We "Don't" Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread

SeanBobcats · Post #361 » by **SeanBobcats** » Sun Dec 3, 2017 5:55 pm

catch20two wrote:The Donovan Mitchell to Malik Monk comparisons are unfair. Mitchell is getting to play trial and error basketball in Utah with Snyder while Monk is on a extremely short leash for mistakes here with Clifford.

Mitchell started the season with several 1-7 shooting games and even had a 3-21 shooting game. He’s getting the green light to play his game and a long leash to make mistakes.

Life for Monk hasn’t been the same ever since we squandered that 15-point lead in the 4th against the Knicks that was the 3rd straight loss in a 6-game losing streak. By the way Monk had 21 points in that game on 47% shooting.

You see, in Utah veteran savvy proven scorers like Rodney Hood and Alec Burks come off the bench while Donovan Mitchell starts. Hood leads the team in scoring and still comes off the bench.

I don’t even know if Utah is even trying to win games but they still got a better record than us and they’re over .500. A lot of this boils down to coaching and Clifford is incompetent.

The difference between Mitchell and Monk though is that Mitchell is actually a plus defensively while Monk is the opposite. I do still think Monk should be playing backup PG over MCW though

mrknowitall215 · Post #362 » by **mrknowitall215** » Sun Dec 3, 2017 7:44 pm

SeanBobcats wrote:
catch20two wrote:The Donovan Mitchell to Malik Monk comparisons are unfair. Mitchell is getting to play trial and error basketball in Utah with Snyder while Monk is on a extremely short leash for mistakes here with Clifford.

Mitchell started the season with several 1-7 shooting games and even had a 3-21 shooting game. He’s getting the green light to play his game and a long leash to make mistakes.

Life for Monk hasn’t been the same ever since we squandered that 15-point lead in the 4th against the Knicks that was the 3rd straight loss in a 6-game losing streak. By the way Monk had 21 points in that game on 47% shooting.

You see, in Utah veteran savvy proven scorers like Rodney Hood and Alec Burks come off the bench while Donovan Mitchell starts. Hood leads the team in scoring and still comes off the bench.

I don’t even know if Utah is even trying to win games but they still got a better record than us and they’re over .500. A lot of this boils down to coaching and Clifford is incompetent.
The difference between Mitchell and Monk though is that Mitchell is actually a plus defensively while Monk is the opposite. I do still think Monk should be playing backup PG over MCW though

This is where I'd argue that Mitchell's defense haven't even been that great, or for a better use of words, not even good at all. It's all conjecture based on the reputation that preceded him in college. It doesn't hurt that he's a tough kid as well, that also helps amplify the perception. Mitchell has been tolerable defensively, certainly better than Monk, but he's still not a "plus defensively". Based on RPM, Mitchell isn't a plus offensively nor defensively. What's helping Mitchell's case is that he's getting ample opportunity and his coach is putting him in the best position to succeed

Monk still has some ways to go and he's 2 years younger than Mitchell. Mitchell is playing better than Monk without a doubt, but I wouldn't be quick to judge who's going to have the better peak or career based on their first 20 games in the NBA in different situations on different teams

Post #363 » by **JDR720** » Sun Dec 3, 2017 9:33 pm

I'd still take Monk over Mitchell.

He is the more talented of the two. they're per 36 is actually quite similar

monk:
pts-15, ast-4, rebs-3, FG% 35%, 3pt% 33%
mitchell- 20, 4, 4, 40%, 37%

Benjamin Linus · Post #364 » by **Benjamin Linus** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 9:13 am

I would 100% take Monk over Ball. Still blows my mind this guy was taken 2nd overall in a super deep draft.

catch20two · Post #365 » by **catch20two** » Tue Dec 5, 2017 9:50 pm

Might need to send Monk down to the G-League for a few games just so he can remember what it feels like to put the ball in the hoop again rather than have him warm to bench for bums like MCW and watch his rookie 2nd round counterpart Bacon get minutes over him.

Braggins · Post #366 » by **Braggins** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 1:59 am

Yeah, im starting to not like Monk glued to the bench because MCW and Bacon are also awful and we're getting beat anyways. MCW is straight terrible and Bacon just doesnt really do anything well right now and is also not ready. Id rather go with the player with the most upside who can at least occasionally have big scoring nights.

316Hornets · Post #367 » by **316Hornets** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 2:08 am

Braggins wrote:Yeah, im starting to not like Monk glued to the bench because MCW and Bacon are also awful and we're getting beat anyways. MCW is straight terrible and Bacon just doesnt really do anything well right now and is also not ready. Id rather go with the player with the most upside who can at least occasionally have big scoring nights.

We're actually 4-0 when Monk plays 1 minute or less.

316Hornets · Post #368 » by **316Hornets** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 5:21 am

JDR720 wrote:I'd still take Monk over Mitchell.

He is the more talented of the two. they're per 36 is actually quite similar

monk:
pts-15, ast-4, rebs-3, FG% 35%, 3pt% 33%
mitchell- 20, 4, 4, 40%, 37%

Better check tonights game. 31 points, 5 steals, 50% fg, 5/12 from 3... this dude is on fire

catch20two · Post #369 » by **catch20two** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 5:28 am

Yea Mitchell’s game has been unlocked by Snyder. Offensively he’s a far cry from the player I remember at Louisville.

Braggins · Post #370 » by **Braggins** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 7:31 am

316Hornets wrote:
Braggins wrote:Yeah, im starting to not like Monk glued to the bench because MCW and Bacon are also awful and we're getting beat anyways. MCW is straight terrible and Bacon just doesnt really do anything well right now and is also not ready. Id rather go with the player with the most upside who can at least occasionally have big scoring nights.

We're actually 4-0 when Monk plays 1 minute or less.

Pretty sure that is too small a sample size to be anything more than coincidental. Monk and Bacon both have super small roles when they play and Bacon actually has the worse box+/- of the two (bbref). Even if Monk were significantly worse, if the difference between our team being functional is whether or not we play Bacon over Monk then we aren't a very good team anyways and should probably be more focused on player development.

Post #371 » by **yosemiteben** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 4:37 pm

Think that was a response to your comment that we're getting beat anyways.

snaltonj · Post #372 » by **snaltonj** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:47 pm

Can someone explain to me why we are not giving Malik Monk more playing time? I know you could say that his size is an issue, but I don't really feel like that's the case. We are not doing well this year so why not give him a chance. We have seen glimpses of what he can do offensively. Look at what happened when Utah gave Donovan Mitchell and chance, he is thriving. I don't think MItchell is better than Monk. Thoughts?

Post #373 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:52 pm

Because he can't shoot or play D right now.

CatgutStitches · Post #374 » by **CatgutStitches** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:18 pm

Yeah, its straight up about D right now...as terrible as MCW is offensively, Monk is just as bad defensively. He's always going to be a streaky shooter so I dont even think thats it. Once he settles down a bit and the game slows down he will get better...plus eventually we will have no chance of the playoffs and it wont matter, we will give him a shot then.

I dont get all the Mitchell love...Im sure if we gave Monk minutes and a full on green light with no other offensive weapons he could throw up some 40 point games too...Sure he's further ahead defensively but hes a good bit older too. Time will tell I guess.

316Hornets · Post #375 » by **316Hornets** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:36 pm

It's been brought up countless times, but to me it's pretty obvious. Monk is too much of a liability at this point in time to be given significant playing time. He does seem to be progressing slowly and will probably get more chances as he lives up to his shooting potential. But as it stands, Monk ranks 6th from last in field goal percentage for attempts greater than 5.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #376 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:43 pm

Personally I think that his shooting would be getting a bit less streaky with consistent minutes. Not saying he's earned them here yet.

Post #377 » by **fatlever** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:55 pm

i know its early, but i have 0 faith in monk at this point, now or going forward. i just don't see it. 2 years from now he'll still be far far behind mitchell and probably many others drafted in his range. praying he'll look better with different coach and more spacing in 2-3 years.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #378 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:39 pm

Just MHO, but I think that one of Monk's biggest issues was not having the summer to adjust to the league. Because of his injury he had no summer league and no on the court practice with teammates/staff. On top of that he's young and potentially slotted to play a position that takes longer to learn than any other in the NBA. Guy is also being tasked with Defense first when his real talent is on the other end.

On a regular bad team he would be out there playing anyway even on nights where he made mistakes. That really helps the young guys. Kemba looked really bad at times in his first 3 years ... and I'm not saying that Monk is like Kemba, just that it's normal for even guys with real talent to look super bad. It's just normally these guys have a chance to play out of the mistakes & Monk hasn't had that. Instead he gets a couple of minutes and yanked as he screws up. As a result he tries way too hard in the small number of minutes he has.

I'm not sure if Monk will ever match Mitchell, but the two are in vastly different situations.

CatgutStitches · Post #379 » by **CatgutStitches** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:03 pm

Completely agree. Im not worried about him at all for the future. Hes clearly not ready right now but thats perfectly reasonable given his situation. We knew he was bad defensively when we drafted him, and hes clearly pushing on offense due to his limited role. Its very clear the game hasnt slowed down for him yet, but that will happen as he gets more comfortable.

People saying Mitchell is clearly going to be the better player going forward are just knee-jerking. Its all up in the air, but I still love Monk's tools. To be honest Ive been very impressed by his court vision and passing. Like everything else he does hes a bit rushed but the potential is there to be a PG IMO. His handle has been loose but effective also, if he can tighten everything up look out.

euphorbus · Post #380 » by **euphorbus** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:17 pm

CatgutStitches wrote:To be honest I've been very impressed by his court vision and passing.

As have I. He has also impressed me with his speed down the court, quickness, and willingness to feed teammates. He and Dwight Howard get along great. I just do not think he should be playing point guard in games right now, but off guard alongside Kemba Walker. We know he can get hot, but consistency will come with experience, which he needs, say 10-12 minutes per game.