OMFKG! The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread

[Jaruff]

Kenyon Martin was #1 pick in the worst draft in memory. Maybe the worst draft of all-time.

Obviously you've forgotten Michael Olawakandi

He's talking about the draft as a whole.

Three All-Stars from the 2000 Draft. Four All-Stars in the top 10 of the 1998 (Olawakandi) draft. Five total with Rashard Lewis in the second round. 1998 was a solid draft, just a bad top choice. 2000 was a terrible draft, I'd argue the worst in the history of the NBA.

[Eoghan]

Prospects so far...

Good tier: J. Lamb, Lillard, MKG, White, Beal, Barnes...

Maybe good: Drummond, Leonard, Jones, Sullinger, Ross, Robinson...

Hmm tier: Waiters, Plumlee, PJIII, Rivers, Marshall, Teague...

Boom's only had one game so he's kind of on the bubble in my mind but it was a great debut.

[MKG14]

Prospects so far...

Good tier: J. Lamb, Lillard, MKG, White, Beal, Barnes...

Maybe good: Drummond, Leonard, Jones, Sullinger, Ross, Robinson...

Hmm tier: Waiters, Plumlee, PJIII, Rivers, Marshall, Teague...

Boom's only had one game so he's kind of on the bubble in my mind but it was a great debut.

and obviously davis is going in the good tier yes? Or are you trying to think purely summer league?

[Badd_Intentions]

Still don't understand the waiters pick.

[AnaheimRoyale]

As was just pointed out, 2000 wasn't bad because it had the worst 1st pick... it's because as a whole, the 2000 draft was utterly terrible, and almost wholly without talent. So invoking Kenyon as the #1 pick isn't much of a claim, when he was #1 in such an awful year.

As to the broader question. You assess a GM on results, because they have access to information and resources you don't have. When something goes bad in retrospect, you judge them on it. It is no response for you to tell me "but who would you have picked?!". I'm a fan with a full time office job who doesn't have the time, resources or experience to make these decisions. No fan posting here should. Personally I'd have traded down, and then it would have depended who was available... I guess I'd have looked at T-Rob or Harrison or Drummond at #4, based off my fan perspective... none of which is relevant to whether the pick was good or bad.

A pick can be "ok", and still be a terrible pick for a franchise. The Bosh pick was pretty good, except that they passed on Wade. The Felton pick was understandable... but you really would have been better off with Bynum. The Beasley pick made sense for the Heat in 08 it seemed... but in retrospect they should have taken Love. You judge GM's on results, on seeing ahead of the curve, not "it made sense at the time". If I was a Bobcats fan, I'd be furious if we had the #2 pick in a draft, and got maybe the 5th best player. It's the same reason the Leonard pick is so great for the Spurs, because he went 15, but he should have gone top 5. Asset management... get the best out of your assets.

I think MKG looks really good off one summer league game, I definitely think I underrated him a little... but Lillard looks better right now, and I think other players could also work out better. This is something to bear in mind, and not just be dismissed casually by the fanbase. Fans need to be objective about when their team makes a mistake.

[MKG14]

As was just pointed out, 2000 wasn't bad because it had the worst 1st pick... it's because as a whole, the 2000 draft was utterly terrible, and almost wholly without talent. So invoking Kenyon as the #1 pick isn't much of a claim, when he was #1 in such an awful year.

As to the broader question. You assess a GM on results, because they have access to information and resources you don't have. When something goes bad in retrospect, you judge them on it. It is no response for you to tell me "but who would you have picked?!". I'm a fan with a full time office job who doesn't have the time, resources or experience to make these decisions.

it is a completely legitimate response. You assert that the won't be a top 3 player without saying who would be. That's completely horrible and you should feel really bad about it.

also leonard should not have gone top 5

[AnaheimRoyale]

I gave examples of players who are looking better so far, several pages ago. I can't see the future unfortunately, nor do I pretend to off one summer league game...

[AnaheimRoyale]

If we're just going off Summer league games (which everyone here is with MKG... one game in fact), then the Rockets alone have at least 2 players who look better or as good so far. The book on Drummond or Beal is not written yet, and Lillard has definitely looked better than MKG thus far. Sure, it's too early to tell, but to dismiss him is silly, he's looking awesome.

You drafted this guy #2 overall, not 5 or 6 or 7. The standard is different,

[vorbis]

repeating yourself is not the same thing as making sense.

[MKG14]

If we're just going off Summer league games (which everyone here is with MKG... one game in fact), then the Rockets alone have at least 2 players who look better or as good so far. The book on Drummond or Beal is not written yet, and Lillard has definitely looked better than MKG thus far. Sure, it's too early to tell, but to dismiss him is silly, he's looking awesome.

You drafted this guy #2 overall, not 5 or 6 or 7. The standard is different,

so you only lillard looked better. That makes MKG #2. Congratulations, you must be soooo clever.

[BigSlam]

repeating yourself is not the same thing as making sense.

Made me laugh.

[AnaheimRoyale]

Anthony Davis hasn't played yet, and based off the summer league I'm alot more impressed with Jeremy Lamb and Royce White... now that's just a bunch of meaningless summer games (and MKG has 1), so it may mean nothing at all, or mean alot, but I don't feel confident MKG ends up as the #2 player in this draft at all, and I'm not sure he'll finish up in the top 5. That's something to be concerned about, not dismissed by fans chanting MKG's name.

[MKG14]

Anthony Davis hasn't played yet, and based off the summer league I'm alot more impressed with Jeremy Lamb and Royce White... now that's just a bunch of meaningless summer games (and MKG has 1), so it may mean nothing at all, or mean alot, but I don't feel confident MKG ends up as the #2 player in this draft at all, and I'm not sure he'll finish up in the top 5. That's something to be concerned about, not dismissed by fans chanting MKG's name.

if you don't have something intelligent to say, don't say anything at all. I asked you for names that you thought would be ahead of him. You claim 5 players will be better, which 5?

[AnaheimRoyale]

I am touched by your faith in my psychic abilities. Go invest all your money in government bonds today. I have a feeling about that stock...

[MKG14]

I am touched by your faith in my psychic abilities. Go invest all your money in government bonds today. I have a feeling about that stock...

You have already made claims. Specifically that he won't be a top 5 player. That means you think 5 other players will be better. Which are the five players you think are better?

If there isn't a list in your post, don't respond.

[AnaheimRoyale]

Where did I make that claim? Quote me, please.

[SWedd523]

but I don't feel confident MKG ends up as the #2 player in this draft at all, and I'm not sure he'll finish up in the top 5. That's something to be concerned about, not dismissed by fans chanting MKG's name.

I am very concerned.

Very concerned AnaheimRoyale doesn't think he'll finish top 5 in his class.

[Elden Payton]

As to the broader question. You assess a GM on results, because they have access to information and resources you don't have. When something goes bad in retrospect, you judge them on it. It is no response for you to tell me "but who would you have picked?!". I'm a fan with a full time office job who doesn't have the time, resources or experience to make these decisions. No fan posting here should. Personally I'd have traded down, and then it would have depended who was available... I guess I'd have looked at T-Rob or Harrison or Drummond at #4, based off my fan perspective... none of which is relevant to whether the pick was good or bad.

A pick can be "ok", and still be a terrible pick for a franchise. The Bosh pick was pretty good, except that they passed on Wade. The Felton pick was understandable... but you really would have been better off with Bynum. The Beasley pick made sense for the Heat in 08 it seemed... but in retrospect they should have taken Love. You judge GM's on results, on seeing ahead of the curve, not "it made sense at the time". If I was a Bobcats fan, I'd be furious if we had the #2 pick in a draft, and got maybe the 5th best player. It's the same reason the Leonard pick is so great for the Spurs, because he went 15, but he should have gone top 5. Asset management... get the best out of your assets.

Honestly you seem like you know nothing about basketball...

For the bolded why the hell do you post on Realgm?? A lot of us do have jobs you know and families, we take the time to research and discuss because obviously we are basketball junkies.

When you go to other teams boards and come off as extremely ignorant and obnoxious of course you will get called out...especially when obviously you have no perception of basketball at all.

That third paragraph(second that I've quoted) is horrible...it's easy to look like a genius in hindsight, Wade exceeded expectations by far...extremely so...Bosh was the right pick for the Raptors at the time and they wouldn't regret it aside from him leaving in free agency...I don't know if you watched basketball at the time but Bynum was an extreme reach at ten...when you are the Lakers you can afford to take that chance and Felton was fresh off an NCAA Championship and was a PR move obviously...Beasley was a freak in high school and college and was a legit threat for number one pick, he has more talent than 90% of the NBA but it's his mental state that has stopped him from fulfilling his potential. Love took two seasons before he was even starting and what success has he led his team to??

As for the Kawhi pick the highest he was mocked was six to Washington where he should have been taken, then again if he went at six and averaged 8/5 he'd be slaughtered.

Kawhi isn't a result of great management by the Spurs but horrible management by the Pacers.

The end.

[amcoolio]

The only player I would consider at #2 besides MKG in a after summer league redraft is Damien Lillard. But we have enough short offensive players already.

MKG is better pro basketball player than Beal, Barnes, Waiters, Robinson, Ross, Drummond, and Rivers....all of whose teams would trade their rookie for MKG in an instant.

It really sucks that Cho and Dunlap kept MKG out of the last four games even though he was 100%, but the season will be here soon enough

[AnaheimRoyale]

When you go to other teams boards and come off as extremely ignorant and obnoxious of course you will get called out...especially when obviously you have no perception of basketball at all.

You have yet to point out anything I've said which is ignorant.

That third paragraph(second that I've quoted) is horrible...it's easy to look like a genius in hindsight, Wade exceeded expectations by far...extremely so...Bosh was the right pick for the Raptors at the time and they wouldn't regret it aside from him leaving in free agency...I don't know if you watched basketball at the time but Bynum was an extreme reach at ten...when you are the Lakers you can afford to take that chance and Felton was fresh off an NCAA Championship and was a PR move obviously...Beasley was a freak in high school and college and was a legit threat for number one pick, he has more talent than 90% of the NBA but it's his mental state that has stopped him from fulfilling his potential. Love took two seasons before he was even starting and what success has he led his team to??

All of which goes to show you can justify almost anything by saying "it looked good at the time", and downgrade everything else by saying "nobody could have seen that coming". There's a reason teams like the Thunder and Spurs consistently draft well, and why so many of their picks come as surprises to commentators, because if doing the smart thing was obvious, everyone would do it. I'm not sure any Spurs pick has been correctly identified since 1997. As for the Thunder, they got alot of criticism for taking Westbrook and Harden (among others). I actually remember on my mock I had Bynum at #10, but that's not the point. Front offices have information and resources we can only dream of, they should be held to a higher standard than "media pundits were on their side". When they pick the wrong guy, of course it counts against them.

As for the Kawhi pick the highest he was mocked was six to Washington where he should have been taken, then again if he went at six and averaged 8/5 he'd be slaughtered.

Kawhi isn't a result of great management by the Spurs but horrible management by the Pacers.

The end.

I don't want to derail the thread, I really don't care if people prefer Kawhi or MKG at this stage in their careers, but you should remember the following context for Kawhi:
a) he is getting starters minutes on a team who just won the equivalent of 62 games, the fact he is getting minutes on that team of vets is impressive, because rookies hurt your ability to produce wins in the short term,
b) his numbers per 36 look even better, and as his playing time gradually increased as the season went, we're likely to see him play closer to 36 mpg this season.
c) He was primarily utilised as a defensive man and spot up shooter, because he was coming on to a team with alot of weapons. This year (and in future years) he's going to be asked to do more and more. In the 2 summer league games we just saw him have, where he was asked to look for his own shot more, he looked awesome. After 2 games the Spurs decided he'd shown them his offensive game, and to rest him and let the other guys show what they could do.

There's a reason people are excited about Kawhi, and comparing him to young Shawn Marion, which involves looking beyond "8/5!". Kobe's rookie line was 7.6ppg and 1.9rpg... it didn't mean he was going to suck though.