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Around the NBA 11

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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#321 » by yosemiteben » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:32 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
(2) I'm not going to speculate who could we have signed because it's honestly not my job to figure that out. Obviously if we hadn't signed Hayward and he reupped with Boston than we wouldn't have known we could've gotten him, so we just don't have the data to understand who we could've gotten for what we paid Hayward. At the end of the day if the criteria was I get $40M in cap space per year and I can sign non-needle movers, there are very, very many different ways and guys I could have signed to accomplish that.


Hmmmm, not your job... obviously not your job, that is Mitch/MJ etc... but you are a MOD/poster on a basketball forum so I do not think it is outrageous that you would of given thought to the idea. I am not asking what would of exactly happened, but you don't want to speculate at all on a different avenue the team could of went when it came to spending its cap space and on which players???

It is not like you are going to get fired from your MOD position for tossing a few ideas out, not sure why you are so hesitant to post an actual idea or alternative plan. Instead you just continue to speak in these very generic responses "there are very, very many different ways and guys I could have signed to accomplish that".

Obviously do what you want, but it is a little like someone saying "Wow you overspent on that Audi, you could of gotten a much better deal for the money" ... Oh really which one should I have gone with? "IDK, but you made a bad decision".

Ok, here is a list of non- or barely-needle moving UFA wings that we could have signed for much less than Hayward yet much more than they actually signed for and wouldn't have required stretching Batum:

Jerami Grant
Joe Harris
Gallinari
KCP
Crowder
Hood
Connaughton
Rivers
Josh Jackson
Alec Burks
Bembry
Ellington

Hell, if we just want a vet that won't move the needle, there's this guy Nic Batum that we can have for one year and then we'll be gifted $27M in cap space.

Also, I've seen you post several times that Hayward's contract makes him the #34 paid player in the league, but that obviously leaves out Batum's stretch. If you base it on the total cap space he is occupying ($32M per year + Batum's $9M per year), he actually is in the top 5 in the league (based on this: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit//). You cannot convince me that committing that much cap space is acceptable if we're assuming he won't get us any more wins. That is just crazy talk.
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#322 » by JMAC3 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:46 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Ok, here is a list of non- or barely-needle moving UFA wings that we could have signed for much less than Hayward yet much more than they actually signed for and wouldn't have required stretching Batum:

Jerami Grant
Joe Harris
Gallinari
KCP
Crowder
Hood
Connaughton
Rivers
Josh Jackson
Alec Burks
Bembry
Ellington

Hell, if we just want a vet that won't move the needle, there's this guy Nic Batum that we can have for one year and then we'll be gifted $27M in cap space.

Also, I've seen you post several times that Hayward's contract makes him the #34 paid player in the league, but that obviously leaves out Batum's stretch. If you base it on the total cap space he is occupying ($32M per year + Batum's $9M per year), he actually is in the top 5 in the league (based on this: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit//). You cannot convince me that committing that much cap space is acceptable if we're assuming he won't get us any more wins. That is just crazy talk.


Who is saying he isn't getting us more wins? That is wrong first of all. He had a higher WAR (wins above replacement player) then anyone on our team last year. I am not one arguing he doesn't make us better, but maybe that is pointed at someone else.

So you are saying you would of rather signed that list of players for their deals they signed instead of Hayward?

Also, we were paying Batum 27 million regardless so for this season you would not add the 9 million. That would only be true if we had to take on Batum in a deal along with Hayward which was not the case. You can actually make the case that Batum was not going to play at all this year (so complete dead weight) so by swapping him for Hayward you could look at the contract like this...

2020- 10.5 Million (28.5 million- Batum 27 originally owned+ 9 million back in dead cap)
2021- 39 million (30+9 million from Batum)
2022-39 Million (30+ 9)
2023-31.5 Million
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#323 » by yosemiteben » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:00 pm

JMAC3 wrote:Who is saying he isn't getting us more wins? That is wrong first of all.


yosemiteben wrote:I don't buy the argument at all that it's fine if Hayward doesn't move the needle because he provides structure. I can't imagine our FO dropped that coin just so he could babysit us through another non playoff season.


yosemiteben wrote:My response is completely based on this argument that it doesn't matter whether Hayward moves the needle this season.


yosemiteben wrote:As I mentioned here, this whole response is based on the argument that Hayward doesn't "move the needle" / contribute wins.
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#324 » by penquin11 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:43 pm

I mean I was just comparing his salary against his contemporaries (players receiving similar pay) aka Joel Embiid, Brady Beal, Kawhi Leonard, ect. Did you know that only 3 players in NBA history have every been given multiple $30mil+ contracts over their career? Lebron, KD, and now Hayward. One of those names clearly doesn't belong.
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#325 » by JMAC3 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:27 am

penquin11 wrote:I mean I was just comparing his salary against his contemporaries (players receiving similar pay) aka Joel Embiid, Brady Beal, Kawhi Leonard, ect. Did you know that only 3 players in NBA history have every been given multiple $30mil+ contracts over their career? Lebron, KD, and now Hayward. One of those names clearly doesn't belong.


At first glance it looks weird, but it’s more of a when you get paid stat, after next year this list will be a lot larger simply due to the cap jumps the past couple years.

I remember when Mike Conley signed the largest contract in NBA history haha
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#326 » by JMAC3 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:47 am

Just for perspective: Hayward signed a max contract after his rookie deal with Hornets and then Utah matched a 4/62 million MAX deal.

Compared to Devin Booker/Brandon Ingram/Jamal Murray Max contracts after rookie deal all signed a 5/158 million...

Those guys are going to sign 4 year/200 million + deals at some point in their careers just based on more money in the Budget
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#327 » by LofJ » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:49 pm

Any interest in TJ Leaf? Not a great sign that both Indiana and OKC jettisoned him, but no organization is perfect, so it might be worth taking a look at him.
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#328 » by BigSlam » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:33 am

The New York Knicks are waiving Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, sources told Shams Charania of The Athletic.
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#329 » by Diop » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:48 am

BigSlam wrote:
The New York Knicks are waiving Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, sources told Shams Charania of The Athletic.

wow, he's done then
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#330 » by HornetJail » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:36 am

he was on an exhibit 10 and was out the entire preseason with an illness

expect him to latch on elsewhere. I'm expecting BRK
investigate Adam Silver
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#331 » by JMAC3 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:44 am

Kuzma received a 3/40 Extension which is an interesting data point for possible Monk and Graham deals this summer.

Really like the deal by Lakers because it makes Kuzma an easier contract for matching in trades moving forward.

Honestly, wouldn't mind Monk playing well this year and then dealing him at deadline and let the next team worry about paying him his first big boy contract.
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#332 » by Braggins » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:23 pm

I'm glad Jonathan Isaac got a nice extension. It was honestly kind of unwise on Orlando's part givien his recent injuries, but I feel like they owed him since he should have gotten surgery after his first injury and shouldn't even have been playing when got his last major injury, but they were trotting him out there anyways trying to make a pointless playoff push.
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#333 » by JMAC3 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:11 pm

Raptors gave 18 million to OG 4/72. I like him but that seems like an overpay for a guy that basically is stand still scorer. Seems like they could find 80 percent of what he does at less than half the cost. He is only 23 but he hasn’t really shown many flashes of being a guy on the verge of breaking out.

They are now paying 70 million combined next year for OG, Siakam, and FVV. To compare they were paying them a combined 13 million on their title team.
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#334 » by BlackOutBuzz » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:46 pm

Read on Twitter


Still crazy that we (A) had capspace for once (B) made a huge signing, and (C) are one of two teams that still have space.

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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#335 » by BigSlam » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:42 pm

JMAC3 wrote:Raptors gave 18 million to OG 4/72. I like him but that seems like an overpay for a guy that basically is stand still scorer. Seems like they could find 80 percent of what he does at less than half the cost. He is only 23 but he hasn’t really shown many flashes of being a guy on the verge of breaking out.

They are now paying 70 million combined next year for OG, Siakam, and FVV. To compare they were paying them a combined 13 million on their title team.

Toronto media are loving the signing.

They are suggesting that he’s going to break out this season and had they waited to sign him would have potentially had to sign him, or match an opposing teams, max contract next offseason.

I personally can’t see him ever see him being max contract worthy, but who knows.


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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#336 » by JMAC3 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:40 pm

BigSlam wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Raptors gave 18 million to OG 4/72. I like him but that seems like an overpay for a guy that basically is stand still scorer. Seems like they could find 80 percent of what he does at less than half the cost. He is only 23 but he hasn’t really shown many flashes of being a guy on the verge of breaking out.

They are now paying 70 million combined next year for OG, Siakam, and FVV. To compare they were paying them a combined 13 million on their title team.

Toronto media are loving the signing.

They are suggesting that he’s going to break out this season and had they waited to sign him would have potentially had to sign him, or match an opposing teams, max contract next offseason.

I personally can’t see him ever see him being max contract worthy, but who knows.


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He took 8 shots in 30 minutes a game last season, so not a huge room for him to improve by giving him more minutes. He was super efficient in both shot selection and shooting percentages as he shoots 85% of his shots within 3 feet or from three point range. However, that is my main issue with him, he does not offer any creation of his own shot or shots for others.

Toronto seems to be building a solid 4-6 seed team in the East, without much room for improvement from a younger guy. I know many will disagree, but I think our core now might have a higher upside then their current roster if both hit the ceiling.
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#337 » by Braggins » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:48 pm

Apparently Kerr said Wiseman has been impressive since hes been able to practice with the team and hinted at this a little while back.

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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#338 » by yosemiteben » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:55 pm

That is crazy. 19 year old with only three college games worth of experience, not a single game played in the last 12 months, no SL or preseason, and he's starting against one of the best teams in the east. I'm super curious, will definitely be watching.
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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#339 » by BlackOutBuzz » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:08 pm

Has Wiseman been injured? Didn't realize he hadn't even played in preseason.

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Re: Around the NBA 11 

Post#340 » by yosemiteben » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:19 pm

BlackOutBuzz wrote:Has Wiseman been injured? Didn't realize he hadn't even played in preseason.

Word on the street is he got COVID. He was listed as DNP-Rest on all their preseason boxscores.

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