-subliminal-perception-of-jeremy-lin/

This is a super nice article about Lin, about people's subliminal perception of him. It is exactly how I feel that people always use a different standard on him, and would never give him credit, and always consider him have not proved himself.

I have seen people blame him cost the game of G6, but I have seen nobody pin any player down on G1, G2 and G7. Yes, all other players got a pass, even they got eaten in the defensive end, even they clucked a lot more shots, no, other players only carried the team, they never cost a game.

But to Lin, it is totally different, his missed shot always cost a game, his TO always changed the tide, his fouls always momentum changer.

I don't think that's hater, but that is so strong subliminal double standard, and yet a lot people don't realize they possess.


Blatantly higher standards for Lin, that are never good enough, might be part of the equation for people who have serious anti-Jeremy Lin/Asian folk bias, but I think for most normal folks, the specter of Linsanity blooming again is actually more of a driving factor than subliminal racism (in terms of how people gauge Lin's play).

I'd break it down like this.

You have to believe in someone's higher potential, for it to even be a possibility to be disappointed in them.

For example, I really like Marvin Williams. I think he was probably the 3rd or 4th most important player on this team this year--but at the end of the day--I am not overly disappointed in his performance in the Heat series, because I saw that he thrived as spot-up shooter during the regular season, and since the Heat took that away, why should I expect him to be capable of playing beyond his means if they took his 3-ball away?

When Courtney Lee didn't play well because he was missing all of his midrange J's in several games--I was not disappointed in him either. Why should I be, when Courtney only has midrange pull-ups and spot-up 3s? He's never been anything other than "super-solid", so I can't expect him to play behind his means either. He doesn't have the skill-set to do that.

So even when these guys like Marv and Courtney (who are very solid NBA players) don't play well, I instinctively won't get as much heat to them, and I don't think the common NBA fan will either--because their ceilings aren't usually game-changers.

But Jeremy Lin is different for most casual fans. That guy is known as the author of Linsanity--and not only that--he just had 3 tremendous performances which invoked the image of those days to some lesser degree. Yes, it wasn't Linsanity itself--but still--it invoked the image of it.

So now some people are pumped--they want another great Lin performance--they're definitely not expecting some great Courtney Lee performance or some Marvin Williams performance. They want a Lin performance. And when they get a stinker--they're going to be extremely disappointed--focusing on how much Jeremy sucked that night.

Is that fair? Well, it comes with the territory when great things can be expected of you. If you get pumped up from three wins--you're going to pump yourself up for the fourth one--and when it bails on you... You're getting wrecked in salt mines.

But that right there--that is the Jeremy Lin paradox itself--because to a certain degree; Jeremy Lin was never supposed to happen. Y'all know the story. Undrafted, cut three times, New York, blah blah blah.

But think about it this way. So Lin blew up once upon a time ago in New York--and when he cooled down--the natural instinct was to call him a fluke. But then he plays well again during certain stretches, and the hype slowly grumbles up again. But wait--how can a guy who is regularly called a fluke--also simultaneously garner the genuine hype and expectation to deliver a great performance...if he's a fluke? That's the Jeremy Lin paradox; the looming genuine expectation of hype, while also bracing for the event that if the hype doesn't occur--you can easily say it was all a dream--but hey, if it does occur--GET HYPE!

So why does this even exist?

Human nature, the history of Linsanity, Jeremy's an Asian dude, etc. It's a mix of things--but I think deep inside--most people just want to believe in Jeremy more. He's likeable--it's fun to watch when he's on--you want to root for him. After the high of Linsanity, some people will always have a spot inside of them where they simultaneously expect more out of him, yet are also quick to pull the trigger on the "fluke button" when things go awry. And that again--is the Jeremy Lin Paradox--it is how he can be the most criticized 2 million dollar player in the league.

Can't agree more!

Lin is seriously overrated to be an underrated player.
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#319 » by Flip Murray » Mon May 2, 2016 5:56 am

Lorenzomax7 wrote:http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/playtype/post-up/

Lin is not even qualified as a post-up defender this playoffs. ( Minimum of 10 min/game and 10 possessions per play type to qualify. )

And we are talking about how bad he was abused by Wade's post-up in a few possessions???

This is confirmation biased towards an Asian player. ( weak, soft, thin, can't play D, etc.)


The irony of this post is astounding
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Re: Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1 

Post#320 » by Travers » Mon May 2, 2016 6:00 am

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